Shafts and Inserts Questions

[td873]

1) Is there a special technique to making shafts/butts with these types of inserts (and is there a name for it)?
2) Should the insert be the same depth as the hole in the shaft (or does it matter)?
3) Is the shaft insert (sticking out) conical or cylindrical?
4) Would a shaft with a FLUSH insert (Meucci style) damage an ivory joint with the same type of joint as shown below?

On this shaft, the insert is rounded, but there isn't alot of brass showing (but there is some wood showing)

On this shaft, the insert is rounded, but there is MORE brass showing (but there is still some wood showing)

On this shaft, there is almost NO wood showing, and only the insert is showing (but it's not rounded)

Also, how do you get the butt to look like this:

or this

 

[Tommy-D]

> The ones with less brass showing simply have a smaller shoulder,making it necessary to cut a longer tenon in the wood to make it come out the same length. The inserts on this type are generally a little smaller than the tenon diameter-wise too. As far as having rounded edges,that can easily be done with a smooth mill file and some 400 emery cloth. The ones with more visible brass have a larger shoulder,and are generally installed flush to the face of the shaft,and after touching off on the brass with a single point cutting tool,a short tenon is cut by advancing your lathe carriage towards the chuck,.075 to .100 is probably about right,then face it off flat. A secondary tenon is then cut for installation of the joint collar. The picture of the joint with the large pilot hole shows the pin installed. That operation is done late in the process,after installation of the collars but before installation of the pin,and is done by centerdrilling,drilling,and boring the hole not only into the cue,but coming back towards you with the boring bar,reversing the "natural" direction your adjustments must be made in. Practice on operations like this is a must before attempting to do it in an expensive material like ivory,where one slip costs you another 35 dollar joint blank,the time consumed in removing the old one,etc. It also appears that the second joint pic has a chamfered inner edge,this is done with a file,sandpaper,a deburr tool,or a fairly large 60 degree countersink. All parts must be burr-free,to insure solid lockdown. Tommy D.

 

[Hit Man]

Shaft inserts

Thomas, I belive the technique you're describing is called "full pilot". This is where the shaft's wood extends all the way to the end of the brass pilot and creates a compression type fit into the joint of the butt when threaded together.

The other example you have looks like a "half-pilot" or "quarter-pilot" shaft because the shaft's wood does not extend the full length of the brass.

All of these techniques have been used extensively by custom cue makers to give their cues the right feel and fit. It depends greatly on the joint material, i.e. stainless steel, ivory, phenolic, natural wood, ect...

Each type of shaft pilot and joint material used causes a different reaction in the shaft and feedback in the butt and greatly influences the feel of the cue.

Preference to any of these types of piloting is just subjective to what the player wants and what the cue maker has in mind.

Hope I've shed some light! Most of this info I've learned comes from Pete Tascarella who has helped me a lot with cue building knowledge.

Regards, Ralph

 

[Pancerny]

To build joints of this nature also requires accurate machines and machining techniques. When it's made correctly, the pilot will be snug as it threads into the butt, providing much more contact than a flat faced joint and will be inherently stronger.
Mike