Straight pool. What a game!!

Mike_Mason said:
I don't remember where I heard it...or read it...and it was some time ago...but the thought made an impression on me...that if you can run 16 balls then you can run 100...or 527 maybe...

The reasoning is that in order to run 16 balls in straight pool then you have to run a full rack...set up a break shot...and make that break shot...now all you have to do is do it again...[...]

Here's some data I posted in RSB five years ago. My high run was 50 at the time. It illustrates that for me the statistical chance that I'd run 100 given that I spent an hour a day doing nothing but busting up a rack and trying to get a high run was pretty small--It'd likely take me over 150 years of trying!

That assumes I nether improved nor died during that time.


************

Here's some data for me that illustrate the break ball
bottleneck. Over the past four months, I've played 1460 innings of equal
offense (Open break and try to run 20 14.1 style). Here are the possible
results (0 - 20) and the number of times I've achieved each.

0 26
1 32
2 57
3 64
4 50
5 68
6 62
7 69
8 78
9 83
10 61
11 79
12 76
13 91
14 155
15 139
16 41
17 26
18 25
19 21
20 157

So 26 times I missed with bih in the kitchen [:-(] and 157 times I ran all 20.

91 times I missed while shooting at the key ball. 155 times I missed the
break shot. And 139 times I either failed to open up the pack, got stuck
in the pack or got so excited about the great break shot that I missed the
next ball.

My percentage of running 14 balls starting from bih with all balls on the
table is about 39%. But my percentage running 14 balls that includes
opening up a new rack is much lower. My percentage getting to 20 given
that I got to 6 is 14.3%, or about 1 in 7 tries. This is my true
percantage for running a rack.

So if I start with 9 balls spread out on the table, here are the number of
attempts I would probably need to achieve the following runs once.

run
___
14 -- 7 attempts (once in 0.5 hours of playing)
28 -- 49 attempts (once in 3 hours of playing)
42 -- 342 attempts (once in 23 hours of playing)
56 -- 2,389 attempts (Once in 160 hours of playing)
70 -- 16,700 attempts (Once in 1100 hours of playing)
84 -- 117,000 attempts (once in 7800 hours of playing)
98 -- 816,000 attempts (once in 54400 hours of playing)
112 -- 5,700,000 attempts ( once in 380,000 hours of playing)

My high run of 50 makes sense in light of this. If I tried for an hour a
day, I should run 56 about once every 5 months. But notice that I would
run 98 only about once every 150 years!!! So the saying that if you can
run 50, you can run 100 -- it just ain't true.

--
mike page
fargo
 
14.1

I am almost 60 yrs old and I was lucky enough to get to play or watch , Jimmy Moore, Irving Crane, Joe Balsis, Jimmy Caras and a few others. The general knowledge at the time was ... if you could run about 3 to 4 racks once in a while you had the skills to run many more. This seemed to be the consensus of most of these players. (and, If you could play "50 no count", you WERE a straight pool player!!!)
By the time you get to this level of play, you have learned to take care of the problem balls and have learned to set up key and break balls. Nowadays , I love to set up positions of balls and show those who haven't played much straight pool how it is supposed to work.
 
My high run of 50 makes sense in light of this. If I tried for an hour a
day, I should run 56 about once every 5 months. But notice that I would
run 98 only about once every 150 years!!! So the saying that if you can
run 50, you can run 100 -- it just ain't true.

--
mike page
fargo[/QUOTE]

That's a hell of a lot of data Mike!:D......maybe the statement "if you can run 50 on a regular basis" should have been the disclaimer. Also I feel the learning curve of what NOT to do when running balls is the biggest determining factor on lengthening runs. Since we all are constantly learning, that factor alone carries much clout. Also on any given day you might feel great, or like crap, or just read a good piece of info you can use.....etc

So, like you said....if you never learned, or changed anything....your right, but that never happens in the real world...IMO

Gerry
 
Referring to my wei table. First the 2, 3, 13, 12, and 10 ball must be cleared out first. Because your break on the cluster will send balls most likely in the direction of those rails. The 1, and 5 are balls I would use to to get position to break out the cluster (11 breakout ball.) The 15 ball is my insurance ball that will stay put until the final cluster is nudged apart.

Feel free to add or correct...

I wouldn't say "correct"....I'd say here's my way of opening them up:

First the 13...clears a rail ball/opens a pocket for the 2 at the same time....with position on the 3.

Next the 3...hitting the bottom of the 6 so you don't go up table. With the other balls surrounding the cluster, your almost sure to get a shot, and it seems high percentage.

Not sure after that since we just went into the balls!:D Fun stuff though...

Gerry
 
Hi Steve, thanks for the kind words. How you hitting em? I was hoping on seeing you in NJ for the 14.1 event which I was planning on going to spectate, but a conflicting trip has come up.

After watching Bob's 14.1 event at the DCC (and taking my miserable three attempts) I became reinspired to play your game and have been concentrating on 14.1 the last four months. The immersion therapy has done wonders for my game and my stroke. As I'm sure you know, you just can't run balls with a bad stroke. If I'm not setting up right, running even two racks becomes next to impossible. That forces some introspection and I then discover all kinds of little things that could use a tweak here or there. It always amazes me how small adjustments can take you from only running a rack or two to consistently running six or seven.

There's a young lad I mentor and he asked me what he could do to improve his game and I told him, 'Practice 14.1 with the following mind set: each shot you miss is a sign post as to what you don't know and need to work on." After a few months of this he tells me he's now playing pretty sporty.

Like the title of the thread says, "what a game!!"

Lou Figueroa



Steve Lipsky said:
Lou, it's great to see you posting! I remember you from the old RSB days and hope you continue to share your insights with this board.

- Steve
 
Zuglan--tough luck

fred_in_hoboken said:
Yes- it was two innings.

West had a near perfect opening break. Zuglan tried a combo out of the rack. West runs 57, ending the run with a miss on a masse. Grady Matthews was commentating, calling out West for missing on a "circus shot". Zuglan runs 48, missing a combo. West then runs 93 and out, making it look easy.

While the pool is great, the commentary on that match is fun too. It had Grady, Johnny Ervolino and Bill Staton

How's this for tough luck: Mike Zuglan, in the US Open loses the lag against Mike Sigel, by like 1/4". He makes a decent opening break, but leaves Sigel a long shot from the top rail. Sigel makes it, and proceeds to run 150 and out. That was Mike Zuglan's first lose.

Next he plays Ray Martin. This time he wins the lag. Ray breaks and leaves Zuglan a shot. Mike then runs 148--nearly replicating what Sigel just did to him--before trying a combination shot I'm sure he still regrets. He had at least one more open shot, though position for his final ball would have been a flyer. Instead he chose a ball in the stack that had to throw a bit. It didn't throw and Mike didn't get his 150 and out.

His next game, against Dallas, he wins the lag. Dallas makes a textbook perfect break. Zuglan tries a complicated and, yes, in retrospect, ill advised combination from the stack. He could have taken a foul and put the cueball behind the rack; that really was his only other option. Anyway, from there, Dallas goes out in two innings, sandwiched around a 48 ball inning for Zuglan.

So imagine, Zuglan loses two games in which he only missed one makable shot. Basically, one miss and he's eliminated. How's that for tough?
 
Gerry said:
...I wouldn't say "correct"....I'd say here's my way of opening them up:

First the 13...clears a rail ball/opens a pocket for the 2 at the same time....with position on the 3.

Next the 3...hitting the bottom of the 6 so you don't go up table. With the other balls surrounding the cluster, your almost sure to get a shot, and it seems high percentage.

Not sure after that since we just went into the balls!:D Fun stuff though...

Gerry
Take my opinions lightly because I'm a total novice in straight pool...but...

Hitting the 3 to the top-left corner after the 13 doesn't look like a good idea. First, I don't think the angle is natural enough to clip the 6...you'd probably need to hit it with significant follow. Also, I think it would be better to get rid of the 15 on the end rail, since that can pose a problem in the future.

I personally would hit the 13 with soft follow for position on the end rail to shoot the 15 in the top-left corner. Then follow the 15 to give myself an angle on the 3 to the bottom-left corner. Then, I would hit the 3 with slight draw to go into the right half (bottom half in the wei table's perspective) of the 6 such that I can play position for the 2 or 1, or maybe 5 worst case.

CueTable Help

 
Very good observations. You are correct in your run assumptions. We all read of the 100 ball runs of countless of the board's members, but a consistent 20 or 25 is beating anyone but top pros and there are times when that level of play would win there as well. I've played for nearly 50 years, have had pro much tutoring, and have spent many a day playing and observing 14.1.
 
rikdee said:
a consistent 20 or 25 is beating anyone but top pros and there are times when that level of play would win there as well.
In many matches, it is not how many balls you run at one time, it is how well you play safe, when your run is done, that counts. :D
 
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