Shaft Diameter Differences

I also find a thicker shaft more forgiving. It's not just me. Others in this thread have experienced it. As have my wife and friends.

I don't know the exact scientific reason, but the results are real, repeatable and experienced by many. There is definitely something going on here.

I suspect it has something to do with the thinner shaft being slightly more difficult to stroke straight for beginners and intermediate players. But I cannot really say. My knowledge of physics and human physiology is very limited.
 
ronscuba said:
I also find a thicker shaft more forgiving. It's not just me. Others in this thread have experienced it. As have my wife and friends.

I don't know the exact scientific reason, but the results are real, repeatable and experienced by many. There is definitely something going on here.

I suspect it has something to do with the thinner shaft being slightly more difficult to stroke straight for beginners and intermediate players. But I cannot really say. My knowledge of physics and human physiology is very limited.
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yeah, that's what I would say from having watched + played with tip size. If you are a 4 or lower on APA, a significantly smaller tip will expose weakness in your stroke and you will shoot worse. If you are above a 6, it probably makes no difference, and to some 5s it does, some it doesn't.

But for the original poster, the difference between 13.2 + 12.75 is pretty minimal vs 13.2 to 11.75. figure 1/2 a mm is only around a 3-4% difference. Its going much smaller than that where you really see it, going to 11.75 is an over 11% difference. So I doubt you'd have much hardship moving to the 12.75, which I wasn't so clear on earlier. But you may want to check out who you know at your local pool hall, and find someone with a standard pro taper 12.75 tip to see how it feels shooting a few balls. Or local billiards store.
 
With a shaft smaller than 12.75mm I can't get a really tight closed bridge. The shaft will have some room to wobble, which defeats the purpose of a closed bridge.
 
TSW said:
With a shaft smaller than 12.75mm I can't get a really tight closed bridge. The shaft will have some room to wobble, which defeats the purpose of a closed bridge.
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TSW,

Have the smaller tips you've tried been on pro taper or conical/European taper shaft. I personally do not like the rubbing friction on the fleshy parts ofa tight closed bridge. But with a conical/European taper the back & forward strokes can feel loose but at contact & through the CB it tightens up. Most 'standard' small tips are on conical/ European taper shafts.

Regards,
 
ENGLISH! said:
TSW,

Have the smaller tips you've tried been on pro taper or conical/European taper shaft. I personally do not like the rubbing friction on the fleshy parts ofa tight closed bridge. But with a conical/European taper the back & forward strokes can feel loose but at contact & through the CB it tightens up. Most 'standard' small tips are on conical/ European taper shafts.

Regards,
Click to expand...

I've tried both and still prefer a standard-sized tip (and pro taper, FWIW). I like the cue to be tight in my bridge all the way through the stroke. I think it helps me keep the cue on line for power shots. I can understand not liking the rubbing friction, however. Baby powder is a necessity on humid days.
 
ronscuba:
I also find a thicker shaft more forgiving. It's not just me. Others in this thread have experienced it. As have my wife and friends.

I don't know the exact scientific reason, but the results are real, repeatable and experienced by many. There is definitely something going on here.

I suspect it has something to do with the thinner shaft being slightly more difficult to stroke straight for beginners and intermediate players. But I cannot really say. My knowledge of physics and human physiology is very limited.
Click to expand...
EasyEJL:
yeah, that's what I would say from having watched + played with tip size. If you are a 4 or lower on APA, a significantly smaller tip will expose weakness in your stroke and you will shoot worse. If you are above a 6, it probably makes no difference, and to some 5s it does, some it doesn't.

But for the original poster, the difference between 13.2 + 12.75 is pretty minimal vs 13.2 to 11.75. figure 1/2 a mm is only around a 3-4% difference. Its going much smaller than that where you really see it, going to 11.75 is an over 11% difference. So I doubt you'd have much hardship moving to the 12.75, which I wasn't so clear on earlier. But you may want to check out who you know at your local pool hall, and find someone with a standard pro taper 12.75 tip to see how it feels shooting a few balls. Or local billiards store.
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TSW:
With a shaft smaller than 12.75mm I can't get a really tight closed bridge. The shaft will have some room to wobble, which defeats the purpose of a closed bridge.
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The different feel of a smaller shaft, especially with a conical taper, could be a distraction until you're accustomed to it - maybe enough to make you miss more shots, at least temporarily. I use a small conical shaft with an open and closed bridge, don't notice the size or taper any more and find it to be more accurate.

I don't think a short term comparison is reliable. I'm sure players who use smaller shafts don't miss more generally than players who don't - if they did smaller shafts wouldn't be trending.

pj
chgo
 
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TSW said:
With a shaft smaller than 12.75mm I can't get a really tight closed bridge. The shaft will have some room to wobble, which defeats the purpose of a closed bridge.
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I wasn't aware that bridge should be really "tight". I thought it was just supposed to stop if from lifting up too much. Am I misinformed fellow AZ'ers?
 
Jeff M said:
I wasn't aware that bridge should be really "tight". I thought it was just supposed to stop if from lifting up too much. Am I misinformed fellow AZ'ers?
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I think a loose bridge is pretty useless. It should definitely eliminate horizontal movement, a bit of vertical is fine, but it should be relatively tight.
 
charlieeeh said:
I think a loose bridge is pretty useless. It should definitely eliminate horizontal movement, a bit of vertical is fine, but it should be relatively tight.
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I didn't mean to imply something really loose, just not "really tight". Thanks for info.
 
Patrick Johnson said:
So all those pros who use an open bridge are doing it wrong?

With a good stroke a tight bridge isn't necessary unless a loose one makes you nervous.

pj
chgo
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Pro's vs. Joe's. I'm a Joe. My stroke is not good enough to effectively use an open bridge on a draw shot or any shot involving a hard hit.

Maybe my flawed stroke is also a reason I find thicker shafts more forgiving.
 
ronscuba said:
My stroke is not good enough to effectively use an open bridge on a draw shot or any shot involving a hard hit.
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I think your stroke would have to be pretty horrible to make an open bridge noticably less effective.

Maybe my flawed stroke is also a reason I find thicker shafts more forgiving.
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A thicker shaft is presumably higher squirt than a thinner one, and that could make it a little more forgiving (because the higher squirt compensates a little better for small stroke errors). But I'm also guessing that you interpret what you experience through the lens of your expectations, self-fulfilling your prophecy to a degree.

pj
chgo
 
Thin and stiff is the magic formula.

Thin and not stiff, can get really ugly sometimes.

Maybe someone can chime on on why some some thinner shafts that people have taken down themselves, or have had some cue maker or cue repairman take down, "break down" on high power shots sometimes. (wood stability, diameter, or taper issues presumably)

Where they are fine at slow and medium speeds, but feel like you are playing with a wet noodle on high power shots where you miss absolutely everything, because the force of the shot and weight of the cueball are causing the shaft to bend way way more then if the shot was done at a more reasonable speed.

I am not talking about thin after market shafts for sale.
They pretty much have set standards for stability IMO.

Just wondering if someone can explain when a shaft becomes unplayable due to shaft flexibility being dependent on shot speed, and the inconsistency that can cause.

Just like when Oscar Dominguez gave up on that needle he used to use, for precisely this reason, opting for an after market shaft that had more stability.
 
Any stroke shot can be made with an open bridge. Snooker players have demostrated this time and again.

That said, in pool, there must be some advantage (or perceived advantage) to the closed bridge. I can't think of a single pool player who doesn't use the closed bridge on some shots. Most tellingly, snooker players who move full-time to pool tend to adopt the closed bridge for certain shots (e.g., Allison Fisher), so clearly they think there is some benefit.

I like using the closed bridge on power shots. It makes me feel like I have more control. Maybe it's all psychological. I do notice that when I'm in dead stroke, I use an open bridge more frequently (although not exclusively). Not sure why that is. No matter what, if I use a closed bridge, I want it to be tight all around. Otherwise I'll just go to the open bridge and get a better sight line.
 
SUPERSTAR said:
Thin and stiff is the magic formula.

Thin and not stiff, can get really ugly sometimes.

Maybe someone can chime on on why some some thinner shafts that people have taken down themselves, or have had some cue maker or cue repairman take down, "break down" on high power shots sometimes. (wood stability, diameter, or taper issues presumably)

Where they are fine at slow and medium speeds, but feel like you are playing with a wet noodle on high power shots where you miss absolutely everything, because the force of the shot and weight of the cueball are causing the shaft to bend way way more then if the shot was done at a more reasonable speed.

I am not talking about thin after market shafts for sale.
They pretty much have set standards for stability IMO.

Just wondering if someone can explain when a shaft becomes unplayable due to shaft flexibility being dependent on shot speed, and the inconsistency that can cause.

Just like when Oscar Dominguez gave up on that needle he used to use, for precisely this reason, opting for an after market shaft that had more stability.
Click to expand...

I had to sell a predator 314 Cat that had been 'juiced' sanded down. It was great in close quarters, 1/2 table or less, but on a 3/4 to full table shot it felt like playing with an old wooded arrow. Not only that, but with english on those longer shots the ball would swerve way more than any deflection/squirt. That is why I sold it. I did not want to 'completely' retrain my 'feel'.

Regards,
 
TSW said:
Any stroke shot can be made with an open bridge. Snooker players have demostrated this time and again.

That said, in pool, there must be some advantage (or perceived advantage) to the closed bridge. I can't think of a single pool player who doesn't use the closed bridge on some shots. Most tellingly, snooker players who move full-time to pool tend to adopt the closed bridge for certain shots (e.g., Allison Fisher), so clearly they think there is some benefit.

I like using the closed bridge on power shots. It makes me feel like I have more control. Maybe it's all psychological. I do notice that when I'm in dead stroke, I use an open bridge more frequently (although not exclusively). Not sure why that is. No matter what, if I use a closed bridge, I want it to be tight all around. Otherwise I'll just go to the open bridge and get a better sight line.
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What I've noticed in the transition from snooker to pool is the difference in ball weight. When using a power stroke I've found there to be more SHAFT deflection in pool when using an open bridge. A tight closed bridge for me, reduces this somewhat. That being said, the only time I find my self using a closed bridge is when I'm hampered cueing around a ball. Its got to the stage where my bridge choice isn't a concious decision, it just happens. I have real issues on extreme draw shots with a closed bridge, my fat fingers won't allow me to get down low enough on the CB.

Has anyone tried using a closed bridge on an ash snooker cue? Besides the obvious size difference in shaft thickness the grain of the wood doesn't allow me for a smooth stroke with a tight closed bridge. It kind of snags on the grain.
 
TSW said:
Any stroke shot can be made with an open bridge...That said, in pool, there must be some advantage (or perceived advantage) to the closed bridge.
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In 'The Hustler', when Burt asked Eddie about the open bridge, after the broken thumbs, Eddie estimated that his game was only about 80% with the open bridge, meaning off 20%.

I would have to guess that came from Willie. but have not read the book so I don't know.

I use a closed bridge on all low CB contact shots & an open bridge for most High CB contact shots. I want to make sure that the cue stays low on low shots & I generally don't mind if it comes up a bit on high shots. So...I'm using it for vertical control rather than horizontal.

I have seen some bad hooking strokes even with a closed bridge. One still can apply BHE while using a closed bridge.

Just my $0.02.
 
Pidge said:
When using a power stroke I've found there to be more SHAFT deflection in pool when using an open bridge. A tight closed bridge for me, reduces this somewhat.
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My shaft jumps out of my open bridge fairly often - I've learned not to notice it. Since the CB is gone before it happens, it doesn't affect the shot and doesn't make me reluctant to use any speed or any kind of spin.

..the only time I find my self using a closed bridge is when I'm hampered cueing around a ball. Its got to the stage where my bridge choice isn't a concious decision, it just happens.
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Both of these statements are true for me too.

I believe the "performance" differences between open and closed bridges are all psychological.

pj
chgo
 
Patrick Johnson said:
My shaft jumps out of my open bridge fairly often - I've learned not to notice it. Since the CB is gone before it happens, it doesn't affect the shot and doesn't make me reluctant to use any speed or any kind of spin.


Both of these statements are true for me too.

I believe the "performance" differences between open and closed bridges are all psychological.

pj
chgo
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My shaft jumps away every now and again too, and like you said, the CB is long gone. Fairly recently my stance has become forward weighted. It was a concious choice and it really drives the shaft into an open bridge so the shaft doesn't jump out near as often.

I agree with the performance differences being psycholigical and a person should go with what gives them the most confidence.
 
Patrick Johnson said:
I think your stroke would have to be pretty horrible to make an open bridge noticably less effective.

pj
chgo
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???

Since I hit draw and power shots noticeably better with a closed bridge than open my stroke is horrible ? Guess it is because you say so.
 
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