Stance with respect to fore/aft

dquarasr

dquarasr

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Of course left/right alignment is vitally important. But I've not seen much discussion about fore/aft stance placement.

I've been using the MOAD (diagonal 2:1 diamond to 1:2 diamond shot, both sides of the table) to "groove" my stroke and stance.

I can follow the CB into the pocket 3 out of 5 times when shooting diagonally left-to-right. I miss CB left nearly all the time shooting diagonally right-to-left.

Two observations from today:

1 - I'm a moron. Insanity is defined as doing the same thing over and over expecting different results, so I must be insane. After shooting the right-to-left, I try the left-to-right over and over and over. I either miss the pocket entirely, or make the OB but the CB hits the long rail sometimes almost a whole diamond up from the corner pocket.

So, why? I got out my tape measure and checked the placement of the reinforcing dots I put down to replicate the shot. OF COURSE! The damned dots in the right-to-left shot were each off 1/4", so "straight in" was actually cheating the pocket to the right. Duh. (Face palm)

2 - I must keep my face square to the shot, with the cue under my vision center. Repeat "Duh". This is a known, no surprises here.

3 - After I fixed #1, I was still missing CB left a bit. Mostly making the OB, but woefully inadequate in having the CB follow the OB into the pocket. Huh, interesting. Why? I realized that for some reason, when I line up and get down on the shot left-to-right, my cue tip, with my standard 7-8" bridge length, is right on the CB. When I line up the right-to-left, because of my perception of where I am in relation to the table, I'm standing 3"-5" farther back and unconsciously, I don't move forward with my feet, I simply stretch my bridge arm and hand to reach the CB. That obviously (?) affects stroke alignment.

After I got my fore-aft alignment closer to the CB, my success in making the shot and following the OB into the pocket was much better.

Comments on fore-aft stance "alignment", reaching for the CB, and how it affects the stroke and alignment most welcome!!! In my case, it appears that reaching for the shot causes me to get down farther on the shot than "normal" (for me), and messes up my shoulder / elbow / head alignment.

I'm interested in hearing your feedback on whether I am on to something, or barking up the wrong tree. Thanks.
 
I hang both my arms to get the shoulders out of it. Stick/shooting placement is then right hand around the navel, bridge arm with a 10 to 30+ degree crook to it, elbow down and comfortable; again no shoulder.

However you are standing, you need to locate the linear properties and parameters and groove the best compromise - and this next part is the most important, _without tension_. This means eliminating all friction and developing flex speed at the soft to medium level. Small steps.

One thing about the donuts. Don't develop a dependency on 'em. Set the balls on the table and actually observe the orientation. Straight ins don't require much else. The balls tell you what happens next.
 
Only the very best players--and you too, with this tip--fix their tip gap (distance between cue tip and cue ball at address) with their feet.
 
A player's set of fundamentals as he or she sets up for a shot is loaded with variables. But when it comes to distance from the eyes to the cue ball, most players have an optimal distance that best allows them to see the line of the shot from their shooting stances. It's not exactly the same for everyone, so keep that in mind, particularly if there is an eye pathology involved. (Yes, there's that whole triangulation thing, but it's more than just that.)

Sometimes a particular shot dictates that they have to stand close, so they adjust by shortening their bridge length and adjusting their head placement by raising it up and standing taller to achieve that same optimal viewing distance. You noticed that when you stood farther away, you lowered your head.

Sometimes the shot requires a shorter bridge length, so they again, stand closer and adjust their height.

So to answer your question about distance, if you lose your optimal viewing distance on a shot, your sight, and then your alignment could be off. You might get lucky, but you might not.

Some players choose to stand closer and taller in general and others choose to stand farther back and lower. Those choices are based on the player's preference for stance, balance and stroking and the requirements of the particular game they're playing.

Usually, players with shorter bridge lengths will stand taller to get that optimal viewing distance like the 14.1 players of years ago. Why? Because 14.1 involves a lot of short shots. You can always tell a rotation player who suddenly plays 14.1 by their long bridge length. They haven't quite made the adjustment yet. I used to enjoy watching them in the 14.1 championships. They were kind of awkward, but did really well on the big shots. LOL

Now as if things weren't complicated enough --- When a player has to adjust his distance from the shot, he has to have a fail-safe way of feeling his alignment or that could be off, even if he properly adjusts his head for his vision. When your body is in a different position at the table, you have to have your check-points in order for your alignment process ---- elbow goes here --- shoulder goes here --- etc...and it's all by feel. You can't turn around and look at yourself or you'll lose your visual of the line of the shot.
 
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FranCrimi said:
But when it comes to distance from the eyes to the cue ball, most players have an optimal distance that best allows them to see the line of the shot from their shooting stances. It's not exactly the same for everyone, so keep that in mind, particularly if there is an eye pathology involved. (Yes, there's that whole triangulation thing, but it's more than just that.)
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I feel I've reached a different level of shotmaking lately, I've noticed if I aim the ball, if I focus on the shot line (OB to pocket) at the most easy place for my vision to focus, I make the ball. I don't fully trust it yet, shoud I? :unsure:
 
boogieman said:
I feel I've reached a different level of shotmaking lately, I've noticed if I aim the ball, if I focus on the shot line (OB to pocket) at the most easy place for my vision to focus, I make the ball. I don't fully trust it yet, shoud I? :unsure:
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It's hard for me to answer that question because you need to give it time. All I can suggest is that if you're trying something new that seems to give you success, continue to do it for awhile. Sometimes it can take as long as a few weeks to a few months for you to be able to reach a conclusion about it. I've thrown things out after doing them for as long as a year. If you continue to do it and if you suddenly start missing, it may be time to try something different.
 
boogieman said:
I feel I've reached a different level of shotmaking lately, I've noticed if I aim the ball, if I focus on the shot line (OB to pocket) at the most easy place for my vision to focus, I make the ball. I don't fully trust it yet, shoud I? :unsure:
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As stated, trial and error is the way of learning. From your guitar chops it's evident you have a good sense of what works and sticking with it. I don't think pool differs in that regard. Intuition is your friend.
 
usually when you are stretched its hard to get thru the cueball so often especially on draw shots (for me) i have to concentrate to make sure i get enough oomph on the ball
i dont understand why you should have a different distance going right to left vs left to right if the table is not getting in the way?
if you put the cue ball on the spot and shoot to both diagonal pockets does it still happen?
 
We'd also be happy to look at a video or photos, as "fore and aft" to me also means where the shooting hand is in relation to the body, certain stances make it easy to pull the cue through the shot (some pull, some push on the forward stroke, some try to swing from the elbow, it depends) but you get the point--a stance that well accommodates your playing style.
 
BilliardsAbout said:
We'd also be happy to look at a video or photos, as "fore and aft" to me also means where the shooting hand is in relation to the body, certain stances make it easy to pull the cue through the shot (some pull, some push on the forward stroke, some try to swing from the elbow, it depends) but you get the point--a stance that well accommodates your playing style.
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As a draw/stun player, changing my stance was the hardest thing for me while I was learning natural routes and follow. Each shot has a specific stance.
 
boogieman said:
As a draw/stun player, changing my stance was the hardest thing for me while I was learning natural routes and follow. Each shot has a specific stance.
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You may do so that way. To reduce variables, I use the same stance but different hand bridges or even the same hand bridge at center ball--if you want to call a raised or lowered stroke arm a different stance.
 
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