Shaft/Tip Diameter Help - Good/Bad Reasons to go smaller

J

JMASTERJ

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Ok so I think 13mm is the default and average? My questions are:


  1. 1. What do most pros use (I know, LOL, but I am curious and I want some type of benchmarks)
  2. 2. Is it true that smaller give better spin action?
  3. 3. But larger is more forgiving on "bad" hits?

I love to work the ball so I am thinking 12.5. Is there any reason this is a horrible move for me? My contact and ball striking is one of my weaknesses, but as I play more I will make that improve. However, I would like to know what TYPE and level of player uses 13 as opposed to 12.5 etc.... so I have an idea of hats going on here.

Thanks!
 
Tip Diameter

I think most accomplished players like 12.80 or smaller. I've seen some go down to 12.50 on the regular. I'm sure you are going to find people that go much lower but if you decide to go that way with Regular Maple things can get whippy with a long pro taper of 14-16inches. I recently played a fellow who was using an OB in 11.25 and I tried out and it was fine because that shaft was made from spliced wood and was very stiff/notwhippy.

Youre right playing with something smaller will make you learn to hit the ball better after awhile sort of like once you can pocket balls on a tight table then the others feel like goal posts instead of pockets.

I won a cue early in my time back into pool this time and its a 13mm stock shaft and I left it that way. Id take breaks from my 12.80 and come back to it from time to time and it like playing a new game.

Its not altogether a bad thing to switch out equipment when youre learning if you learn from it. If youve hit your highest level you need to stick to one cue as much as possible.

JMASTERJ said:
Ok so I think 13mm is the default and average? My questions are:


  1. 1. What do most pros use (I know, LOL, but I am curious and I want some type of benchmarks)
  2. 2. Is it true that smaller give better spin action?
  3. 3. But larger is more forgiving on "bad" hits?

I love to work the ball so I am thinking 12.5. Is there any reason this is a horrible move for me? My contact and ball striking is one of my weaknesses, but as I play more I will make that improve. However, I would like to know what TYPE and level of player uses 13 as opposed to 12.5 etc.... so I have an idea of hats going on here.

Thanks!
Click to expand...
 
Hi,

I play pool with a 9mm ash Cuetec Snooker shaft (Fusion).
You can read more here, including pics: http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=425464&highlight=fusion

I played with a 12,7mm Cuetec R360 before and then a Tiger LD with 12,8mm afterwards.
With neither I was completely satisfied, but I got the bigger diameter because I was afraid that playing got even more complicated with a smaller diameter.

Then out of fun I ordered the Fusion. The first 3 hits where a bit harder but it felt right, then my sighting adjusted and immediately everything was easier than before, due to simple fact that you can see the CB better and as such, can way better see where you'll hit EXACTLY.

If you like to "work the ball" I'd suggest to go to 11,5mm (for example, Katana LD shafts), it will pay off tremendously.
Yes, you will need to work on your stroke A BIT.

Smaller diameter means a little smaller hit area, so your off-center-hit will take a bit more effect or: be more pronounced. But in total it will not give you simply more spin.

As fas as PROs go I'm not sure if this is important.
Mark Gray plays a custom 10,5mm shaft if I'm not mistaken.
Van Boening has a turned down R360, I think he's at 11,5mm or so, judging from the camera angles.
Snooker pros often play 8,5mm, Carom cues usually are 10 to 11mm (and boy, do they hit the CB!).

Again I must contradict the conventional wisdom of trainers: try to play with 2 cues/shafts regularly and change them. Even within your training.
This will tell your mind and hand to focus again and make your stroking mindful. Do the same drills and the same spin, and dont just hit with a gut feeling here.
You shall elect your "main playing cue", yes. But reminding your body to be mindful of what it does will help you move forward.

Try the smaller ones, improve yourself.
Cheers,
M
 
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I prefer ~12.4-12.6mm myself but shaft diameter is more a preference thing than anything else.
I just like that diameter because it looks and feels right for me. The thins shafts are hard for me to play with as they feel so slim and their taper is usually the euro taper type wich I hate to play with.

Try a few different shafts if you can and choose what you like the best, its the only real way to find out about what works for your stroke.

And for the pros shaft question there isnt a definite answer, big Ko for example plays with a full size soutwest shaft, so do many other pro level guys. The average frow what I have read is somewhere near the 12.5mm range. Efren plays with 12.5, so do most Mezz pros. Shanes shaft was told to be at 12.3mm at a TAR interview :smile: Many pros play with the 11.75 OB's and predators. Dont get too caught up on what they use though. They all started with something different and have worked their game up to where it is now and have adapted their equipment accordingly :)
 
You will play better pool if you try NOT to "work the ball". I use to love to see peoples reaction when I would make the cue ball "dance". However, once I got a little older and started using less spin and use center cue ball, (center, center high, and center low) my ball pocketing percentage went way up. I still use inside / outside spin but as little as possible. Use the shaft diameter that feels good in your hand..... Try center ball for a while and you will see good results....
 
:thumbup:


Start out with 13MM. Over the years it will get smaller after some light sanding and cleaning.



.
 
JMASTERJ said:
Ok so I think 13mm is the default and average? My questions are:


  1. 1. What do most pros use (I know, LOL, but I am curious and I want some type of benchmarks)
  2. 2. Is it true that smaller give better spin action?
  3. 3. But larger is more forgiving on "bad" hits?

I love to work the ball so I am thinking 12.5. Is there any reason this is a horrible move for me? My contact and ball striking is one of my weaknesses, but as I play more I will make that improve. However, I would like to know what TYPE and level of player uses 13 as opposed to 12.5 etc.... so I have an idea of hats going on here.

Thanks!
Click to expand...

1. It wouldn't be a decent benchmark, but I believe most play in the 12 range.
2. Yes.
3. Yes, but nothing is less forgiving than a bad aim and stroke.

It's like buying a piece of art. Someone else's opinions generally don't matter as much because you're the one who has to deal with it every morning when you wake up. Experience a few and pick one that you feel most comfortable with.
 
JMASTERJ said:
Ok so I think 13mm is the default and average? My questions are:


  1. 1. What do most pros use (I know, LOL, but I am curious and I want some type of benchmarks)
  2. 2. Is it true that smaller give better spin action?
  3. 3. But larger is more forgiving on "bad" hits?

I love to work the ball so I am thinking 12.5. Is there any reason this is a horrible move for me? My contact and ball striking is one of my weaknesses, but as I play more I will make that improve. However, I would like to know what TYPE and level of player uses 13 as opposed to 12.5 etc.... so I have an idea of hats going on here.

Thanks!
Click to expand...

If your stroke isn't true, smaller is "worse." I would however, recommend practicing with a smaller diameter tip. It will help you in the long run. :cool:
Best regards.
j2
 
While it is true that tip size doesn't matter, in terms of the amount of spin you can get...it is NOT true that a smaller tip delivers a smaller "hit area". The size of the contact between tip and CB remains the same, at 3mm or 1/8" (the size of the red circle on a red circle CB), regardless of tip size, shape or hardness. Nothing changes that, even high speed strokes, where the chalk dust 'blowback' makes it appear to be larger.

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

M.G. said:
Smaller diameter means a little smaller hit area, so your off-center-hit will take a bit more effect or: be more pronounced. But in total it will not give you simply more spin.
Click to expand...
 
JMASTERJ said:
Ok so I think 13mm is the default and average? My questions are:


  1. 1. What do most pros use (I know, LOL, but I am curious and I want some type of benchmarks)
  2. 2. Is it true that smaller give better spin action?
  3. 3. But larger is more forgiving on "bad" hits?

I love to work the ball so I am thinking 12.5. Is there any reason this is a horrible move for me? My contact and ball striking is one of my weaknesses, but as I play more I will make that improve. However, I would like to know what TYPE and level of player uses 13 as opposed to 12.5 etc.... so I have an idea of hats going on here.

Thanks!
Click to expand...

I think 13mm is the old standard and today it's smaller. One reason for that is probably low-deflection shafts, which tend to have smaller diameter shafts as one way to reduce the weight of the shaft.
 
Contrary to popular opinion a smaller tip is not less forgiving. People think that a larger tip size means that a small miss will still make contact closer to the intended point, however it is really the tip radius that would dictate that with a smaller dime radius tip being ever so slightly less forgiving than the flatter nickel radius. The only affect of a smaller diameter is that in in extreme english situations you will reach the miscue limit faster on a smaller diameter tip given the same radius. There is nothing inherently more forgiving to the larger diameter.

I've tried a lot of sizes in regular and LD shafts, from 11.75-13mm. I've found the best fit for myself with a 12mm straight maple shaft. I have 12.25mm and 12.75mm shafts for my cue as well but only ever use my 12mm.
 
BRussell said:
I think 13mm is the old standard and today it's smaller. One reason for that is probably low-deflection shafts, which tend to have smaller diameter shafts as one way to reduce the weight of the shaft.
Click to expand...

A couple of my friends who didn't start playing pool until five or so years ago couldn't believe that cue shafts came standard at 13mm with a few notables over 13mm (Meucci and Joss).


Freddie <~~~ 12.75
 
I've always played (40 yrs)with a 13mm maple. Hated any kind of LD's . Recently i've went to a 12.60 Jacoby LD and love it. With the thinner shaft i can also produce more spin without hitting the ball as hard. Crucial in playing one pocket etc. I think the biggest thing is i can see the cue ball and shot line better. I never thought i would change from a 13mm maple.
 
poolguy4u said:
:shocked:


Make sure you tell your cue repair guy when you have a tip replaced

and have scratches in the ferrule removed.

.
Click to expand...

I'm sorry for not clarifying:

There is no need to sand your shaft for general cleaning purposes.

Removing scratches from a ferrule is a different thing altogether. I'm against sanding shafts on a regular basis in order to clean the cue for many reasons. Mainly, it changes the taper, and opens the pores of the wood to allow more moisture in. Any competent cue repair person will tell you the same. A good cuemaker can dial in his taper machine so well, that the final pass on a shaft is buttery smooth. The only reason to hit it with sand paper after that is to knock the grain down from applying sealant. Everyone operates a bit differently, however.

I do my own tip replacements btw.
 
Smaller shaft isn't going to help with spin. If you want to get more spin with the same cue position, put a smaller radius on the tip. It will make it more sensitive AND keep the hit closer to the center line of the cue.

A bigger shaft has disadvantages shooting a frozen ball off a rail and when putting draw on the ball, simply because to hit the contact point you want on the cue ball you start running into the rail or the slate. With a 13mm+ shaft, you need to get quite close to the table and/or angle the cue down to get a powerful draw, and that can be awkward on the bridge hand. A smaller tip radius actually hurts you a bit with the ball frozen to a rail unless you're looking for lots of follow.

It's all a balancing act. I like a relatively stiff taper and something under 12.75mm for the tip....12.6, maybe...something like that, and always with a dime radius. The tiny little tips you see are usually on low deflection cues, and they're like that just to make the tip end as light as possible. It's nothing to do with spin.

Best I can tell, 12.75 is the new standard. When I was growing up, it was always 13mm. Lots of pros used to play with a 13mm, or even bigger. I think Ray Martin used to play with a 13.25mm. That's the same as my break cue, which feels absolutely ENORMOUS to me.
 
JMASTERJ said:
Ok so I think 13mm is the default and average? My questions are:


  1. 1. What do most pros use (I know, LOL, but I am curious and I want some type of benchmarks)
  2. 2. Is it true that smaller give better spin action?
  3. 3. But larger is more forgiving on "bad" hits?

I love to work the ball so I am thinking 12.5. Is there any reason this is a horrible move for me? My contact and ball striking is one of my weaknesses, but as I play more I will make that improve. However, I would like to know what TYPE and level of player uses 13 as opposed to 12.5 etc.... so I have an idea of hats going on here.

Thanks!
Click to expand...

Bigger feels better in my hands.
 
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