Shoot like the Pro?s?

J

Jason Robichaud

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I have worked on a practice to help rate my game against the pro's and help determine which parts of my play requires the most attention. On my first 10 frames I played at an 81.8% Pro level. Below is the description on my scoring system.

I play 10 frames and track my potting, position, safety play, banking, kicking, break, and jump/masse.

I use the following legend to mark each attempt.
1 = Made or Successful attempt
X = Missed, Fouled
D = Dry break

I played 10 games/frames of 9 ball, below are the scores

POT
Made = 80 Missed = 14 Potting % = 85.1% (80/94)

POSITION
Made = 72 Missed = 6 Position % = 92.3% (72/78)

SAFETY
Made = 10 Missed = 5 Safety % = 66.6%

BANK
Made = 1 Missed = 0 Banking % = 100%

KICKING
Made = 8 Missed = 4 Kicking % = 66.6%

BREAK
Made = 4 Dry = 6 Break % = 40%
Breaking I marked made ball or dry break

JUMP/MASSE Made = 0 Missed = 0 N/A

Overall Rating = 75.1 % which is (pot + pos + safe + bank + kick + break) / 6

I watched matches when pro's played really well and they rated 91.8%. To find what % of a pro level you are playing take your score 75.1% / 91.8% and that is 81.8%.

My score will be over 90% level of pro when I have good tables. I had balls grouped and hard cuts on too many shots.

Hope this helps some people wanting to compare or improve their level of play.
 
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Might want to do this on a table with the extra large pockets the pros use, then might be interesting to see how much your score improves!
 
Quantifying how you rate with the pros? Come on dude. Noone is firing back at you. Spend the hundred clams and mix it up with a tourney, or action. All of that means nothing to me. The spread of the break is funny sometimes. Walk up to Johnny and lay out those stats for him and see what he says.

Oh, you forgot humidity, crowd involvement, bet and music level. Sorry, I just think looking at pool from this perspective is almost funny.
 
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Yea...I think the pros score would be much higher on there favorite practice table than in competition
 
interesting...

interesting idea, but i'd rather give some weights to the parameters of the equation, e.g.
overall rating = (1*pot + 1*position + 0.3*safety + 0.3*bank + 0.1*kick + 0.5*break) / (1+1+0.3+0.3+0.1+0.5)

if you have an open layout you may want to have lower values or even zero out the weights for safety, etc
generally, safeties and kicks have lower expectation of occurence than banks and even lower than pot/position. you have to consider that.
if you have clusters in the rack, you may want to rise up the weight values for safety, kick, bank.
the weight for break also depends on the speed of the cloth. (higher for fast cloth)
the idea is to have a more realistic measure of comparison to the said pros you want to compare with.

i'll give it a try on the weekend when i practice (with pencil and papers oh well).
 
crawfish said:
Quantifying how you rate with the pros? Come on dude. Noone is firing back at you. Spend the hundred clams and mix it up with a tourney, or action. All of that means nothing to me. The spread of the break is funny sometimes. Walk up to Johnny and lay out those stats for him and see what he says.

Oh, you forgot humidity, crowd involvement, bet and music level. Sorry, I just think looking at pool from this perspective is almost funny.
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I am yet to see anyone fire back when I'm at the table and I don't care who is in the chair... I play against myself...I try to stay with what I can and can't do while i'm at the table. I keep these stats to track my current level of play and see which areas I should work on. I think if you tracked your score and posted your potting, position, kicking etc %, you might find something not so funny.

I posted a way for someone to do an accu stats type % only easier format and it doesn't lump it all under shooting %. It shows each part of the game. Many people on here ask about ranking systems etc. This is a good way compare to a pro player. Many people don't have the pro down the street, but the stats are always available to play against.


The next time I play Johnny I will try to remember and ask him what he thinks! I have mixed it up with the pro's... I have beat some lost some.
 
Jason Robichaud said:
I am yet to see anyone fire back when I'm at the table and I don't care who is in the chair... I play against myself...I try to stay with what I can and can't do while i'm at the table. I keep these stats to track my current level of play and see which areas I should work on. I think if you tracked your score and posted your potting, position, kicking etc %, you might find something not so funny.

I posted a way for someone to do an accu stats type % only easier format and it doesn't lump it all under shooting %. It shows each part of the game. Many people on here ask about ranking systems etc. This is a good way compare to a pro player. Many people don't have the pro down the street, but the stats are always available to play against.


The next time I play Johnny I will try to remember and ask him what he thinks! I have mixed it up with the pro's... I have beat some lost some.
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The time I spent analyzing all of the calculations probably should've been spent practicing banking. Just out of curiousity, which ones did you mix it up with?
If you want, I think Johnny's number is still on my cell phone. Since him and Kim opened up in Atlanta, they are pretty accessible. I do miss having him and Tony Ellin, and Coltrain showing up as often as they did. Practicing with those kind of players makes your game better just through osmosis. He lived here for quite a while. He married Tony's niece (the guy who owns Brass Tap) here in town. I just don't think many of those great players spend time analyzing, in detail, runouts versus safes, etc. Maybe they do. Who am I anyway? Maybe they have an eight ahead set for three grand and then go home and break down all of the percentages so they know what to practice.

I just don't understand how to quantify choosing to play safe versus a two way shot, versus a hail Mary. You know?
 
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Jason Robichaud said:
I have worked on a practice to help rate my game against the pro's and help determine which parts of my play requires the most attention. On my first 10 frames I played at an 81.8% Pro level. Below is the description on my scoring system.

I play 10 frames and track my potting, position, safety play, banking, kicking, break, and jump/masse.

I use the following legend to mark each attempt.
1 = Made or Successful attempt
X = Missed, Fouled
D = Dry break

I played 10 games/frames of 9 ball, below are the scores

POT
Made = 80 Missed = 14 Potting % = 85.1% (80/94)

POSITION
Made = 72 Missed = 6 Position % = 92.3% (72/78)

SAFETY
Made = 10 Missed = 5 Safety % = 66.6%

BANK
Made = 1 Missed = 0 Banking % = 100%

KICKING
Made = 8 Missed = 4 Kicking % = 66.6%

BREAK
Made = 4 Dry = 6 Break % = 40%
Breaking I marked made ball or dry break

JUMP/MASSE Made = 0 Missed = 0 N/A

Overall Rating = 75.1 % which is (pot + pos + safe + bank + kick + break) / 6

I watched matches when pro's played really well and they rated 91.8%. To find what % of a pro level you are playing take your score 75.1% / 91.8% and that is 81.8%.

My score will be over 90% level of pro when I have good tables. I had balls grouped and hard cuts on too many shots.

Hope this helps some people wanting to compare or improve their level of play.
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So in 10 frames you missed 14 shots, got out of position 6 times, missed 5 safeties and 4 kicks. If I performed like that I wouldn't compare myself to the pros I would retire.

Did you win a game?
 
You should go through the 100,000 post on here where people ask for help aiming, practicing, position, stroke.................... They all want to get better and play like a pro. Not one of them was a pro asking to be a better pro. I agree, I don't think they will take the time to fill out this chart. They have a practice/schedule that works.

This is for none pro's or people looking to get better and would like to see how they rate against but are not able to play with pro's. It gives the actual % level. a person can then practice the areas that are lowest. This is a practice tool not a money match with Johnny.

P.S. I know a few doctors and have there home numbers.... that doesn't make me a DR.
 
wayne said:
So in 10 frames you missed 14 shots, got out of position 6 times, missed 5 safeties and 4 kicks. If I performed like that I wouldn't compare myself to the pros I would retire.

Did you win a game?
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I just took the table as it lay. I could go down and pick 10 good games. Some games unfold really badly sometimes. this just happen to be 7 outta 10.

I could go down now and miss 0 ball in ten, just depends on table vs safe etc. I could also fill this chart out with the McCready vs McCreesh match and it would be worst than my score... Wouldn't want to base their level of play on that one match. Maybe I should have posted scores with a cherry on top. Only cheating myself though...Sometimes table play tough thats part of 9 ball.
 
Jason Robichaud said:
You should go through the 100,000 post on here where people ask for help aiming, practicing, position, stroke.................... They all want to get better and play like a pro. Not one of them was a pro asking to be a better pro. I agree, I don't think they will take the time to fill out this chart. They have a practice/schedule that works.

This is for none pro's or people looking to get better and would like to see how they rate against but are not able to play with pro's. It gives the actual % level. a person can then practice the areas that are lowest. This is a practice tool not a money match with Johnny.

P.S. I know a few doctors and have there home numbers.... that doesn't make me a DR.
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The difference is... I have played these guys, at least quite a few of them for the cash. Just because I have his number doesn't mean I play like him. You're right, maybe they do have a practice schedule similar. If all of this is in a vacuum, that's great. Do it for five grand and two hundred people watching, with all kinds of side action, and I guarantee you the results are different. If all of that doesn't bother you, then you're well on your way. I just think you posted this so someone would jump up and go, "Wow, great! You're not far off from the pros." Otherwise, I don't see the point. If you're looking for pointers, be specific. I didn't see the list of your "mixing it up." We all can get better. Whatever works for you, go with it. I'd like to play better, too. I'd prefer just to go mix it up with someone under intense conditions. Give the last four to a "wannabe", and get the seven from some who make a livin' at it.

I know my place in the pool environment. You're the one that is comparing himself to the "pros." Hey, by the way, there are quite a few that you'd classify as a pro that post on here. There is no PRO LIST. What's a pro to some, might not be a pro to others. If you play in ten pro events a year, are you a pro?
 
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If I wanted to post something that would get a wow, it wouldn't have been those scores. It was a sample for the calculations. X's and Y'x would make it a little harder.

No pro's available in my area so I have to play against stats to improve or keep playing against people I know I can beat. That is why I did this type of practice, so I don't get lazy thinking I'm playing well beating players that can't shoot. This gives me a mark to hit. I would think others here may have the same problem.

Not looking to compare myself to you or anyone else and say I'm better or as good by the above stats. I posted a gage to judge abilities. Just hoping players looking or wondering how to get better might find something useful in it. I can delete my score if that is what bothers you... I will post made up numbers and rename the thread.

I posted a practice for people. I prefer to look at stats and say... my stats are down on kicking and banking I should go practice that. Rather than, I just lost 10,000$ on a missed bank and kick shot. I should go practice those. If losing money is your way to practice, I am sure there is lots of good practice available.

My access is very limited to the level you mention. I have played Johnny and he went off. missed 2 balls in a race to 9 and hooked me both times. I watched and got better. I played Tony Crosby to hill/hill and lost. He told me I shoot very good. Won against Jeff Kennedy at Joss event, beat Tony Ruberto at Joss event. Won against Matt Krahh at Joss event. I played better at these events, I really like the added pressure with the people watching. I would love to play top guys everyday... You are lucky to do so. Until they show here in Calgary I'm stuck trying to play them on paper. When I get lucky enough to play them on a regular bases, I will then work on the pressure, music, moisture, money... what else was there?
 
Jason Robichaud said:
If I wanted to post something that would get a wow, it wouldn't have been those scores. It was a sample for the calculations. X's and Y'x would make it a little harder.

No pro's available in my area so I have to play against stats to improve or keep playing against people I know I can beat. That is why I did this type of practice, so I don't get lazy thinking I'm playing well beating players that can't shoot. This gives me a mark to hit. I would think others here may have the same problem.

Not looking to compare myself to you or anyone else and say I'm better or as good by the above stats. I posted a gage to judge abilities. Just hoping players looking or wondering how to get better might find something useful in it. I can delete my score if that is what bothers you... I will post made up numbers and rename the thread.

I posted a practice for people. I prefer to look at stats and say... my stats are down on kicking and banking I should go practice that. Rather than, I just lost 10,000$ on a missed bank and kick shot. I should go practice those. If losing money is your way to practice, I am sure there is lots of good practice available.

My access is very limited to the level you mention. I have played Johnny and he went off. missed 2 balls in a race to 9 and hooked me both times. I watched and got better. I played Tony Crosby to hill/hill and lost. He told me I shoot very good. Won against Jeff Kennedy at Joss event, beat Tony Ruberto at Joss event. Won against Matt Krahh at Joss event. I played better at these events, I really like the added pressure with the people watching. I would love to play top guys everyday... You are lucky to do so. Until they show here in Calgary I'm stuck trying to play them on paper. When I get lucky enough to play them on a regular bases, I will then work on the pressure, music, moisture, money... what else was there?
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Fair enough. Pretty sporty with the Crosby match. I guess I am pretty lucky. Dude, you wouldn't believe even the local tourneys. There might be 100 players show up that can string'em together. I work almost 55 hours a week, and play 2-3 days a week now. With two children, my pool goals are quite different than at twenty. I still give trouble to a few myself. Johnny was quoted saying, "You could win the US Open before winning this weekly tournament." That night, there was Tony Ellin, Cliff Joyner, Charlie Brinson, Tony Watson, Johnny Archer, Mike Coltrain, Ron Park, Roger Jackson, Greg Brooks, Ritchie Marshall, Doug Jones, Scott Wright, Harold Dollar, and 48 other players that play "B" and above. Talk about action back in the early nineties! It was ridiculous. The most spot you could get was two games and the eight going to seven. Most, only got one game. That's how strong that weekly tourney was. Best of luck. STAY IN ACTION. Like Tony Ellin used to say, "Learn to outrun the nuts and you'll be feared." Just like Chris Bartrum getting the 8, and 9, playing Alex ten ball. WTF? Amazing. Some of those games sound too good to be true.
 
Pro level

IMHO you should be able to B&R 10 racks in a row, on a consistent basis, in order to be at a professional level.
 
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