Shaft Edge Alignment (Identifying the correct Perception in CTE Pro One)

pablocruz said:
I've thought about this! I personally do not find this good for CTE/Pro-One! You are taking a guesstimate of the ghost ball position! That is not what Pro-One is about! Pro-One is about Aiming Angles to get to the shot line. Cue ball and object ball angles ( the angle your cue makes connecting to the shot line) decreases with distance. As well deflection angles increase with distance. This is what makes Pro-One unique with the slight over cut built in.
This is why I stay away from picking spots on the ball to hit. Pro-One is Superior!!
Click to expand...


your just confused my friend.

guesstimate? how can that be when I assigned discrete perception points & shaft edges?
and it is by common sense that you only use Shaft Edge Alignment on near-shots, not a cue length or further.

guesstimate of the ghost ball position?
Click to expand...

When pocketing an object ball to a specific pocket, Ghost ball stand behind perfectly of the object ball.

A ghost ball can never be "guesstimate" if you know exactly where you're going to visualize it.

May be your just confused my friend... Those perception points are just Zones, you don't aim at zones, you aim on what that zone is equivalent to (Perception).

I could not even comprehend what this means:
This is why I stay away from picking spots on the ball to hit. Pro-One is Superior!!
Click to expand...


I'm a pro one user same us you, proud as you.

Again as I've said before, if Stan says it's accurate then its a compliment to pro one, if he says it needs refinement therefore it wouldn't be detrimental to pro one, if he says it's a failure then it comes down to the discretion of the user whether Shaft Edge Alignment helps them or not.

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I agree that pablocruz didn't really understand your post. He seems to think it is another aiming system, when in reality its just to identify what visuals to use. Once you identified the visual with the shaft method, you go back to pure CTE pro one.

I haven't had the chance to practice it yet but I printed out the guide and its waiting in my case!

Sent from my LT30p using Tapatalk
 
UpMySleeves said:
I agree that pablocruz didn't really understand your post. He seems to think it is another aiming system, when in reality its just to identify what visuals to use. Once you identified the visual with the shaft method, you go back to pure CTE pro one.

I haven't had the chance to practice it yet but I printed out the guide and its waiting in my case!

Sent from my LT30p using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

Yes.

Well I do think that his intention is pure and not ill-mannered. It's just that he's a proud Pro One User just like me.

Thanks
 
Se7en6ix said:
your just confused my friend.

guesstimate? how can that be when I assigned discrete perception points & shaft edges?
and it is by common sense that you only use Shaft Edge Alignment on near-shots, not a cue length or further.



When pocketing an object ball to a specific pocket, Ghost ball stand behind perfectly of the object ball.

A ghost ball can never be "guesstimate" if you know exactly where you're going to visualize it.


I could not even comprehend what this means:


==========================================================
Click to expand...

It's not your perception points or shaft edges, it begins as soon as you put the tip to the cloth. You have no specific point of reference. I will stick to centers and edges.
I don't think you have a clear definition of "Near Shots." For example a half ball hit, the aiming angle changes roughly 5 degrees from a 1/2 foot away compared to 3 feet.
Good job on the diagrams though!!
 
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Great I'll print out the updates. It's also good to mention to CTE beginners that for a left cut, if you get a 15°perception with a left sweep, it can be interchanged with a 30°perception and right sweep. I'm not sure how that would be incorporated in your system for obtaining visuals, other than just knowing it and using the most comfortable visual for that specific cut.

Sent from my LT30p using Tapatalk
 
Real CTE represents a very new and different way of seeing CB OB relationships. The CTE perceptions are hugely important because they visually/connect a player to the table during ball address.

Determining correct perceptions is something very different and odd at first but as the system is really learned, choosing perceptions become automatic .

What se7en6ix has presented is a guide that may help some in learning to ascertain the correct perceptions. WHILE THE GUIDE IS NOT PERFECT IT IS GOOD ENOUGH TO THROW IN THE OLD TOOL BOX FOR USE AS NEEDED. This guide is primarily for the practice table. NOT COMPETITION.

Manual pivoting is STILL the ultimate all-around tool for absolute validity in learning and determining perceptions.

The presented guide in no way changes CTE PRO ONE. It could lead to a misread perception in some cases....but that will happen regardless.

The idea is to move forward with an education of one's visual intelligence so as to be able to objectively connect to the right angles of a 2 x1 table. Many miss out learning real CTE because they wrongly think all this perception stuff just can not be .


Stan Shuffett
 
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Se7en6ix said:
Pro One is an objective aiming system.

Have you ever experienced being in a dilemma on which perception to use for a certain shot? Stan advises us that we should test it out so that we can charge it to experience. But as user of Pro One, we want a definitive procedure on how to identify this aim-points. Should we wait for our experience feed us the best and accurate perception to use? The answer is YES, but wouldn't it be fun, and exciting if we know a method that can exactly identify what perception is to use for a given shot? I'm sure it would, because it did for me.

I believe that a perception can be identified by either or all of the following:

  • Diamond Calculation (OB & CB Distance, OB distance to Rail/Pocket, CB Distance to Rail/Pocket)
  • Shaft Edge Alignment (This Topic)

But Today I’ll discuss the easiest method, the Shaft Edge Alignment. This method will surely save those whose still in the first step of learning Pro one, those who are confused/dilemma in which perception to use, and those proficient in Pro-One as they can add this technique for teaching or… well just knowing it. Hehehe :thumbup:

Let's Begin

SHAFT EDGE REFERENCES

Our Cue Shaft will be the deciding factor on which perception is to use when coupled with Object Ball Perception Points. There are two simple things to remember:

  1. 1. Left Cut Shots MEANS we’ll use the Left Shaft Edge (LSE)
  2. 2. Right Cut Shots MEANS we’ll use the Right Shaft Edge (RSE)

*Use the EDGE of the shaft which is identical to the direction of the cut.

See Image Below

View attachment 335425

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CUE PIVOTS

  1. 1. Align your cue behind the object ball (as close as possible, but don't get fouled) through the center of the intended pocket or aim.
  2. 2. Now pivot your cue while maintaining the cue tip at rest until we reach the center of our cue ball via specific Pool Cue/Cue Shaft Edge (in this example, it’s the Right Edge because it’s a right cut.)

See Image Below

View attachment 335426

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CONNECTING WITH OBJECT BALL PERCEPTION POINTS

Now that we know how to align, pivot and identify which shaft edge is to use, we now identify which aim perception is to be used for a given shot.

OBJECT BALL PERCEPTION REFERENCES
The image below shows and object ball marked at the quarters with 15, 30, 45 and 60 Degrees.

See Image Below

View attachment 335427

The following images below show how the object ball is divided by Zones (15°, 30°, 45° and 60°).
Again the deciding factor here is the edge of your shaft (Left or Right)

View attachment 335430

FOR LEFT CUTS If the Left Edge of your shaft falls:

  1. 1) Within 30 & 15 (up to the left quarter of the object ball), then you are to use a 15° Perception (AIM POINT A)
  2. 2) Within 45 (1 mm inside the actual 45) & 30, then you are to use a 30° Perception. (AIM POINT B)
  3. 3) Exactly at the right outer edge (45°) the then you are to use a 45° Perception. (AIM POINT C)
  4. 4) Outside (right) of the object ball, then that’s a 60° Perception (1/8 Overlap).

FOR RIGHT CUTS If the RIGHT Edge of your shaft falls:
  1. 1) Within 30 & 15 (up to the right quarter of the object ball), then you are to use a 15° Perception (AIM POINT C)
  2. 2) Within 45 (1 mm inside the actual 45) & 30, then you are to use a 30° Perception. (AIM POINT B)
  3. 3) Exactly at the left outer edge (45°) the then you are to use a 45° Perception. (AIM POINT A)
  4. 4) Outside (left) of the object ball, then that’s a 60° Perception (1/8 Overlap).

=========================================================================

SAMPLES (Right Cuts to the Side Pocket) :grin-square:

View attachment 335431

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And that’s it! It’s EASY, SIMPLE & ACCURATE.
Additionally this method can be also used for banking especially if you have knowledge about diamond systems (Zero X Kicks/Banks).
Although testing each perception is advantageous and true, there are times that you can’t wait for experience to kick in.

Thanks to Stan for bringing Pro One. I Hope you (PRO1 users) enjoyed this post.
Click to expand...

Excellent post. This is what we need more of.
 
pablocruz said:
It's not your perception points or shaft edges, it begins as soon as you put the tip to the cloth. You have no specific point of reference.
I don't think you have a clear definition of "Near Shots." For example a half ball hit, the aiming angle changes roughly 5 degrees from a 1/2 foot away compared to 3 feet.
Good job on the diagrams though!!
Click to expand...

No Specific Points?

have I not mentioned in my previous posts that:

Place your cue tip behind the object ball through the centre of the intended pocket.
and the closer the better just don't get fouled.

if your thinking that I'm visualising a contact point to the actual object ball, then your wrong.
the only reason a cue tip rest on the cloth is for the easiness of pivoting. Well if can float your cue tip while pivoting then good luck...


thanks for the compliment.
 
stan shuffett said:
Real CTE represents a very new and different way of seeing CB OB relationships. The CTE perceptions are hugely important because they visually/connect a player to the table during ball address.

Determining correct perceptions is something very different at first but as the system is really learned, choosing perceptions become automatic .

What se7en6ix has presented is a guide that may help some in learning to ascertain the correct perceptions. WHILE THE GUIDE IS NOT PERFECT IT IS GOOD ENOUGH TO THROW IN THE OLD TOOL BOX FOR USE AS NEEDED. This guide is primarily for the practice table. NOT COMPETITION.

Manual pivoting is STILL the ultimate all-around tool for absolute validity in learning and determining perceptions.

The presented guide in no way changes CTE PRO ONE. It could lead to a misread perception in some cases....but that will happen regardless.

The idea is to move forward with an education of one's visual intelligence so as to be able to objectively connect to the right angles of a 2 x1 table.

Stan Shuffett
Click to expand...

That's Stan guys! he's the law :grin:
 
nice

Se7en6ix said:
A quarter of a ball away behind the object ball, or even 2mm as long as you don't hit the object ball with your tip (The Closer the better, just don't get fouled hehe).

I have been using this Shaft edge alignment prior to any aiming system that i know of now so that I could perceive that contact point easily..

I have SEE-system in my arsenal, I only use that when I'm unable to reach a certain shot that my body could not sweep properly.
Some could argue that it could be a rip-off of SEE-system's angle identification by cue stick. Well they have the right to do so, coz it's very close.

I designed it specifically for pro one (probably another person on another part of the world have the same idea, but it just so happens that I posted it first)


To answer your question, I do not read SEE-System to make it adapt to Pro One Perceptions.
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and since you mentioned the word "adapt" maybe one day or in the near future... "I'll post SEE-System using Pro One Visual Sweeps"
but as of now I want this Shaft Edge alignment to be perused and give feedback by Pro1 Users, especially Stan for he is the only one I know that could cement this idea that it works or not

Thanks
Click to expand...

A lot of people have use a stick behind the ball, I have for years, not for what you have done. If it is something that you feel works for your situation, good
 
Se7en6ix said:
No Specific Points?

have I not mentioned in my previous posts that:

Place your cue tip behind the object ball through the centre of the intended pocket.
and the closer the better just don't get fouled.

if your thinking that I'm visualising a contact point to the actual object ball, then your wrong.
the only reason a cue tip rest on the cloth is for the easiness of pivoting. Well if can float your cue tip while pivoting then good luck...


thanks for the compliment.
Click to expand...

OK I have a seperation of 5 diamonds, I put my cue down and pivot,
I am Within 45 (1 mm inside the actual 45) & 30 what perception
would YOU say I use?
 
pablocruz said:
OK I have a seperation of 5 diamonds, I put my cue down and pivot,
I am Within 45 (1 mm inside the actual 45) & 30 what perception
would YOU say I use?
Click to expand...

Since this "system" of obtaining visuals is best suited for practice and not competition, as Stan mentionned, why not try both either the 45 and the 30 degrees. Since this is on the limit of 45, you might need to play with the inside/outside sweep in order to thin out or thicken the shot

When you practice those "limit" perceptions while practicing, you'll get more comfortable with them when actually competing.
 
pablocruz said:
OK I have a seperation of 5 diamonds, I put my cue down and pivot,
I am Within 45 (1 mm inside the actual 45) & 30 what perception
would YOU say I use?
Click to expand...

30 Degree Perception
But as stan says Aimpoint B fails on 54/55 inches apart.

We (you & me) Pro One users both know the value of distance so therefore you can follow my advise to use 30 Degree P, or even and much better follow stan's advise on distance for he knows best.
But as far as opinion goes, what if I tell you I can pocket that via 45 Degree Perception or 1/8 Overlap with an extended visual sweep.

Please read the all the post my friend, the answers are there.
especially the conversation between me and stan.
 
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UpMySleeves said:
Since this "system" of obtaining visuals is best suited for practice and not competition, as Stan mentionned, why not try both either the 45 and the 30 degrees. Since this is on the limit of 45, you might need to play with the inside/outside sweep in order to thin out or thicken the shot

When you practice those "limit" perceptions while practicing, you'll get more comfortable with them when actually competing.
Click to expand...

:D :thumbup:
 
UpMySleeves said:
Since this "system" of obtaining visuals is best suited for practice and not competition, as Stan mentionned, why not try both either the 45 and the 30 degrees. Since this is on the limit of 45, you might need to play with the inside/outside sweep in order to thin out or thicken the shot

When you practice those "limit" perceptions while practicing, you'll get more comfortable with them when actually competing.
Click to expand...

I find myself pretty comfortable with Pro-One.I've been playing with it for 4 years, have taken lessons and yes i own the DVD's. When you have a clear path to the object ball
there aren't too many limitations.
 
Se7en6ix said:
30 Degree Perception
But as stan says Aimpoint B fails on 54/55 inches apart.

We (you & me) Pro One users both know the value of distance so therefore you can follow my advise to use 30 Degree P, or even and much better follow stan's advise on distance for he knows best.
But as far as opinion goes, what if I tell you I can pocket that via 45 Degree Perception or 1/8 Overlap with an extended visual sweep.

Please read the all the post my friend, the answers are there.
especially the conversation between me and stan.
Click to expand...

You could be half right if you change your sweep to the opposite direction. But i
would guess it would be a 15 degree perception.
 
pablocruz said:
I find myself pretty comfortable with Pro-One.I've been playing with it for 4 years, have taken lessons and yes i own the DVD's. When you have a clear path to the object ball
there aren't too many limitations.
Click to expand...

Great then! You have ben using it far longer than i have. If you're already comfortable obtaining visuals without any other trick or system, that's perfect don't change a thing. Se7en6ix's idea is to help out beginners like myself and to add something to the "tool-box" of experienced users like yourself. Nothing forces you to use it and it doesn't change anything on Stan's complete method.

Sent from my LT30p using Tapatalk
 
Se7en6ix said:
30 Degree Perception
But as stan says Aimpoint B fails on 54/55 inches apart.

We (you & me) Pro One users both know the value of distance so therefore you can follow my advise to use 30 Degree P, or even and much better follow stan's advise on distance for he knows best.
But as far as opinion goes, what if I tell you I can pocket that via 45 Degree Perception or 1/8 Overlap with an extended visual sweep.

Please read the all the post my friend, the answers are there.
especially the conversation between me and stan.
Click to expand...

If you can do that then your modifying the system to fit your
own personal needs and not using Pro-One.. By introducing
ghost ball and tips to the cloth, you are using a modified
version of something but it's not Pro-One.
If someone was truly using Pro-One there would be no
reference point off the object ball. Never!!
You have done a good job, it just has holes in it. it's
incomplete reference material.
 
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