Short Draw Shots

D

DrCue'sProtege

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Anybody have any tips on shots where you only have to draw the ball back just a little bit?

Lets say you are straight in, about two diamonds from the OB and you need to draw it back about a diamond, two at the most. I am struggling with this shot lately, either not getting the draw or too much of it.

r/DCP
 
you can adjust by tip placement and constant stroke speed
or
constant tip placement and vary stroke speed
jmho
i am not an instructor
 
DrCue'sProtege said:
Anybody have any tips on shots where you only have to draw the ball back just a little bit?

Lets say you are straight in, about two diamonds from the OB and you need to draw it back about a diamond, two at the most. I am struggling with this shot lately, either not getting the draw or too much of it.

r/DCP
Click to expand...


Duplicate post
 
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DrCue'sProtege said:
Anybody have any tips on shots where you only have to draw the ball back just a little bit?

Lets say you are straight in, about two diamonds from the OB and you need to draw it back about a diamond, two at the most. I am struggling with this shot lately, either not getting the draw or too much of it.

r/DCP
Click to expand...

Are you accurate when you have to draw the cb back more than a diamond or two?

Take a guess... how many times do you think you missed position trying to draw back on those short shots? 5? 10? 15?
 
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Start with a couple of stop shots. When you can stop the cue ball correctly then add a touch more of bottom on the cue ball.

randyg
 
randyg said:
Start with a couple of stop shots. When you can stop the cue ball correctly then add a touch more of bottom on the cue ball.

randyg
Click to expand...

Unless he or she shoots stop shots like I do ---- with maximum backspin and adjustments to the speed for distance.
 
One of the most basic drills is setting the OB near the rail on the last diamond and then putting the CB near the rail at another diamond sitting the shot up straight in and then picking a certain diamond to draw too. After an hour or two of that you should be able to get in a good idea of what you need to change (stroke, striking speed, tip contact point) for where you want the CB to come back too.

I think it's different strokes for different folks along the lines of the method drawing the CB to a certain point. That drill and some experimentation and a little bit of time will probably be your best option to figure out what's going to work for you.
 
FranCrimi said:
Unless he or she shoots stop shots like I do ---- with maximum backspin and adjustments to the speed for distance.
Click to expand...
I like this method too - for everything but one pocket. In one pocket, since you're shooting so many pocket speed shots you have to control the speed of the OB too, so you have to stop the CB (or do whatever else with it) at all speeds and distances.

You might try looking at the CB last (during practice) to improve your tip/ball accuracy.

pj
chgo
 
Patrick Johnson said:
You might try looking at the CB last (during practice) to improve your tip/ball accuracy.

pj
chgo
Click to expand...

I look at the CB last on EVERY shot. Anybody that thinks......oh, nevermind, that's an age old issue.

Thanks for the responses. All of them serious for once. I am going to go and take Tom Rossman's advice here - going to work at it!

r/DCP
 
Patrick Johnson said:
I like this method too - for everything but one pocket. In one pocket, since you're shooting so many pocket speed shots you have to control the speed of the OB too, so you have to stop the CB (or do whatever else with it) at all speeds and distances.

You might try looking at the CB last (during practice) to improve your tip/ball accuracy.

pj
chgo
Click to expand...

Good point about one pocket. That would be the exception.

Banks, too.
 
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DrCue'sProtege said:
I look at the CB last on EVERY shot. Anybody that thinks......oh, nevermind, that's an age old issue.

Thanks for the responses. All of them serious for once. I am going to go and take Tom Rossman's advice here - going to work at it!

r/DCP
Click to expand...

Post back with results and what is working for you. That stufff is always interesting to read.
 
Controlling Draw

Like others have said, constant stroke (speed and follow through) but only vary tip position on the cue ball.

Try to do stop shots 3-5 of them from 1 diamond away. Then try from 2 diamonds away but focus on same stroke speed. Repeat from 3 and 4 diamonds away.

Once you can consistently perform stop shots then vary tip position.


For me - every diamond of distance is 1/4 tip lower. So Stop Shot from 2 diamonds away is 1/2 tip below center. You want to draw the ball back approximately 1 diamond from that same distance - go 1/4 tip lower (so 3/4 tip below center) and stroke the ball the same way you did on the stop shots.

Another Example - I am 3 diamonds away from the ball and want to draw back 2 diamonds. I look at it like 1/4 + 1/4 + 1/4 = 3/4 for the stop shot +1/4 +1/4 more for draw = 1 1/4 tip below center
 
^^ ^ ^ ^ ^

I know he is only trying to help as are most with a plan.

This instructor's lesson is only good if ones 'regular stroke' matches HIS 'regular stroke'.

For your stroke it might be 1.5 diamonds or 3/4 of a diamond that works best for you. It's nice when it matches to exactly one diamond.

We're not machines & not cookies cut from the same cutter.

We each should develop our own 'plan' & that is usually done through feel. PJ started a thread, 'Do you have a Fear of Feel'.

Some vary the tip location with the same force of stroke.

Some cue the ball low & vary the force of stroke.

Others like myself blend a bit of both in that they vary both tip location & speed.

We each have to find our own road map. Also, how often is the CB exactly 1, 2, 3 or 4 diamonds from the OB? Not so often. It can be 1.66 diamonds or 3.33 diamonds.

I think it is wrong to try to make ourselves fit a map or a plan.

We are individuals & as such we have different deep rooted internal structures. We all walk at different comfortable paces. Try walking with someone whose pace is the polar opposites than yours. One will have to modify away from their internal structure for the two to stay side by side. When that is done, one is walking naturally & comfortably while the other is changing & conforming to the internal structure of the other.

Lessons like this one can be good, but IMO, we should not spend a bunch of time trying to conform exactly to the lesson. If so, one might find themselves constantly & forever fighting their internal structure, when it would be so much easier & better to understand how the lesson fits oneself & conform the lesson to their own internal structure.

So the thing to do is to find where your 'regular stroke' with a center hit results in a stop shot. It might be 3/4 or 1.5 diamonds.

Best 2 All,
Rick

PS As to the term 'regular stroke', I have no real idea what is meant by that as every shot on a table is different from the next & I usually have a different intention for each shot. So, what exactly is a 'regular stroke'. For me, it's whatever is called for for the shot at hand. I guess this is more philosophical in nature. I just never considered myself to have a 'regular stroke'.

PPS Feel is your Friend, I think developing that friendship is a good thing to do.
 
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ENGLISH! said:
^^ ^ ^ ^ ^

I know he is only trying to help as are most with a plan.

This instructor's lesson is only good if ones 'regular stroke' matches HIS 'regular stroke'.

For your stroke it might be 1.5 diamonds or 3/4 of a diamond that works best for you. It's nice when it matches to exactly one diamond.

We're not machines & not cookies cut from the same cutter.

We each should develop our own 'plan' & that is usually done through feel. PJ started a thread, 'Do you have a Fear of Feel'.

Some vary the tip location with the same force of stroke.

Some cue the ball low & vary the force of stroke.

Others like myself blend a bit of both in that they vary both tip location & speed.

We each have to find our own road map. Also, how often is the CB exactly 1, 2, 3 or 4 diamonds from the OB? Not so often. It can be 1.66 diamonds or 3.33 diamonds.

I think it is wrong to try to make ourselves fit a map or a plan.

We are individuals & as such we have different deep rooted internal structures. We all walk at different comfortable paces. Try walking with someone whose pace is the polar opposites than yours. One will have to modify away from their internal structure for the two to stay side by side. When that is done, one is walking naturally & comfortably while the other is changing & conforming to the internal structure of the other.

Lessons like this one can be good, but IMO, we should not spend a bunch of time trying to conform exactly to the lesson. If so, one might find themselves constantly & forever fighting their internal structure, when it would be so much easier & better to understand how the lesson fits oneself & conform the lesson to their own internal structure.

So the thing to do is to find where your 'regular stroke' with a center hit results in a stop shot. It might be 3/4 or 1.5 diamonds.

Best 2 All,
Rick

PS As to the term 'regular stroke', I have no real idea what is meant by that as every shot on a table is different from the next & I usually have a different intention for each shot. So, what exactly is a 'regular stroke'. For me, it's whatever is called for for the shot at hand. I guess this is more philosophical in nature. I just never considered myself to have a 'regular stroke'.

PPS Feel is your Friend, I think developing that friendship is a good thing to do.
Click to expand...

You are right that we are not machines and cannot reproduce the exact same stroke every single time. But with practice we can get closer to performing the desired stroke.

The reason why I teach people to not change Tip position AND speed/force is because it makes it easier to learn and improve when you are only changing one variable. If you deliver the same speed stroke and only change tip position then you can find what is repeatable.

As far as feel vs having something to base off from. I've put in hundreds of hours of practice on cue ball control and I truly believe that if I did not practice specifics (a system) I would not have developed as good of a 'feel' for position play. I do not calculate out every single position play and tip position for every shot. If I'm shooting strong then I find I am going completely off from feel, but if I am off a little then I have something to fall back on. IMO Players that are purely "feel" players tend to be the ones that have bigger ups/downs in their gameplay.
 
RWOJO said:
You are right that we are not machines and cannot reproduce the exact same stroke every single time. But with practice we can get closer to performing the desired stroke.

The reason why I teach people to not change Tip position AND speed/force is because it makes it easier to learn and improve when you are only changing one variable. If you deliver the same speed stroke and only change tip position then you can find what is repeatable.

As far as feel vs having something to base off from. I've put in hundreds of hours of practice on cue ball control and I truly believe that if I did not practice specifics (a system) I would not have developed as good of a 'feel' for position play. I do not calculate out every single position play and tip position for every shot. If I'm shooting strong then I find I am going completely off from feel, but if I am off a little then I have something to fall back on. IMO Players that are purely "feel" players tend to be the ones that have bigger ups/downs in their gameplay.
Click to expand...

To each their own & that was sort of the point of my post.

I just see some that spend a lot of time trying to make themselves fit the cookie cutter when it just might not be a good fit & they want to know why they just can't seem to get it right. I think that they would be better off finding a method that fits them instead of trying to force themselves to fit the prescription.

Like I said, how many times is the CB an exact even number of diamonds from the OB. His 'regular' stroke is not the same as everyone's regular stroke (what ever that really is). It's nice when regular equals 1 & one tip equals 2, etc. But in the real world that is just not how it is very often. Weather & humidity come into play too. I'm not an advocate of being a mechanical player. I rarely see a mechanical player that does not labor a lot. It seems to me that they very often get stuck in a rut & can't get out of it so they can move on to playing better.

Some will waste a lot of time trying to make that lesson work, when to me, the time would be better spent finding where their natural stop shot is at ( if they have one) & then develope a feel for that which is more natural to them.

Anyway, all of that is just how I see it & naturally are just my opinions.

Best 2 You & All,
Rick

PS Teachers have to have something to teach. But many times there is more to learn in an apprenticeship program out in the real workplace.
 
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ENGLISH! said:
^^ ^ ^ ^ ^

I know he is only trying to help as are most with a plan.

This instructor's lesson is only good if ones 'regular stroke' matches HIS 'regular stroke'.

For your stroke it might be 1.5 diamonds or 3/4 of a diamond that works best for you. It's nice when it matches to exactly one diamond.

We're not machines & not cookies cut from the same cutter.

We each should develop our own 'plan' & that is usually done through feel. PJ started a thread, 'Do you have a Fear of Feel'.

Some vary the tip location with the same force of stroke.

Some cue the ball low & vary the force of stroke.

Others like myself blend a bit of both in that they vary both tip location & speed.

We each have to find our own road map. Also, how often is the CB exactly 1, 2, 3 or 4 diamonds from the OB? Not so often. It can be 1.66 diamonds or 3.33 diamonds.

I think it is wrong to try to make ourselves fit a map or a plan.

We are individuals & as such we have different deep rooted internal structures. We all walk at different comfortable paces. Try walking with someone whose pace is the polar opposites than yours. One will have to modify away from their internal structure for the two to stay side by side. When that is done, one is walking naturally & comfortably while the other is changing & conforming to the internal structure of the other.

Lessons like this one can be good, but IMO, we should not spend a bunch of time trying to conform exactly to the lesson. If so, one might find themselves constantly & forever fighting their internal structure, when it would be so much easier & better to understand how the lesson fits oneself & conform the lesson to their own internal structure.

So the thing to do is to find where your 'regular stroke' with a center hit results in a stop shot. It might be 3/4 or 1.5 diamonds.

Best 2 All,
Rick

PS As to the term 'regular stroke', I have no real idea what is meant by that as every shot on a table is different from the next & I usually have a different intention for each shot. So, what exactly is a 'regular stroke'. For me, it's whatever is called for for the shot at hand. I guess this is more philosophical in nature. I just never considered myself to have a 'regular stroke'.

PPS Feel is your Friend, I think developing that friendship is a good thing to do.
Click to expand...

I don't agree with most of your comments.
"This instructor's lesson is only good if ones 'regular stroke' matches HIS 'regular stroke'." AND
- If you use this more as a reference and baseline.
As far as the cue ball not being exactly 1 diamond away or 2 diamonds or such... I practice this at the diamond increments, but if the cue ball is close to 1 diamond away I have a very close baseline. I make minor adjustments, say its 1.25 diamonds away so I will go slightly lower than 1 diamond.

When I teach this to students it does take them getting use to at first, but almost all can pick it up pretty quickly and execute regularly. The whole premise of this is to eliminate as many variables as possible.
Example: If you change tip position and cue speed, How likely are you to know the exact speed and tip position to draw the ball back 2 diamonds when you are 4 diamonds away??? You are going to 'feel' it out? but within a few lessons with someone, I can get them to get the cue ball within 1/2 diamond of where they want. After many dedicated practice sessions they will be a lot more comfortable and closer than 1/2 diamond to target landing.

"I think it is wrong to try to make ourselves fit a map or a plan."
you say it is wrong to fit a map or a plan? I don't think the concept is exact on DO THIS or DO THAT, but rather the concept is based on eliminating as many variables as possible.

"PPS Feel is your Friend, I think developing that friendship is a good thing to do."
Feel is part of the game... but you develop feel for every single possible shot on the table and every distance and every possible outcome? What happens on the days you're not 'feeling it'? do you quit and come back the next day?
 
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