Slow-Play Tournament solution

Jude Rosenstock

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
So today, I actually played in a pool-tournament. It was probably the first I've participated in in several months which is really unusual for me. Normally, I play in at least two a month. Anyway, after the event was over for me, I was sitting around, talking to the guys, listening to the same complaints that I've always heard. "This guy is holding up the field. I can't stand playing him. I don't understand why they don't have a shot-clock on him ALL THE TIME!"

Well, it got me thinking. See, you can't have a shot-clock on him all the time because it would exhaust resources. I mean, only an IPT event can afford to have a referee for each match! On top of that, does the shot-clock really prevent slow-play? Personally, I don't care if anyone takes an extended time to look-over a complicated situation. That's perfectly acceptable in my book. What bothers me is when they take their sweet time when the shot is simple. Shots that can take 10 seconds or less to execute can take some players a full 30 seconds (some cases, a minute). Those are the delays I want eliminated as a spectator AND as a competitor.

That's when I came up with a slightly different approach. Instead of micro-managing a match, simply put a cap on its length. For a race to 9, you can allot 90 minutes for the match. If the players report the final score later than 90 minutes after it was scheduled to begin, both players are given a demerit for delaying the event. Three demerits during a single event will put a player on immediate probation which can result in disqualification if it is assessed that he/she is deliberately playing slow. Seven demerits over a span of 15 matches would put a player on probation and can result in banishment from the tour.

I thought of this because I think it's important to eliminate slow-play altogether. It's not just a strain on the players and the room, it's boring even for pool's biggest enthusists and we're at a time when we're trying to draw as many spectators as possible. The shot-clock isn't going to do it. Having a match go to sudden-death is a poor solution and slow-play can be used to create sudden-death. I use the word "probation" because I think prior to taking action, a player would need to be evaluated first. At the same time, this player should be warned that they have been involved in matches that have held up events and by holding up an event, they're not just affecting their opponent, they're affecting EVERYONE.


It's not a perfect idea and perhaps not the best solution but I was wondering what all of you thought.
 
Jude Rosenstock said:
So today, I actually played in a pool-tournament. It was probably the first I've participated in in several months which is really unusual for me. Normally, I play in at least two a month. Anyway, after the event was over for me, I was sitting around, talking to the guys, listening to the same complaints that I've always heard. "This guy is holding up the field. I can't stand playing him. I don't understand why they don't have a shot-clock on him ALL THE TIME!"

Well, it got me thinking. See, you can't have a shot-clock on him all the time because it would exhaust resources. I mean, only an IPT event can afford to have a referee for each match! On top of that, does the shot-clock really prevent slow-play? Personally, I don't care if anyone takes an extended time to look-over a complicated situation. That's perfectly acceptable in my book. What bothers me is when they take their sweet time when the shot is simple. Shots that can take 10 seconds or less to execute can take some players a full 30 seconds (some cases, a minute). Those are the delays I want eliminated as a spectator AND as a competitor.

That's when I came up with a slightly different approach. Instead of micro-managing a match, simply put a cap on its length. For a race to 9, you can allot 90 minutes for the match. If the players report the final score later than 90 minutes after it was scheduled to begin, both players are given a demerit for delaying the event. Three demerits during a single event will put a player on immediate probation which can result in disqualification if it is assessed that he/she is deliberately playing slow. Seven demerits over a span of 15 matches would put a player on probation and can result in banishment from the tour.

I thought of this because I think it's important to eliminate slow-play altogether. It's not just a strain on the players and the room, it's boring even for pool's biggest enthusists and we're at a time when we're trying to draw as many spectators as possible. The shot-clock isn't going to do it. Having a match go to sudden-death is a poor solution and slow-play can be used to create sudden-death. I use the word "probation" because I think prior to taking action, a player would need to be evaluated first. At the same time, this player should be warned that they have been involved in matches that have held up events and by holding up an event, they're not just affecting their opponent, they're affecting EVERYONE.


It's not a perfect idea and perhaps not the best solution but I was wondering what all of you thought.



I like the idea but there are some flaws.........What happens to the poor guy that has to play 3 or 4 slow players in a row, even though he is a quick player? He gets probation because all of his opponents were slow. Then he has to speed up his already quick game and not concentrate and und up blowing a match he should have won.

Well That's just my opinion. Whatcha think?

Tony
 
Mystick Cue Fan said:
I like the idea but there are some flaws.........What happens to the poor guy that has to play 3 or 4 slow players in a row, even though he is a quick player? He gets probation because all of his opponents were slow. Then he has to speed up his already quick game and not concentrate and und up blowing a match he should have won.

Well That's just my opinion. Whatcha think?

Tony


Well, that's what probation is for, to sift out who isn't playing slow. Also, you have to admit, when was the last time you played several slow-people in a row? They likely represent less than 10% of the field (32 players, 3 are likely slow).

Regardless, the real goal isn't to put players on probation or ban them. It's to speed-up their overall play. Hopefully, demerit-distribution would be rare but would have a significant impact.

Those are my thoughts at least.
 
You want to make things equal? Instead of a total time for the match, just use a shot clock. If someone is playing within the allotted time and other players still think it's too slow, tough cookies.

Putting a max time on each pool match will penalize those who play normally. Not fair.

All in all, the timed shot clock in pool, with an extension or two per game seems the best way to go when faced with someone who's taking an inordinate amount of time. And that "inordinate amount of time" needs to be an actual time in seconds for each shot, and not based on someone who is nervous and doesn't like his opponent's or another players pace.

Flex
 
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Jude Rosenstock said:
It's not a perfect idea and perhaps not the best solution but I was wondering what all of you thought.

Only thing I can think of changing the slow play of these players is ostracization and social isolation.of these players.waitress/bar tender should take 30-40 minutes to serve his water/pop/beer.
 
I think you would have to base it on how many games were played and not just a flat 90 minutes. Big difference in length of match between someone winning 9 zip and 9-8. Average 9 ball game is probably 5-7 minutes in length. Many long games are not really because of slow play but because there are a lot of safeties and/or missed shots. At 30 seconds per shot a game takes 4 1/2 minutes.

Jake
 
For those tourneys that dont have the resources for a ref at each table with a stop watch. I suggest the little timer thingy that the guys who play speed chess use. Once your done with your shot you tap the timer and then you are on the clock if you go over the other player gets ball in hand.

gh8st.
 
gh8st said:
For those tourneys that dont have the resources for a ref at each table with a stop watch. I suggest the little timer thingy that the guys who play speed chess use. Once your done with your shot you tap the timer and then you are on the clock if you go over the other player gets ball in hand.

gh8st.


I thought about this. The problem is that unlike chess, players do not have equal time to play. See, in chess, I go, then you go, then I go, then you, etc. In pool, I go, then I go, then I go, then I go, then I go, then you go, then I go, then I go, then I go. I would be penalized for pocketing the majority of balls.
 
jjinfla said:
I think you would have to base it on how many games were played and not just a flat 90 minutes. Big difference in length of match between someone winning 9 zip and 9-8. Average 9 ball game is probably 5-7 minutes in length. Many long games are not really because of slow play but because there are a lot of safeties and/or missed shots. At 30 seconds per shot a game takes 4 1/2 minutes.

Jake


Well, of course. The 90 minutes was just an example. If it were a race to 5, it should be 60 minutes and if it were a race to 11, it should be 120. Of course, skill-level would also play a role. If the majority of your players were high-level amateur and professional, then the match should be shorter. If the majority of your players are beginner to intermediate, more time would be needed.
 
What about a self timer - like in chess matches?

Just a thought. Obviously time would have to be allowed to finish the shot and return to the timer, and no alarms just tracking. This way, you could time the match or time each shot. Thoughts???
 
Just end the match...

I like Jude's idea but I would just end the match after the predetermined time regardless of the score. The only exemption I would allow is if the match happened to be hill-hill.

Just a thought.
 
Vahe said:
I like Jude's idea but I would just end the match after the predetermined time regardless of the score. The only exemption I would allow is if the match happened to be hill-hill.

Just a thought.


I thought about the idea of stopping the match or "sudden-death" and the problem with that is that you're adding an artificial element. You want the match to be played out with the assumption that X number of games are needed to win. The moment you say the match might be stopped, the player who is ahead suddenly can no longer lose assuming he manages his time well. Like in football, clock-management would be as critical as scoring games. No, I think it's critical that the race is completed.
 
42NateBaller said:
Just a thought. Obviously time would have to be allowed to finish the shot and return to the timer, and no alarms just tracking. This way, you could time the match or time each shot. Thoughts???


I'm not sure I understand your post. Can you clarify?
 
For me the current use of shot clocks are unfair, its amazing the errors a shot clock can cause to even the most experienced players under tournament conditions.

For me the answer is a sligt variation on a chess clock. If the match time is one hour each player is given 30 minutes, after each shot the player leaving the table presses the clock and the other guys clock starts ticking down.

Once a players time has run out HE/SHE then goes on a 30 second shot clock until the end of the match.

A device could be built so that once a players time has expired a 30 second clock with an inbuilt 10 second warning beep is called each time the other player leaves the table. Brutal maybe but fairer on the players as it punishes the slow player.
 
Chess clock

In chess tournaments, a clock is used to track player time for moves. They track the total time for a game. A player must complete their moves for the game in a predetermined amount of time (like a 90 minute per game limit per person). There's also a game called speed chess with greatly reduced game limit times.

For pool, the thought would be to track each players time either by the match or by the shot. When it's your shot, hit the clock. When you're done, hit the clock. If you exceed the allotted time, then you should be penalized.
 
42NateBaller said:
In chess tournaments, a clock is used to track player time for moves. They track the total time for a game. A player must complete their moves for the game in a predetermined amount of time (like a 90 minute per game limit per person). There's also a game called speed chess with greatly reduced game limit times.

For pool, the thought would be to track each players time either by the match or by the shot. When it's your shot, hit the clock. When you're done, hit the clock. If you exceed the allotted time, then you should be penalized.


I actually posted earlier in this thread why this wouldn't work. See, in chess, the number of turns at the table is identical. Player A moves a piece then player B moves a piece. In pool, the rotation is simply not like this. Player A shoots 15 balls in a row then Player B shoots one. Hence, a dominant player would be penalized for pocketing the majority of the balls, especially if the discrepancy were huge.
 
The biggest problem with your idea is that someone could get up a few games and then slow down even more to make the match go to the time limit. I think a shot clock would be the best idea for slow players.
 
Jude Rosenstock said:
Well, of course. The 90 minutes was just an example. If it were a race to 5, it should be 60 minutes and if it were a race to 11, it should be 120. Of course, skill-level would also play a role. If the majority of your players were high-level amateur and professional, then the match should be shorter. If the majority of your players are beginner to intermediate, more time would be needed.

This has all the makings of a government run bureaucracy. Who would you make the grand poobah to impose this baloney?

Flex
 
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