Some advice for lower level barbox 8ball players

Drew

Got a little dog in you?
Silver Member
...particularly when you're playing better players. I see this all the time, especially with league players APA sl4-6 and weak 7's or similar. Sl2's and 3's are usually still learning how to pocket balls and play basic shape.

I played a little weekly tournament today and noticed everybody (mostly league players) playing the same way. So these are just some friendly words of advice.

Strange things happen in a handicapped league setting such as APA. Stronger players are matched with weaker players frequently. The stronger player must play more conservatively because 1 game might cost the match. Conservative play means a lot of safety play. The weaker player sees this and tries to mimic the style. It works for them, it should work for you too, right? Wrong. You can't do this against a better player, you will lose.

You must understand that strong players can move just as well (in fact, better) than you. A chess match puts the game in his favor. While you're bunting your balls around the table, he is positioning his balls for a runout.

Your line of thinking should go something like this.
Q: Can I run out? Including the 8.
A: Yes. Then you need to attempt this.
A: No.
Q: Why not? Which balls are trouble?
Q: Where do I need to move the trouble balls so that I can run out?
Q: How am I going to move those balls?

There are only 2 correct answers at this point: break them out while making a ball or break them out while playing safe. Then you need to figure out how you are going to put yourself in a position to break out those balls...ie what angle you need.

You should not be thinking, "Well, if I move this ball here, then he can't run out." That thought will burn you. When you think this way, you end up with a table where all your balls are clustered up and his are wide open. NOTE: This IS a valid strategy when you play a weaker player, because the situation is reversed.

How should you approach better players? RUN OUT! RUN OUT! RUN OUT! Shoot the lower percentage shots. Fire at the break outs. Hope for the best. You're not supposed to win (he's better than you), but at least you're giving yourself a chance...and guess what: you're getting better by challenging yourself.

What about similarly skilled players? This happens a lot too. Both are sl5's, but Player X likes to bunt balls around and Player Y likes to fire away. Player X is probably the favorite in this game because he tends to miss a lot less. But Player Y is improving his pocketing and CB control. Eventually, Player Y jumps a level and Player X has no chance.

BTW: These are things that team captains should be looking at, too. You want X playing the 3's and 4's and you want Y playing the 6's and 7's.



Alright, that's it for the lesson.
 
I agree with what you say, but I wouldnt be telling my 4's to try to run out against a better player. If you dont care about the win, then by all means go for it. Otherwise, a higher level player wants the lower level guy to clear out some traffic for him. Chances are, the higher level guy will get to shoot again.
 
This is great. Thx! I don't play league but I do play against my brother and always lose. I'm player x in the second scenario. Keep playing safe till its a runnable table only problem is...I can't run-out! :)

Last 2 times hez come over we've switched to 9ball. Any tips on how lower level players such as myself should aproach 9ball? (We're both at the same level btw) Thx again.

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I agree with what you say, but I wouldnt be telling my 4's to try to run out against a better player. If you dont care about the win, then by all means go for it. Otherwise, a higher level player wants the lower level guy to clear out some traffic for him. Chances are, the higher level guy will get to shoot again.

I agree with this -- especially if the league rules in question allow for the lower-skill-level player to take a ball spot from the higher-skill-level player. (Yes, many of the local traveling leagues around my area give a ball spot to a lower-skill-level player if the difference in skill level from his/her opponent is 2 or more. That is, if a skill level "6" plays a skill level "4," the race is 5 - 3 with the skill level "4" getting a ball spot from the skill level "6.")

If Drew was referring to straight races without a ball spot, I can see his points, because everything is on an even keel per rack; it's just that the lower-skill-level player is getting games on the wire. But when a ball spot enters the picture for each rack, it changes EVERYTHING. Now the "4" only has to pocket 6 of his 7 balls, leave the last ball on the table, and go for the 8-ball. Obviously, that ball spot is a tool for the "4," because now he/she can use it to tie-up his/her opponent's category.

-Sean
 
I agree with the OP,fire at everything until you find a lockup safe.When you find that safe make it good,get ball in hand and fire again!When the lessor player gets into a safety battle with a skilled player the lessor player SHOULD always lose,those safety battles where your just bunting ball after ball will take the lessor player out of stroke and confidence quicker than anything.

This is for a games on the wire strategy,a ball spot needs to be played more conservatively
 
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I agree with this -- especially if the league rules in question allow for the lower-skill-level player to take a ball spot from the higher-skill-level player. (Yes, many of the local traveling leagues around my area give a ball spot to a lower-skill-level player if the difference in skill level from his/her opponent is 2 or more. That is, if a skill level "6" plays a skill level "4," the race is 5 - 3 with the skill level "4" getting a ball spot from the skill level "6.")

If Drew was referring to straight races without a ball spot, I can see his points, because everything is on an even keel per rack; it's just that the lower-skill-level player is getting games on the wire. But when a ball spot enters the picture for each rack, it changes EVERYTHING. Now the "4" only has to pocket 6 of his 7 balls, leave the last ball on the table, and go for the 8-ball. Obviously, that ball spot is a tool for the "4," because now he/she can use it to tie-up his/her opponent's category.

-Sean

I havent seen that type of spot, sounds interesting. I could see a 5 loving a spot like that.
 
I havent seen that type of spot, sounds interesting. I could see a 5 loving a spot like that.

The 5 would only get that spot playing a 7. (The ball spot doesn't enter in unless there's a skill level difference of "2" or more between the players.)

And yes, the 7s would have their hands full giving a ball spot to a 5. The 7s have to play perfect (or near perfect) pool -- running out like water when they can, and playing lockup safeties when they can't.

-Sean
 
How should you approach better players? RUN OUT! RUN OUT! RUN OUT! Shoot the lower percentage shots. Fire at the break outs. Hope for the best. You're not supposed to win (he's better than you), but at least you're giving yourself a chance...and guess what: you're getting better by challenging yourself.

You see this all of the time in other sports: big underdogs that try to 'stay in the game' against far superior competition. It very rarely works because they'll just inevitably win by attrition. If the little guy is to win he has to take chances that the big dog won't. He has to play like there is no pressure on him because there really isn't. The pressure should be all on the favorite and if the little guy can create some momentum that pressure is likely to build.

If you want to pull the upset, don't be afraid to lose.

This is for a games on the wire strategy,a ball spot needs to be played more conservatively

Important distinction. Ball spots are far better means of handicapping and therefore do more to eliminate the favorite status. The same would apply in another sport if they only had to 'beat the spread'.

I agree with what you say, but I wouldnt be telling my 4's to try to run out against a better player. If you dont care about the win, then by all means go for it. Otherwise, a higher level player wants the lower level guy to clear out some traffic for him. Chances are, the higher level guy will get to shoot again.

'One ball hell' applies regardless of SL, imo. There always has to be some intelligence to the aggressive nature. If we were going to use basketball as an example the underdog might increase their odds by taking more three pointers and attempting more steals. What they shouldn't do, however, is run down the court and attempt half court shots all game long. That's not being intelligently aggressive. Being intelligently aggressive and taking risks by firing in 3's and attempting steals may make up for the fact they're going to get killed in the post and on the glass, however.

The strategy in our 8 ball example is very similiar. Odds are great that the higher SL player is going to be not only a better safety player but a better kicker as well. These areas aren't practiced much by most players, and likely not even a thought for a lower SL player. Therefore, while risky to attempt the runout, it beats the attrition they face by giving up ball in hand in losing safety battles.
 
The 5 would only get that spot playing a 7. (The ball spot doesn't enter in unless there's a skill level difference of "2" or more between the players.)

And yes, the 7s would have their hands full giving a ball spot to a 5. The 7s have to play perfect (or near perfect) pool -- running out like water when they can, and playing lockup safeties when they can't.

-Sean

Yup, I understood. Theres a pretty big gap between 4 and 5. The 4 is still gonna blow the run more often than not. The 5 though, thinks on a different level. He might get out often enough with the extra ball helping him.
 
The strategy in our 8 ball example is very similiar. Odds are great that the higher SL player is going to be not only a better safety player but a better kicker as well. These areas aren't practiced much by most players, and likely not even a thought for a lower SL player. Therefore, while risky to attempt the runout, it beats the attrition they face by giving up ball in hand in losing safety battles.[/QUOTE]
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Its not as if its a choice between run out or play safe. A good 4 can bait the better player to pull off a tough run out. Let the 4 go for the run out, but not so early in the game. Early on I'd rather him try to tie up a pocket or break out a cluster, shoot a trouble ball stuck to the side pocket maybe. Something that will give him a chance to run an easier table later, with less congestion.
 
This is great. Thx! I don't play league but I do play against my brother and always lose. I'm player x in the second scenario. Keep playing safe till its a runnable table only problem is...I can't run-out! :)

Last 2 times hez come over we've switched to 9ball. Any tips on how lower level players such as myself should aproach 9ball? (We're both at the same level btw) Thx again.

Sent from my BlackBerry 9780 using Tapatalk

Try making 2 or 3 balls early in the game. So now you have to run 5 or 6 balls to get out. You never want make more than 5 of your balls if you're not going to run out and you want your last 2 balls positioned well; you need to be able to make a ball from anywhere when you return to the table.

Playing 9ball? This is far less strategic. You're really playing the layout, not your opponent. Here's what you do: start with the 3 ball ghost and increase the balls until you can't win anymore. Let's say you can beat the 5ball ghost but you can't beat the 6ball ghost; so 5 is the magic number. Don't attempt to run out until there are 5 or less balls on the table...obviously, you can't run 7 or 8 balls, so why are you trying? Nice thing about 9ball is it's easy to gauge your opponent. Let's say he runs 7 but can't run 8. So 7 is the other magic number.

The strategy:
When there are more than 7 balls on the table, you need to be looking at firing at the 9. When there are between 5 and 7 balls on the table, you should be looking at playing safe or giving him long shots or tough banks. When there are less than 5 balls on the table, you should be running out.
 
I agree with this -- especially if the league rules in question allow for the lower-skill-level player to take a ball spot from the higher-skill-level player. (Yes, many of the local traveling leagues around my area give a ball spot to a lower-skill-level player if the difference in skill level from his/her opponent is 2 or more. That is, if a skill level "6" plays a skill level "4," the race is 5 - 3 with the skill level "4" getting a ball spot from the skill level "6.")

If Drew was referring to straight races without a ball spot, I can see his points, because everything is on an even keel per rack; it's just that the lower-skill-level player is getting games on the wire. But when a ball spot enters the picture for each rack, it changes EVERYTHING. Now the "4" only has to pocket 6 of his 7 balls, leave the last ball on the table, and go for the 8-ball. Obviously, that ball spot is a tool for the "4," because now he/she can use it to tie-up his/her opponent's category.

-Sean

Thanks for bringing that up. This advice is mostly for non-handicapped matches: challenge table and tournament settings. Technically, a spot is supposed to even up the game so you should be playing your most comfortable game.

I didn't know any leagues gave up ball spots. That's not even 8ball anymore.
 
Thanks for bringing that up. This advice is mostly for non-handicapped matches: challenge table and tournament settings. Technically, a spot is supposed to even up the game so you should be playing your most comfortable game.

I didn't know any leagues gave up ball spots. That's not even 8ball anymore.

I am in a beginner and advanced league. Beginner league handicaps balls, advanced league handicaps games. Beginner league is structured to favor the lower level player. Balls come off the table at the end.

As a whole it is a good system as it attracts new people to the game/league. If you are in the beginner league and become frustrated at giving up too many balls to your opponent, it's time to move up to the advanced league.
 
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