Shaft Forgiveness

DeeDeeCues said:
All other things being equal, the ferrule will be significantly heavier on a thicker shaft. Might affect something...can't remember what that might be, tho. Do you have any ideas, genius?
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This thread and my comments in it have been about tip/ball contact precision and “forgiveness”, Einstein.

But OK, let’s change the subject so you can make sense - how much more squirt do you think the extra 21% of mass creates? How “huge” is it?

pj
chgo
 
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Patrick Johnson said:
This thread and my comments in it have been about tip/ball contact precision and “forgiveness”, Einstein.

But OK, let’s change the subject so you can make sense - how much more squirt do you think the extra 21% of mass creates? How “huge” is it?

pj
chgo
Click to expand...

Per Dr.Dave, it'll create about 21% more deflection.
 
I have (had actually) two identical construction PureX HXT shafts, with the same tip model on both. One was the 11.75, the other was a 12.5 (custom size through Seyberts order). The 11.75 had a bit less deflection but I could not pocket balls as well with it and it felt more dead, I needed to hit harder to get the same cueball action out of the shaft. I also had a harder time shooting slower spin shots with it. I think the smaller tip and shaft made it shoot off the side of the cueball more and give back a bit unpleasant feedback.

While I can't give you the physics explication as to why this was, I can tell you that just going to a smaller diameter shaft made a difference in playing.

I also own a Predator Z3 shaft, that I can play with just fine and no accuracy issues vs a larger diameter Revo that is a 12.4 or several other shafts that are about 12.2-12.5 that I have.
 
DeeDeeCues said:
Ummm...10%? 21% if we start talking bending strength...


Anybody who argues that ten or fourteen percent is a small amount really needs to evaluate this in other ways.

If your body fat went up by ten percent, would your doctor claim it was insignificant?

What would you do if your boss offered a fourteen percent raise? Complain that it was insignificant?

Ten percent in grades can mean the difference between ivy league and community college.

I really don't think that shaft diameter had anything to do with inherent accuracy, but it is asinine to argue that ten percent is insignificant.
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This is not good logic.

10% of something insignificant is still insignificant is the point.

Let’s say 10 people die from some made up crazy disease. And you spend 200 million dollars to find a way that saves 10%.

You just spent 200 million to save one person when you could have spent 200 million to save hundreds another way.



So, I will state again, 10% of shaft width/diameter us *absolutely* insignificant when considering precision.

Please don’t take posts so far out of context in an attempt to say you’re right or “gotcha.”
 
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DeeDeeCues said:
Ummm...10%? 21% if we start talking bending strength...


Anybody who argues that ten or fourteen percent is a small amount really needs to evaluate this in other ways.

If your body fat went up by ten percent, would your doctor claim it was insignificant?

What would you do if your boss offered a fourteen percent raise? Complain that it was insignificant?

Ten percent in grades can mean the difference between ivy league and community college.

I really don't think that shaft diameter had anything to do with inherent accuracy, but it is asinine to argue that ten percent is insignificant.
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And again, it depends.

If I’m making $40k/yr, I’m not going to tell him no, but $215 extra on a pay check every two weeks isn’t going to get anyone excited.

But if I make $100k/yr, $14k per year, $500/check is all of a sudden something.

If someone pays 10% tax on $1mil, and another pays 25% on $100k….

$100k vs $25k in taxes.


Your examples only further my point. Small things require *BIG* changes to matter. In this subject, it’s needs to be a large linear change, not a % change.
 
vapoolplayer said:
And again, it depends.

If I’m making $40k/yr, I’m not going to tell him no, but $215 extra on a pay check every two weeks isn’t going to get anyone excited.

But if I make $100k/yr, $14k per year, $500/check is all of a sudden something.

If someone pays 10% tax on $1mil, and another pays 25% on $100k….

$100k vs $25k in taxes.


Your examples only further my point. Small things require *BIG* changes to matter. In this subject, it’s needs to be a large linear change, not a % change.
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An extra $400 some a month is equal to being able to buy a nice new car or two nice used cars without having to take money away from something else. Pretty exiting to me I think :)
 
vapoolplayer said:
And again, it depends.

If I’m making $40k/yr, I’m not going to tell him no, but $215 extra on a pay check every two weeks isn’t going to get anyone excited.

But if I make $100k/yr, $14k per year, $500/check is all of a sudden something.

If someone pays 10% tax on $1mil, and another pays 25% on $100k….

$100k vs $25k in taxes.


Your examples only further my point. Small things require *BIG* changes to matter. In this subject, it’s needs to be a large linear change, not a % change.
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Bs. If you are making 40k, you likely have zero disposable income. That means you would suddenly have 4k disposable every year.
 
vapoolplayer said:
This is not good logic.

10% of something insignificant is still insignificant is the point.

Let’s say 10 people die from some made up crazy disease. And you spend 200 million dollars to find a way that saves 10%.

You just spent 200 million to save one person when you could have spent 200 million to save hundreds another way.



So, I will state again, 10% of shaft width/diameter us *absolutely* insignificant when considering precision.

Please don’t take posts so far out of context in an attempt to say you’re right or “gotcha.”
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This is laughable. 10 or 20% is the same change whether it is on something tiny or something huge. That is why it is called a percentage.

Many of us learned this when we were on short pants.
 
DeeDeeCues said:
This is laughable. 10 or 20% is the same change whether it is on something tiny or something huge. That is why it is called a percentage.

Many of us learned this when we were on short pants.
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You need to go back to school then.

10% is only significant when the 100% the 10% is part of is significant.

Actual values matter. 10% isn’t the same when you’re talking actual applicable and applied numbers.

I could give you 10% of a dollar or I could give you 10% of $100,000 dollars.
 
Which is why we don’t have a flat tax rate.

The ultra rich may only pay single digit % on certain taxes.

But they will pay more in taxes one time than most people actually get paid their entire life.


In the grand scheme a single person’s 25% tax is completely insignificant than a single rich persons 5%.
 
vapoolplayer said:
You need to go back to school then.

10% is only significant when the 100% the 10% is part of is significant.

Actual values matter. 10% isn’t the same when you’re talking actual applicable and applied numbers.

I could give you 10% of a dollar or I could give you 10% of $100,000 dollars.
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This is the stupidest thing I've ever read.
 
If the tip of the cue was flat, you might be able to say the 10% difference matters.

Or, if the 10% intruded into the actual contact contact area of a cue.

It doesn’t. Therefore it’s insignificant change as it doesn’t have an effect on the outcome.
 
You seem to be thinking I’m saying “14% is insignificant” as in just the universal value of 14% is insignificant.

Which, I have no idea why you would begin to assume that. You’re either not thinking logically or looking for “gotcha” moments to argue about.

I’m saying 14% of a 13mm tip is insignificant in the performance of a bad player who can’t hit their target on the cue ball. Which is what this conversation is about.

14% of something else may very well be significant.
 
Here’s my take. Your intention on a shot should always be to contact a specific point on the cueball. If your fundamentals are bad, you won’t hit that spot. The deviation from that point when you lift your head up during the stroke will be the same with a 11mm or a 14mm shaft. The only difference is how much of the stick obscures your view.

However if you miss your target laterally, you will introduce sidespin. If anything, a low deflection shaft will reduce how much deflection you just accidentally added. But it’s hard to play pool if you’re counting on tolerances to save your mistakes. You should strive to just play more accurately.
 
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