Shaping tips

[iusedtoberich]

I would first like to thank Ted and Leonard for all of their information. I have been doing repair work in my area for about 7 years, ranging from tips, ferrules, wraps, joint repair, re-tapering, etc. I have built a great local reputation. However, it has been mostly trial and error for me, and I am thrilled we have two cue-makers whom we can ask questions of.

My first question is very basic. Tip shaping. When I started, I was using my left-hand cutting tool to shape the tips. I would turn my tool post to position the cutter to three different angles, and use the left face of the tool to shape the tip. When I was done, it would have a triangular shape with 3 different angles, which I would then blend into a proper radius with 80 grit sandpaper.

This method worked very well for me, but was slow. I did have some problems with it though. Some of the tips I would shape (only Lepro's at the time) would "explode" on me. What I mean is that during the shaping of the front of the tip, I think my tool was catching and the tip would expand axially and turn into a spring. One way I was able to drastically reduce this occurrence was by only using the harder Lepro tips. The way I test them for hardness (which I don't believe anyone else does like I do) is to sand the back of them using 5 strokes back and forth on 80 grit paper. I can tell by the feel and the amount of material removed which ones are the soft ones and which ones are the hard ones. I also noticed a correlation between the height of the tips and their hardness. If I pick out all the tall ones in a box, they will end up being the hard ones.

This method didn't work well when I started installing layered tips, however. I would often get a few tips that would lose a layer or two upon shaping them. Some would even get a chunk taken out. I switched to a utility knife to shape the tips. I rested its blade on my cutting tool, and used the knife in a scraping fashion to shape the tip. This worked great and was fast for one piece tips, but I still had problems with layered tips de-laminating.

I got a tip from Atlas to grind the edge off of the utility knife blade so that it was flat, like a woodworking lathe scraping tool. I could not believe how well this worked. It cut so much freer than before. And I had no problems whatsoever with layered tips. I did learn however, that I had to keep the blade sharp. I touch up the edge every third or fourth layered tip, just so I am confident it will cut well. This method even worked great on the soft Lepro's that would formerly "explode" on me.

Today, the only tip I have any problems with and that I cringe installing are Elk Masters. When turning the sides to the proper diameter, the tip grows around my tool. It takes me a long time of making many cuts (at the same cutter position) to finally get the tip to the proper diameter. Its also quite difficult to shape the front of the tip. I end up having to do a lot of sanding on these tips.

I know I have said a lot for my first post. My specific questions are: 1. What different methods do you use to shape tips. 2. Do you use any special techniques for soft tips like Elk Masters?

Thanks, and I'll have many more technical questions to ask.

 

[iusedtoberich]

By the way, are we keeping everything in the long thread? I feel it might be more beneficial to start a new, focused thread for each different topic.

 

[Teddy Harris]

I would first like to thank Ted and Leonard for all of their information.
My specific questions are: 1. What different methods do you use to shape tips. 2. Do you use any special techniques for soft tips like Elk Masters?
.

Cutting the sides of the tips and the crown is best achieved with a razor knife. It takes some practice, but is well worth it as once you learn it, you won't destroy tips that otherwise would be destroyed by using turning tools. Works well on elk masters and layered tips as well.

 

[Teddy Harris]

By the way, are we keeping everything in the long thread? I feel it might be more beneficial to start a new, focused thread for each different topic.

No, we are starting new threads regarding different issues. That's the reason I started the thread, "Any Questions?" Different questions need to be separate.

 

[blud]

tips

Cutting the sides of the tips and the crown is best achieved with a razor knife. It takes some practice, but is well worth it as once you learn it, you won't destroy tips that otherwise would be destroyed by using turning tools. Works well on elk masters and layered tips as well.

Ted's correct. I never us a tool [pre-shaped] for shaping tips.
I have always used a razor knife. Using a knife, one can feel the tip with his first cut through the edge of the tip. [ how hard or soft it is].The second cut, you then tuck the sides in and give the tip the more crown than normal.

This meaning, tuck the side in and give it more crown for a softer tip, and less tuck and crown for a harder one. After the player plays for a while the tip will be perfect.
The perfect shape is when you buy the cue. After playing it mushrooms and gets flat. So take my simple steps, and it should work well for you.
blud

 

[iusedtoberich]

Thank you for the replies. I have never tried the knife on the sides of the tip, only the crown. I worry it might grab and damage the ferrule. I will practice the technique on some junk shafts/ferrules. Do you two also remove the cutting edge of the blade and grind it like a scraper blade?

Do you two rest the knife on the top of your cutting tool? Or have you made a special fixture that mounts in your tool-post that is dedicating to supporting the knife.

I use a utility knife. When you say "razor knife" do you mean a utility knife or a single edge razor blade typically used for paint scraping? If the latter, do you have a special holder for it, or do your hold the small razor blade in your hand while shaping the tips?

Blud, I am confused by what you mean when you said "tuck the sides in". Is that simply another way of saying to shape the diameter? Do you mean to taper the sides of the tip so that after playing for a while, the mushrooming will cause the side of the tip to be straight?

Does it matter what order you shape the crown and the diameter in? I currently shape the diameter first, then the crown, then a few final passes on the diameter again (with a wet tip at this stage).

 

[blud]

tuck

Thank you for the replies. I have never tried the knife on the sides of the tip, only the crown. I worry it might grab and damage the ferrule. I will practice the technique on some junk shafts/ferrules. Do you two also remove the cutting edge of the blade and grind it like a scraper blade?

Do you two rest the knife on the top of your cutting tool? Or have you made a special fixture that mounts in your tool-post that is dedicating to supporting the knife.

I use a utility knife. When you say "razor knife" do you mean a utility knife or a single edge razor blade typically used for paint scraping? If the latter, do you have a special holder for it, or do your hold the small razor blade in your hand while shaping the tips?

Blud, I am confused by what you mean when you said "tuck the sides in". Is that simply another way of saying to shape the diameter? Do you mean to taper the sides of the tip so that after playing for a while, the mushrooming will cause the side of the tip to be straight?

Does it matter what order you shape the crown and the diameter in? I currently shape the diameter first, then the crown, then a few final passes on the diameter again (with a wet tip at this stage).

Tucking the side in, means, the base of the tip is say, 13 mm, so when you make your final cut on the dia., of the 13mm, make the razor slant in towards to rim of the crown. I burnish the tip with a piece of leather, wetting the edges a little.
blud