Some things ive noticed about my game, now that im playing in the APA regularly
- Thread starter RunoutalloverU
- Start date
Neil said:
Yeah, im actually ok at getting position to break clusters out, it just seems in bar box eight ball there are so many of them. And I need to work on doing it with control. Its one thing to send the cue ball into two frozen balls, it is entirely another to do it and come out with good shape.
RunoutalloverU said:
Very simple. The APA rules state that if there is no intent to pocket a ball, it should be marked as a defensive shot. Whether you miss on purpose, or play a safety, it should be marked on the scoresheets as a defensive shot.
Steve
pooltchr said:
IIIIIIIII..........got it.
PoolBum said:
That I do not know.
PoolBum said:
Yes they do. So if overall you have 18 innings in an entire match, but you have 4 safeties marked, they exactly don't cancel them out, but affect your overall rating versus if just 18 innings are marked without any safeties marked.
RunoutalloverU said:
This is not a good way to approach the game. You have to always believe if you give someone a shot, that they will run out. You should never think that someone in their inning will miss and you will be able to return and run your balls out. You should always play like you are playing Efren. I play this way even when I am playing a 2.
Below you will find how I teach 8 Ball strategy. I only teach this to SL5's and above. Once problem balls are out of the way, and a table is open, usually a skill level of at least a 5 can run out. I do not teach weak 4's and below to play this way. You have to be able to run out and complete the rack if you are going to be breaking out clusters of balls that involve the other player's suit. In SL's under a 4, it is usually just a race to see who makes their balls first. So this rest of the post would not apply to them as of yet.
Every time you come to the table, you should always be able to go through the same process of questions.
1. Do I have any problem balls?
The first thing you do is look when you come to the table during your inning is ask yourself if you have any problem balls.
If the answer is YES:
The problem balls need to be addressed first. You have to see if there is a way to break these balls out. Is there a ball near the cluster that you can use to get these balls out? If so, you must immediately play to get on this ball.
**Do not shoot a ball in the corner, then shoot another in the side, then another in the other side to get yourself down on the foot rail to get yourself in position to shoot the breakout that you should have done the first shot. You have just shot what I call your "saver" balls.
**When you shoot a ball in to break out two balls that are tied up, you should not play position for the balls you are breaking out. One of those two balls are ideally not good balls to be your next ball.
**That is why it is good to have a "saver ball", a ball that is up in front of a corner, or hanging the side, something that you can shoot to get you position on something else, or even one of the two balls you just broke out.
I am telling you to play position for a known ball, versus an unknown. (the clustered or tied up balls)
To the higher skill level player, having many balls of your suit on the table are not obstacles, but options. This is very important for you to change your thinking on this. You do not simply start shooting your balls because they are there and out in the open, when you have problems elsewhere.
If the answer is NO:
If you have no problem balls, the balls are out in the open, you can proceed to the Yes portion of "Can I run out?", because you can.
I have seen many people come to the table and start shooting various balls they have in the open and then saving their problem balls for last. You cannot do this! Any ball you choose to start the inning if you have a problem cluster is to get you in position to break out that cluster.
2. Can I run out?
If the answer is YES:
If you have no problem balls, the answer to this should be yes as being a SL 5 or above.
**Start at the 8 ball and work the out backwards. The game is played a bit like straight pool in this sense.
**You first look at where the 8 ball is, and then pick a key ball. A key ball is the easiest ball for you to be able to shoot before the 8, that gives you the simplest shape for the 8. Ideally you want to be able to shoot the ball say, straight in the side with stop, and with that, your cueball position would be perfect for the 8.
In the example I posted below, the ONE ball should be used as the key ball, if you have solids. You would not want to choose the 4 or the 3 ball as key balls in this situation as they are below the 8. You could under hit one of these balls trying to get above the 8, so shape would be speed dependent. The one ball is the choice because you could hit it in the side and stop, and you are perfect on the 8 without having to depend on speed or angle for the most part.
So, continuing backwards, from the one, the 2 looks like a good ball to get me straight on the one, the three looks like the ball to get me on the two, and the four ball would be the one I start with. (I arranged them in this order on purpose on the wei diagram to make it simple
) So again, 4,3,2, 1 then the 8.If the answer is NO:
The answer would be no to "Can I run out?" if you cannot break out a cluster, there are no balls to get you there. In this instance, you would not even hit one of your balls in until you knew you could run out. If you tried to break out a cluster, and failed, you must stop! Play safe here. Do not continue shooting out balls if you find there is no other way to break out a cluster.
**Do not shoot 3 of your open balls in then play safe. You are making it very easy for me just to play safe on you. Remember these balls are options for you, and obstacles for me, not obstacles for you.
I think the above covers most of it. There are some other things of course I could add but I think this post is long enough at this point.
Hope this helps,
girlwon1
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APA7 said:This iz why U can't beat the 10 ball ghost. Sorry.
Brian
I can actually.....sorry
Breaking out balls in 10 ball, when necessary, is different than doing it in 8 ball. This is obvious to advanced players, so I don't blame you for missing it. And I actually dont put much stock in playing the ghost. I don't take ball in hand when practicing 10 ball. I think it gives you a false sense of accomplishment, and it doesn't help in practicing your push out or safety play off of the break.
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girlwon1 said:Yes they do. So if overall you have 18 innings in an entire match, but you have 4 safeties marked, they exactly don't cancel them out, but affect your overall rating versus if just 18 innings are marked without any safeties marked.
This is not a good way to approach the game. You have to always believe if you give someone a shot, that they will run out. You should never think that someone in their inning will miss and you will be able to return and run your balls out. You should always play like you are playing Efren. I play this way even when I am playing a 2.
Below you will find how I teach 8 Ball strategy. I only teach this to SL5's and above. Once problem balls are out of the way, and a table is open, usually a skill level of at least a 5 can run out. I do not teach weak 4's and below to play this way. You have to be able to run out and complete the rack if you are going to be breaking out clusters of balls that involve the other player's suit. In SL's under a 4, it is usually just a race to see who makes their balls first. So this rest of the post would not apply to them as of yet.
Every time you come to the table, you should always be able to go through the same process of questions.
1. Do I have any problem balls?
The first thing you do is look when you come to the table during your inning is ask yourself if you have any problem balls.
If the answer is YES:
The problem balls need to be addressed first. You have to see if there is a way to break these balls out. Is there a ball near the cluster that you can use to get these balls out? If so, you must immediately play to get on this ball.
**Do not shoot a ball in the corner, then shoot another in the side, then another in the other side to get yourself down on the foot rail to get yourself in position to shoot the breakout that you should have done the first shot. You have just shot what I call your "saver" balls.
**When you shoot a ball in to break out two balls that are tied up, you should not play position for the balls you are breaking out. One of those two balls are ideally not good balls to be your next ball.
**That is why it is good to have a "saver ball", a ball that is up in front of a corner, or hanging the side, something that you can shoot to get you position on something else, or even one of the two balls you just broke out.
I am telling you to play position for a known ball, versus an unknown. (the clustered or tied up balls)
To the higher skill level player, having many balls of your suit on the table are not obstacles, but options. This is very important for you to change your thinking on this. You do not simply start shooting your balls because they are there and out in the open, when you have problems elsewhere.
If the answer is NO:
If you have no problem balls, the balls are out in the open, you can proceed to the Yes portion of "Can I run out?", because you can.
I have seen many people come to the table and start shooting various balls they have in the open and then saving their problem balls for last. You cannot do this! Any ball you choose to start the inning if you have a problem cluster is to get you in position to break out that cluster.
2. Can I run out?
If the answer is YES:
If you have no problem balls, the answer to this should be yes as being a SL 5 or above.
**Start at the 8 ball and work the out backwards. The game is played a bit like straight pool in this sense.
**You first look at where the 8 ball is, and then pick a key ball. A key ball is the easiest ball for you to be able to shoot before the 8, that gives you the simplest shape for the 8. Ideally you want to be able to shoot the ball say, straight in the side with stop, and with that, your cueball position would be perfect for the 8.
In the example I posted below, the ONE ball should be used as the key ball, if you have solids. You would not want to choose the 4 or the 3 ball as key balls in this situation as they are below the 8. You could under hit one of these balls trying to get above the 8, so shape would be speed dependent. The one ball is the choice because you could hit it in the side and stop, and you are perfect on the 8 without having to depend on speed or angle for the most part.
So, continuing backwards, from the one, the 2 looks like a good ball to get me straight on the one, the three looks like the ball to get me on the two, and the four ball would be the one I start with. (I arranged them in this order on purpose on the wei diagram to make it simple
If the answer is NO:
The answer would be no to "Can I run out?" if you cannot break out a cluster, there are no balls to get you there. In this instance, you would not even hit one of your balls in until you knew you could run out. If you tried to break out a cluster, and failed, you must stop! Play safe here. Do not continue shooting out balls if you find there is no other way to break out a cluster.
**Do not shoot 3 of your open balls in then play safe. You are making it very easy for me just to play safe on you. Remember these balls are options for you, and obstacles for me, not obstacles for you.
I think the above covers most of it. There are some other things of course I could add but I think this post is long enough at this point.
Hope this helps,
girlwon1
thanks for taking time out to respond. Although your points are basic, they are well thought out and written. I think as far as knowledge regarding the proper way to do things in 8 ball, I can match anyone. Its just the execution to be able to strings racks together consistently in all games on all tables that I need to work on. But then again I think most of us do.
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girlwon1 said:
Yeah I don't actually ever do that, I was just thinking "outloud". Nor would I. Its a terrible way to approach the game! But thanks for addressing some of my sillier musings.
So lemme get this straight - you're an APA SL4 (who thought it was cool to try to sandbag to stay an APA SL3) who can beat the 10 ball ghost without BIH after the break? The 7's in your league must give Johnny and Earl the orange crush and the breaks....RunoutalloverU said:I can actually.....sorry
Why are you worried about a "false sense of accomplishment" concerning the 10 ball ghost and BIH when you're an admitted sandbagger?
-djb
RunoutalloverU said:I can actually.....sorry
i call bullsheet on this. prove it with unedited video. i doubt u will
DoomCue said:
Well yes, and no. I am an S/L 4 yes. But im an S/L 4 because ive tried to keep my S/L down. I should be a 6 or 7, we will see how it goes when the season is over. I thought keeping my S/L down by running up the innings was good strategy. I get thats its cheating now, so lets not the beat the dead horse. And no I can't beat the ghost w/0 ball in hand after the break. I should have been more clear.
Actually I probably can't beat with BIH either. When taking the BIH after the break in 10 racks in 10 ball point tests, I consistently score in the A- range on tight brunswick GC equipment. So I might run out to the 8 and get funny on the 9 and miss. But in the ghost game I play its still 8 points, but I think in the ghost game your talking about it would be a loss for me. So you can take that for what its worth.
I was just saying at this point I try and practice without using BIH, for the reasons ive already stated. When I take ball in hand during practice in when im playing full rack rotation, because if you dont the game can get frustrating.