Simonis or not Simonis? That is the question.

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Buddha Jones

The Enlightened One
Silver Member
OK, so i got my table home, now I need to put it back together and get cloth for it. I was all set on getting some 760, but as I do wih everything else before I buy I like to research for alternatives, and as luck would have it, i found some, and now I need some input before I decide on what to get. I have been reading some stuff on Championship Cloth that sound interesting, even on this forum as well as other web sites. Some say its too fast, some say its better than Simonis, some say it lasts longer. I know the pro's play on Simonis, and I am pretty sure that is what the bar I play at has. Does anyone here have any input they would like to add? :confused:
 
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i've never played on Championship Cloth, but since most Pro Tournaments are played on Simonis i go with Simonis. why not consider 760 instead of 860?

seems like the 860 on my Gold Crown will soon start to have those little small places where the cloth is starting to "Unravel" just a little. i have a handful of them on my new Electric Blue 860, and its less than 3 months old. i dont recall the 760 doing that i had on another table.

later this year when i Re-Cloth again i am either going with 760, or possibly Championship.

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99.99% of PH's that use Simonis, use 860, which is 30% slower than 760.
The 20 table room I go to has been using Championship for a couple of years, EXCEPT for the two front, action, tables, and he puts 860 on those.
I concur with what you stated in your initial inquiry - Championship, is faster (but not to the same degree difference as 860 vs. 760), and it does get better mileage.
There seems to be a stigma in favor of Simonis that is kinda analgous to the Jap Harley wannnabe vs the true American Iron debate. One is, arguably, a better engineered product, the other, blatantly overpriced, but, the loyalty factor on the other side is so overwhelming, that when faced with the decision, it can be hard top decide to swim upstream.
I put 860 on mine, but, it's in the basement and I think that when I do replace it, I'll go with Championship, figuring, it will roll nearly identical to the 860 in the PH.
 
Buddha Jones said:
OK, so i got my table home, now I need to put it back together and get cloth for it. I was all set on getting some 760, but as I do wih everything else before I buy I like to research for alternatives, and as luck would have it, i found some, and now I need some input before I decide on what to get. I have been reading some stuff on Championship Cloth that sound interesting, even on this forum as well as other web sites. Some say its too fast, some say its better than Simonis, some say it lasts longer. I know the pro's play on Simonis, and I am pretty sure that is what the bar I play at has. Does anyone here have any input they would like to add? :confused:
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GIVE ME SIMONIS OR GIVE ME DEATH
 
You could go with either one and be happy. I had 860 on my table for a number of years and now have Championship Tour Edition on it for the last year and a half. The speed is very similar but the Championship definitely wears better and I put a lot of hours on the table weekly. When I go for my next recloth job, what will it be? I'll go Championship again if that tells you anything.
 
I have 860 too... but the burns from breaks and jumps are really looking bad and worn. And only after 1 yr of play on my practice table.

Does the 760 stuff hold up better? I will consider either 760 or Championship 3030 next time.
 
racer rx said:
I have 860 too... but the burns from breaks and jumps are really looking bad and worn. And only after 1 yr of play on my practice table.

Does the 760 stuff hold up better? I will consider either 760 or Championship 3030 next time.
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I have 760 on mine. It's 3 years old and I just got new cloth to be put on it (760 again). The cloth on my table is still in fair shape and a pool hall would not chnge it out, but I need to have the table professionally leveled as I have reinforced the floor, and I want to add a shim to the pockets (from double to tripple). I have not played on Championship, but I have played on the Gorina T2000 and I did not like that. I like the 760 much better than 860, but I play mostly 14.1 and one pocket, and not 9 ball. 860 may be better for 9 ball.
 
I just recovered with 860 (P.S. NEVER try it yourself.....it SUCKS!!!! get a pro!) I read it is supposed to play faster that 760 but I sure think that the opposite is true. I was beginning to thing my playing balls were the problem.
It does play ok though and cleans up nicely with a vacuum cleaner.
 
Here's my two cents-

Championship and Simonis are clearly different, but the speed of any high quality fabric, as both are, partially involves the installation. It must be stretched and fastened properly in order to accurately define the differences among these clothes.

A number of years ago we tested the speed difference using a speed meter (a small sloping ramp with tracks for the ball to roll down) with these three clothes in the same room, the same table mechanic and used the same ball to test with.

Everything stated on this forum is correct, with one exception. One of these clothes rolled slower in one direction than when rolling in the opposite direction (table length). There seemed to be a direction issue with the nap of the cloth in the way it was manufactured.

I do not want to bad mouth any manufacturer. Besides this apparent flaw may have been rectified by now. But regardless of what cloth you use, have a pro install it, and enjoy it.
PS - IMO it is easier to adjust from fast cloth to slower cloth than it is from slower cloth to fast cloth.
 
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Funk Master said:
I just recovered with 860 (P.S. NEVER try it yourself.....it SUCKS!!!! get a pro!) I read it is supposed to play faster that 760 but I sure think that the opposite is true. I was beginning to thing my playing balls were the problem.
It does play ok though and cleans up nicely with a vacuum cleaner.
Click to expand...

760 is the faster cloth when both are installed correctly.
 
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