Snooker vs Pool players - More fuel for the fire

[TheOne]

LastTwo, you crack me up. Just so I get this straight,

- Drago doesn't count as a converted snooker player because he practised hard!
- Fisher etc. don't count as converted snooker players because they are women?
- Manalo doesn't count because he played some pool, oh and despite most of the world even himself and Efren in interviews, he told you he wasn't a snooker player?

I know I know Im a slow learning but I starting to understand why everyone told me I'm wasting my time LOL

If Ronnie won everything he played in in Novemeber I'm sure you would unearth that he played some carom in his eary teens or he was really born a women LOL

As amusing as you are, there really is nothing any snooker player can do is there that will convince you that:

"its easier for snooker players to convert to pool than visa versa"

(Hey Fred, my AZ wordsmith, did I get that right or did I misplace a word or two?)

 

[Fred Agnir]

"its easier for snooker players to convert to pool than visa versa"

(Hey Fred, my AZ wordsmith, did I get that right or did I misplace a word or two?)

I find it more than amusing that it has been you that has been wordsmithing, and I've been responding to your words. Funny.

I warned you that it didn't seem like you had read everything like you claimed. And then you admit you are now confused as to why we are arguing? We're arguing because you didn't understand the argument. And no, you didn't read like you claimed. And again, this argument would have been done on page two of the Ronnie thread, if you had bothered to actually read it. But you didn't. And you've been passively aggressive towards me from your early posts.

Paraphrasing to follow:

Pinkisntwell saz:"There's no reason to think that pool players could compete at snooker because if they could, they would, given the prize money."

Fred saz:"The reason why they can't compete is because they have to commit to the game, and today's 9-ballers do not have the mentality to make that committment. Many find the game boring."

Pink and I will disagree forever. I'm okay with that, and I'm sure Pink won't lose any sleep over that.

However...

Craig "TheOne" Riley jumps in and saz: "I'll claim I read everything, I won't understand the basic argument, but instead I'll make up Fred's argument, make subtle changes in the words at every turn, misrepresent his idea, lie about his experience, then bold-face my argument later on. I'll back-pedal claiming that everyone else understood what I was saying. When he finally quotes my ill-written fallacies, I'll accuse him of wordsmithing and nitpicking. I'll be passive aggressive, and then get on his case for insinuating that I'm an a-hole. I'll mock him, and chide the fact that he writes words on a written forum, and then ask him why he's been arguing with me for 10 pages."

That sums it up. You've forced me to respond to your untruths about me and my position.

You've made no new points, mostly because you were arguing phantoms. I've never plonked anyone on this board, but your continued untruths and then claiming oblivion leaves me no choice. I do not appreciate being misrepresented.

Good day. I'm sure you won't miss me.

Fred

 

[Fred Agnir]

This is too much of a battleground for a handful of people but I'd sure like to see what Hohmann and Deuel could do in snooker scene if they'd practise hard for 5 years. I think those 2 players are already sound in stroke fundamentals and they could learn the finesse play of snooker.

Me too.

How well they would do in the snooker scene ? Everyone who thinks he has a strong argument on this if they'd succeed or not is talking out of his a$$. It's just not possible to evaluate such thing, putting a finger on something why they would or wouldn't succeed is stupid and foolish. Or maybe I'm just indecisive.

Of course you're right. It's all conjecture as to how they would do. It's also conjecture as to why they haven't done well. As of today, pool players haven't done anything at the professional snooker scene.

Fred

 

[TheOne]

I find it more than amusing that it has been you that has been wordsmithing, and I've been responding to your words. Funny.

I warned you that it didn't seem like you had read everything like you claimed. And then you admit you are now confused as to why we are arguing? We're arguing because you didn't understand that the argument. And no, you didn't read like you claimed. And again, this argument would have been done on page two of the Ronnie thread, if you had bothered to actually read it. But you didn't. And you've been passively aggressive towards me from you early posts.

Paraphrasing to follow:

Pinkisntwell saz:"There's no reason to think that pool players could compete at snooker because if they could, they would, given the prize money."

Fred saz:"The reason why they can't compete is because they have to commit to the game, and today's 9-ballers do not have the mentality to make that committment. Many find the game boring."

Pink and I will disagree forever. I'm okay with that, and I'm sure Pink won't lose any sleep over that.

However...

Craig "TheOne" Riley jumps in and saz: "I'll claim I read everything, I won't understand the basic argument, but instead I'll make up Fred's argument, make subtle changes in the words at every turn, misrepresent his idea, lie about his experience, then bold-face my argument later on. I'll back-pedal claiming that everyone else understood what I was saying. When he finally quotes my ill-written fallacies, I'll accuse him of wordsmithing and nitpicking. I'll be passive aggressive, and then get on his case for insinuating that I'm an a-hole. I'll mock him, and chide the fact that he writes words on a written forum, and then ask him why he's been arguing with me for 10 pages."

That sums it up. You've forced me to respond to your untruths about me and my position.

You've made no new points, mostly because you were arguing phantoms. I've never plonked anyone on this board, but your continued untruths and then claiming oblivion leaves me no choice. I do not appreciate being misrepresented.

Good day. I'm sure you won't miss me.

Fred

LOL, Fred, if had hadn't seen that you have a history on other boards with this then I would probably be upset and spend the time proving it. However the fact that you came up in a google search for Efren and snooker was firstly amusing but actually I now find it quite sad and scary, I now understand why so many people told me to stop "wasting my time".

Unlike yourself I have never called you names, many others have though, not me.

I tried to pin you down to a few points for the benifit of the board and so we could discuss them and refer to them without me having to type them out and bold them repeatedly (and to avoid you correcting every missing word!), however just as thought pages later we couldn't get past that simple task.

Good luck, I'm sure you no doubt will be able to carry this on on other boards and maybe you can even claim this one like you did the others as proving your point LOL

 

[Egg McDogit]

personally, I agree with theone. but it's all speculation and it's entirely possible that some poolplayer will crossover and have some success at snooker. In the meantime, everyone chillout

 

[TheOne]

personally, I agree with theone. but it's all speculation and it's entirely possible that some poolplayer will crossover and have some success at snooker. In the meantime, everyone chillout

Thanks egg, I think most people, even Fred (eventually!) agrred that its easier for a snooker player to convert to 9 ball than visa versa.

As Mjantti, pointed out though, the whether a pool player (and Efren was the name always mentioned, although I threw in Archer from time to time) could convert to snooker is a matter of OPINION. I have said from the start that I don't doubt that they could if they had been bought a snooker cue and played it from an early age. However for reasons that I, Colin and many other posters have stated who understand the current level of world snooker I don't think they could convert now. Mainly because of age, if past SNOOKER CHAMPIONS can't make it into the top 100 players in the world I don't see any reason why a converted pool player could. For the reasons Colin mentioned, mainly money and fame so many kids took up snooker and the barriers of entry now are just TOO HIGH unless you start playing at a very early age. Efren is too old and says himself he's not good enough and neither could he be if he practised from today until the day he dies.

 

[Fred Agnir]

personally, I agree with theone.

By this, I assume you agree with TheOne that it is easier for a snooker player to convert to 9-ball than vice versa. That's fine. You and I aren't that far apart. I've given my reasons many times as to why it would be more difficult for a 9-baller to convert to snooker, but IMO, it's closer to equal than what's been represented.

but it's all speculation and it's entirely possible that some poolplayer will crossover and have some success at snooker.

In other words, you agree with what I was saying, right? This is what I've been saying. The words are still there. Unfortunately, somebody kept twisting my words. I'm sure those that haven't followed the thread now believe that I've said many things that I haven't. I can't chill out when someone misrepresents my position over and over.

Fred

 

[TheOne]

In other words, you agree with what I was saying, right? This is what I've been saying. The words are still there. Unfortunately, somebody kept twisting my words. I'm sure those that haven't followed the thread now believe that I've said many things that I haven't. I can't chill out when someone misrepresents my position over and over.

Fred

I know I hate that aye Fred, I had to resort to repeating it in bold but it still didn't help! I still get people saying I think Snooker players are gods, what about 3 cushion and 1 pocket, or I've said different things bla bla, that's why I tried to pin you down so we could be clear and take it from there. Shame, maybe we could have had a sensible debate then! ;-)


I think the problems that occur with these types of debates is that often there are a multitude of arguments often happening at the same time. Often with one person agreeing and disagreeing with some things that even one person says. In this particular incident I have pretty much repeated two things.

a) I think results show that its easier for snooker players to convert to 9 ball than visa versa, and

b) I don't think a pool player such as Archer or Reyes given any amount of time could break into Snooker elite no matter how much time he practised (even though I don't doubt they could have if they started playing snooker at an early age)

As I and many have pointed out the second point is basically opinion and hard to prove one way or another but I think I can make a pretty good case on why I think its not possible.

I'm not convinced Fred truly beleives a) although it does seem has has come around to this recently. He does however still cites his "boring" excuse as to the reason why more pool players haven't taken up snooker and become rich. As many other people quoted in the original Ronnie thread I think this a ludicrous excuse. The fact that there are many pool and snooker players that hate 8 ball but have already signed up to the IPT totally disproves this IMO. The reasons they have signed up are obvious, a) The Cash, and b) They have a chance to compete in 8 ball on the same table as 9 ball, they couldn't in snooker.

 

[trophycue]

I know I hate that aye Fred, I had to resort to repeating it in bold but it still didn't help! I still get people saying I think Snooker players are gods, what about 3 cushion and 1 pocket, or I've said different things bla bla, that's why I tried to pin you down so we could be clear and take it from there. Shame, maybe we could have had a sensible debate then! ;-)


I think the problems that occur with these types of debates is that often there are a multitude of arguments often happening at the same time. Often with one person agreeing and disagreeing with some things that even one person says. In this particular incident I have pretty much repeated two things.

a) I think results show that its easier for snooker players to convert to 9 ball than visa versa, and

b) I don't think a pool player such as Archer or Reyes given any amount of time could break into Snooker elite no matter how much time he practised (even though I don't doubt they could have if they started playing snooker at an early age)

As I and many have pointed out the second point is basically opinion and hard to prove one way or another but I think I can make a pretty good case on why I think its not possible.

I'm not convinced Fred truly beleives a) although it does seem has has come around to this recently. He does however still cites his "boring" excuse as to the reason why more pool players haven't taken up snooker and become rich. As many other people quoted in the original Ronnie thread I think this a ludicrous excuse. The fact that there are many pool and snooker players that hate 8 ball but have already signed up to the IPT totally disproves this IMO. The reasons they have signed up are obvious, a) The Cash, and b) They have a chance to compete in 8 ball on the same table as 9 ball, they couldn't in snooker.

Hey One~! Fred is a dick~~!!! ...........dont lower yourself to his level.........he seems oblivious to the fact that some of americas greatest players attemted snooker and could not crack the top 100...........never mind the top 10..........he obviuosly does not understand the disciplines of snooker............he seems quite angry at the world .............on another site he claimed he was there when efren played Jimmy and Ronnie.............that also makes him something else~~!!!!...............The One.........I dont know you..............but I respect your opinions and feel that you have gone out of your way to keep this whole thing civil............... gl to you in the future~~!

 

[Fred Agnir]

Hey One~! Fred is a dick~~!!!

No doubt

he seems oblivious to the fact that some of americas greatest players attemted snooker and could not crack the top 100

I'm oblivious to this? Didn't I write in the thread I started?

he obviuosly does not understand the disciplines of snooker

Of course. Do you?

on another site he claimed he was there when efren played Jimmy and Ronnie.

I never claimed I was there. I wonder what gave you that impression.

I do understand what gave you the impression of all of the above, however. Craig misrepresented my argument. And you bought it. That's what happens.

Fred

 

[TheOne]

I do understand what gave you the impression of all of the above, however. Craig misrepresented my argument. And you bought it. That's what happens.

Fred

LOL you're one funny guy Fred, from what I saw people where calling you stuff like that a) before I got involved in the original thread and b) on other boards long long time before I tried to make you see sense. Did somebody else misrepresnt you there, or was that my fault too?

Thanks Trophy cue, it wasn't easy but I tried!

 

[Fred Agnir]

LOL you're one funny guy Fred, from what I saw people where calling you stuff like that a) before I got involved in the original thread and b) on other boards long long time before I tried to make you see sense. Did somebody else misrepresnt you there, or was that my fault too?

Should I be surprised that you align yourself with someone who just blatantly lied about me? Does that make you feel good about your mistake? He lied. That's okay with you? You do see where he blantantly lied, don't you?

Thanks Trophy cue, it wasn't easy but I tried!

You were never civil. You continued your strawman tactics, passive aggressiveness and condescension. All that because you couldn't simply admit that you didn't bother reading what I wrote, which I told you very early on that it didn't seem like you had. Are you going to help spread more lies?

Fred

 

[TheOne]

Should I be surprised that you align yourself with someone who just blatantly lied about me? Does that make you feel good about your mistake? He lied. That's okay with you? You do see where he blantantly lied, don't you?


You were never civil. You continued your strawman tactics, passive aggressiveness and condescension. All that because you couldn't simply admit that you didn't bother reading what I wrote, which I told you very early on that it didn't seem like you had. Are you going to help spread more lies?

Fred

Zzzzzzzzzzz

 

[Fred Agnir]

Zzzzzzzzzzz

You know, I challenged you to go back and read the Ronnie thread. I challenge you again. If you don't take up the challenge, you are admitting that you didn't read it.

You posted a handful of good posts, with good back and forth feedback, until you posted this post, your first post filled with pot shots and mistruths. Yes, you threw the first pot shot.

Here are all the pertinent Ronnie thread posts:

Craig's first insulting post

And here was my first aggressive post, and not surprisingly, it was again after you belittled me and condescended.

My reaction to yet another insult from Craig

My trying to tell Craig that he's arguing something else, at the same time addressing his bold-faced argument


Me explaining why it's easier for a snooker player to break into professional pool

Fred <~~~ knows Craig won't read.

 

[TheOne]

You know, I challenged you to go back and read the Ronnie thread. I challenge you again. If you don't take up the challenge, you are admitting that you didn't read it.

You posted a handful of good posts, with good back and forth feedback, until you posted this post, your first post filled with pot shots and mistruths. Yes, you threw the first pot shot.

Craig's first insulting post

And here was my first aggressive post, and not surprisingly, it was again after you belittled me and condescended.

My reaction to yet another insult from Craig

Fred <~~~ knows Craig won't read.

Now you're scaring me Fred, are you going to stalk me forever! Many many people have told me to stop wasting my time with you but you just won't let go, are you just argumentative? I actually read the first half of the thread again this morning and to be honest after reading the first few pages it reminded me of the way you spoke down to people. You was pretty insulting to other posters many pages before I even joined the thread. So much so one person actually had a go at you and compared you to Fast Larry, its not hard to disagree given my experience with you over the last few days. Many people have told me stop, you seem to have a history of this, I don't so I will stop.

You say the other guy is not telling the truth, after the stuff you've made up in the last few days I doubt it! You ever heard of "the boy who cried wolf" Fred?

 

[Tickets]

zzzzzzzzzz

Craig,

There is button on another page- says "NEW THREAD"

Go and enjoy a beer mate!

Cheers,
Dave

 

[Fred Agnir]

Now you're scaring me Fred,

Craig, I have been telling the truth. I'm sitting here wondering how you got all confused. Just read the threads, please. All of them (I added a couple more). Please! I even added the link to the post where I describe why it's tougher to climb the snooker ranks. My goodness, don't you want to read it instead of lie about me? Can anyone deny that I agreed that it would be easier for a snooker player to convert to pool (after reading those threads)? Anyone?

You say the other guy is not telling the truth,

He said that I claimed I was there when Ronnie and Efren played. I never claimed that nor did I imply it. Are you agreeing with him? I will not ****ing sit here and get lied about by an asswipe like him. If you are going to agree with his lies, that makes you an asshole.

 

[TheOne]

that makes you an asshole.

What was that you said about my MO?, sorry still not biting.

Good night

 

[Tickets]

zzzzzzzzzzzzz

Still zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

BORING!!!!

 

[Fred Agnir]

What was that you said about my MO?, sorry still not biting.

Good night

I don't get it. You don't want to read it after all the mistruths you said of me? Wow. You are something else. I only hope those that have sided with you take a peek at my posts, if for nothing else trying to find a way to hang me. Maybe your friends/mates will see what I've been saying.