Shaft wood theory - cue manufacturers.

gcmortal

gcmortal

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I'll use McDermott D series as an example. Quality company. A line of cues from plain to fancier, let's say 1000 made a year (regardless of actual #) That's 1000+ shaft blanks. These blanks will have a minimum standard, but I wonder if effort was made to find the very best wood for the upper end cues while a D1 would just get the first one on top.

Most of what I buy is vintage, multiple brands, and I've had meh shafts on the simpler cues, but never on the upper end. Not a huge sample size, but makes me wonder.

Thoughts?
 
Agree that we have a number of quality companies out there, all trying their best to machine perfect shafts from imperfect materials. If the quality of the shaft is that dependent on some characteristic of the wood that can't be completely determined beforehand, we'll continue to produce perfectly manufactured shafts that don't meet the users' needs.

Meanwhile, the carbon fiber shafts can be almost perfectly reproducible, so once a company finds exactly the specifications and techniques for manufacturing those, they can produce as many identical, unvarying units as they want.
 
I'd say if a production house didn't grade their shaft wood and use the best they have for their best cues, They deserve all the grief they get.
Can't tell you what really happens.
Good hard maple is harder and harder to obtain.
No matter who you are.
 
They
3kushn said:
I'd say if a production house didn't grade their shaft wood and use the best they have for their best cues, They deserve all the grief they get.
Can't tell you what really happens.
Good hard maple is harder and harder to obtain.
No matter who you are.
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They grade and group them.
Yup.
I bet they are working on cheaper and more reliable than cf shaft material .
 
gcmortal said:
I'll use McDermott D series as an example. Quality company. A line of cues from plain to fancier, let's say 1000 made a year (regardless of actual #) That's 1000+ shaft blanks. These blanks will have a minimum standard, but I wonder if effort was made to find the very best wood for the upper end cues while a D1 would just get the first one on top.

Most of what I buy is vintage, multiple brands, and I've had meh shafts on the simpler cues, but never on the upper end. Not a huge sample size, but makes me wonder.

Thoughts?
Click to expand...
My $300 McDermott from the 90s is what I judge all shaft wood by. Straight after all these years. The side grain that ends up looking like stacked moons is straight for the entire length. I've seen customs with grain that meanders more than this production cue. I think they used to be very serious about shaft wood. I remember reading somewhere about how they had a huge process to age shaft wood back then and it took years.
 
Most all McDermott cues from say $300 or so and higher, come with low deflection shafts now, G core and I core. Not sure if those shafts actually use sorted wood as they are a laminated construction. I know that the Jacoby Ultra shafts that I use on my Schons supposidly have 128 laminations I think, so I don't think they are as concerned about the best quality of wood. I do know that my standard Schon shafts have a real nice grain structure, unlike some other cues I have with standard shafts. Not only that, the Schon shafts have a crisper hit.
 
muskyed said:
Most all McDermott cues from say $300 or so and higher, come with low deflection shafts now, G core and I core. Not sure if those shafts actually use sorted wood as they are a laminated construction. I know that the Jacoby Ultra shafts that I use on my Schons supposidly have 128 laminations I think, so I don't think they are as concerned about the best quality of wood. I do know that my standard Schon shafts have a real nice grain structure, unlike some other cues I have with standard shafts. Not only that, the Schon shafts have a crisper hit.
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They're laminated or cored one piece?
 
Good catch, had to look it up. I knew the Jacoby was laminated, and thought the McDermott g core was also, but looks as though the g core is cored with a carbon fiber center. I have 3 McDermotts, all with g cores and actually like the shafts, just don't shoot them much as I like a 30" shaft and don't have one yet for them.
 
the top old cue makers had lots of cut out shafts stacked or hanging in their shops for a year or more to age.
the cheap ones just cut them out and turned them. you get what you pay for sometimes.
 
Das Cue-Boot said:
Agree that we have a number of quality companies out there, all trying their best to machine perfect shafts from imperfect materials. If the quality of the shaft is that dependent on some characteristic of the wood that can't be completely determined beforehand, we'll continue to produce perfectly manufactured shafts that don't meet the users' needs.

Meanwhile, the carbon fiber shafts can be almost perfectly reproducible, so once a company finds exactly the specifications and techniques for manufacturing those, they can produce as many identical, unvarying units as they want.
Click to expand...

That should lead to lower costs...............for CF than wood.............
 
MitchAlsup said:
That should lead to lower costs...............for CF than wood.............
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Yes, it should. The profit margins are huge, and should start down as you have better competition. I am not going to be convinced that a simple, radially symmetric stick should sell for three times as much as a tennis racquet and comparably to a bike frame, both of which use several times the material and are several times the production complexity.
 
gcmortal said:
I'll use McDermott D series as an example. Quality company. A line of cues from plain to fancier, let's say 1000 made a year (regardless of actual #) That's 1000+ shaft blanks. These blanks will have a minimum standard, but I wonder if effort was made to find the very best wood for the upper end cues while a D1 would just get the first one on top.

Most of what I buy is vintage, multiple brands, and I've had meh shafts on the simpler cues, but never on the upper end. Not a huge sample size, but makes me wonder.

Thoughts?
Click to expand...
I asked a couple of the manufacturers a couple decades ago on this. I believe McD was one of them, but certainly Viking was. I remember that Viking definitely carefully selecred the best shafts for their top of the line. At the time, their top catalog model was $1000.
 
Spiral wound carbon fiber shafts for archery cost in the neighborhood of $10-$15 fully assembled nocks, points, and vanes. Being spiral wound they have a very uniform spine. Easton even makes one that has a wood grain look. There is no special high dollar tech in making a carbon cue shaft. Heck, some of the pool shafts are still made by wrapping carbon layers and sanding smooth after. There for sure is a flex difference there. Does it matter in pool, who knows, beyond my pool shooting ability. Lot of good shooters still shoot good with a standard wood shaft where there for sure is a spine difference depending on rotation.
Carbon fiber pool shafts are not rocket science, similar construction on similar products have been out for years at very reasonable prices. While they may spend some time on the correct shaft wall thickness per outer diameter, and best ferrule and foam fill, that's nothing to justify the price asked. And yet given all of this, I still bought a Jacoby carbon shaft for myself. I really like it, was it worth what it costs, heck no but I still bought it anyway as I wanted to try it.
 
muskyed said:
Good catch, had to look it up. I knew the Jacoby was laminated, and thought the McDermott g core was also, but looks as though the g core is cored with a carbon fiber center. I have 3 McDermotts, all with g cores and actually like the shafts, just don't shoot them much as I like a 30" shaft and don't have one yet for them.
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The only shafts from McDermott that are laminated are the IPro and IPro Slim shafts. The I2 and I3 shafts are like the GCore, except the Carbon Fiber Rod extends the whole length of the shaft.
 
R-360 vs carbon fiber: After getting a carbon fiber shaft for my cuetec I decided to test my R-360 against against my cf. quite frankly the R-360 out performed the cf, better hit less deflection, and reminded me of a great wood shaft. I talked to svb about the R-360 before he made the switch and he told me he won 2 million dollars with it. Four US 0pens and a resume of wins unmatched by any player of his day. the very soft hit of cf is something to behold but for me its the R-360s all around performance is superior. Just my opinion.
 
From my experience, a shaft should be turned down several times over a period of 6 to 12 months. If in the final turnings the shaft seems to vibrate it will be an indication that it will continue to warp. The best shafts had a more crisp sound when dropped vertically on a concrete floor. Not very scientific but it worked for me.
 
Das Cue-Boot said:
Agree that we have a number of quality companies out there, all trying their best to machine perfect shafts from imperfect materials. If the quality of the shaft is that dependent on some characteristic of the wood that can't be completely determined beforehand, we'll continue to produce perfectly manufactured shafts that don't meet the users' needs.

Meanwhile, the carbon fiber shafts can be almost perfectly reproducible, so once a company finds exactly the specifications and techniques for manufacturing those, they can produce as many identical, unvarying units as they want.
Click to expand...
EXACTLY why I went CF, also temp and humidity do not affect CF
 
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