Strategies

[chefjeff]

This thread is for discussing the various strategies you've come across and used while shooting this tournament. I'll start with one:

This refers to clusters of balls...

If one of the balls in a cluster is the lowest, or avery low ball number (e.g. 1-5), then that cluster must be broken out before the tenth ball. If the cluster is, say, the 14 and 15 on the rail, then that cluster is less important early in the game. Even if you never get to it, you'll still be able to score a 16. If you never get to the small-numbered cluster, you'll never get past 10.

Comments?

Jeff Livingston

 

[Williebetmore]

I agree to some extent with the Chef-man. I think all clusters should be broken safely, and it is a very rare rack where that is not possible (depends on how high you set your sights). Very good advice though if your goal is not 20 every rack.

My principles for this game have almost all come from my instructor who plays a slightly more difficult Hopkins variant called "Bowlliards" - basically the same game except the first 9 balls are made in any order, the last 6 are in rotation, and a 9 point bonus for completing the entire rack (maximum 30 points per rack, played in sessions of 10 racks, thus "bowlliards" with a max of 300 points per game). More difficult because there are only 9 soldiers to use in preparing for the rotation portion, and because there is a huge premium on completing the rack. My instructor spent a weekend competing at this game with the top players in the world - had a VERY interesting finding.

He said that even the best players in the world never came anywhere close to scoring 250 out of 300 until they discovered the "secret". The "secret" was to pick your last 6 rotational balls immediately after the opening break. Only once the pro's started doing that were they able to score in the 270-300 range.

When I first started playing that game 3 years ago (and I played it daily for about a year and a half), it was like Chinese arithmetic figuring out the last 6; now it seems fairly easy (especially only having to shoot 5 in rotation with the Q-Skill Challenge). Straight pool players who follow the hallowed principles of the game will have little problem with the first 10 balls in Q-Skill; the 9-ball players should have little problem running the last 5 if they are chosen wisely.

Also, in my opinion (not my instructor's), I feel it is advantageous to break only hard enough to get a nice even spread. The fewer balls made the better, you need the soldiers to set up the last 5. If you play the "Bowlliards" version and make 2 or 3 balls on the break you are usually screwed, not enough time to solve your problems.

The straight pool principles that are especially advantageous for Q-Skill play are:

Take care of trouble balls, rail balls, and clusters AS SOON AS POSSIBLE.

Shoot easy shots as much as possible (often conflicts with the first rule noted).

Open the paths to the pockets AS SOON AS POSSIBLE.

Break clusters only with an insurance ball, or with a fair idea of how the balls will separate.

Pick a key ball, and a key ball-to-key ball as soon as you choose your last 5. Make these stop shots or easy position shots if possible. In my game, this is the area where most of my trouble occurs; getting position on that first rotation ball (just as in straight pool those last couple of balls can be an absolute ***** if you get a little out of line - I'll bet the really good 14.1 players just kick ass at this game).

And lastly (especially important in any cerebral pool game where you can forget this easily) - POCKET THE BALL YOU ARE SHOOTING AT - IT'S JOB #1.


P.S. - if you think of this game in terms that the champions do, it is an incredibly easy game. You just have to run 10 balls on a wide open table, then just run 5 balls in rotation. Who here is not capable of either one of these feats????

P.P.S. - it is not enough to know these principles, you have to play enough to be able to bring them into play continuously to minimize your risk.

 

[Gerry]

In my first 2 sets, I went into clusters EVERY chance I got. I played it like I would play 14.1, mainly trying to leave NO clusters for the remaining 5 balls. 2 balls before the "rotation" part of the game, I would set up to get on the lowest # ball....I'm having ALOT of fun with this.....Gerry

 

[Williebetmore]

In my first 2 sets, I went into clusters EVERY chance I got. I played it like I would play 14.1, mainly trying to leave NO clusters for the remaining 5 balls. 2 balls before the "rotation" part of the game, I would set up to get on the lowest # ball....I'm having ALOT of fun with this.....Gerry

Gerry,
I probably should have qualified the advice by saying it is generally for the average player. The below-average players are just trying to make a few balls; the pro-like players who can make any freaking shot they look at, can just fire in the balls without giving much consideration to these type of principles.

I've seen Alex Pagulayan and TheOne run substantial balls in straight pool ignoring many of these principles; and the results are impressive - superior ball pocketing skills make up for a LOT.

 

[Jason Robichaud]

I like to start with the middle table balls leaving less chance of a hook. I try to leave my last five balls close to side rails and corners. Clusters, I play like I would in snooker. I don't break them just because they get bunched. I try to take a ball that will open the cluster to the corner pockets. Many times I see groups of 5-6 balls clustered and only 1-2 of those balls are blockers. Why chance splitting the cluster and create another. Next to that, I take the easy balls.

I am really enjoying this game. It is a great warm-up that keeps pressure on each shot. Great fun!!!

 

[JLW]

I had never tried this challenge before, but I found some interesting things.

#1- The break is extremely important. I got the best results breaking head on with follow at about 1/2 speed. Leaves a good spread and leaves the cb pretty much in the middle of the open pack.

#2- Take the 1 shot penalty if you need it after the break. Even if you only run 5 or 10 balls, that's better than getting a 0 because you tried to pull off some circus shot after the break.

#3- Don't let one bad game affect your next games.

#4- I should have played slower. Most of the shots I missed were fairly routine shots that I just lost concentration on. I think I'll try another session where I spead the games out over several days instead of all in one night.

#5- This relates to #3. I need to stick to a pre-shot routine on every shot. I often felt myself rushing to get through the game instead of taking my time on each shot.

I'd be interested to hear what anyone else has found. All in all, I can't be too disappointed with my results, considering how many hours a week I play. Like I said before, I think I'll try to play another session and see if I notice an appreciable difference.

 

[Rod]

Personally I think the game of Fargo is a better challenge since you score two points for each ball you shoot in rotation. You get to pick when you start rotation, until then each ball counts as one point. Sometimes you can run the whole rack and score high. It's a game of risk vers reward.

That being said were not playing that game but the order in how they are racked is important. Although in this game its not as important but it still matters to a degree. I haven't played yet but my stratgey will be just like 14-1 keeping in mind which balls to run as the last 5 from the start. I'll break about 2/3's speed over a diamond from center, since the balls and table are in such crappy condition. More on that later but this table easily wins the booby award for this tournament. I'm pretty sure I'll still score pretty good but throw on this table is is way more than any table I've ever played on, except one. I agree with most other comments but I thought most was just common sense.

Rod

 

[chefjeff]

I agree to some extent with the Chef-man. I think all clusters should be broken safely, and it is a very rare rack where that is not possible (depends on how high you set your sights). Very good advice though if your goal is not 20 every rack.

Well, my goal is 20---on MOST racks, anyway....some racks won't lend themselves to that goal, so it is those racks particularly that I look at the numbers more carefully and compensate to get the best score I can, vs. a single digit score, my specialty. And I agree, it depends on a player's skill level and goals as to which choices he makes....or does it? Maybe setting a goal too high is just as bad as setting a goal too low?

Take care of trouble balls, rail balls, and clusters AS SOON AS POSSIBLE.

I try to leave my last five balls close to side rails and corners

These seeminly contradictory thoughts from two good shooters has now confused me a little bit. I was thinking as Jason does that the last five can pretty much be anywhere, and maybe even on the side rails is better as that keeps them out of the way for the first ten. I was thinking along those lines with my first post concerning clusters and their numbers, btw.

Jeff Livingston

 

[girlwon1]

Personally I think the game of Fargo is a better challenge since you score two points for each ball you shoot in rotation. You get to pick when you start rotation, until then each ball counts as one point. Sometimes you can run the whole rack and score high. It's a game of risk vers reward.

That being said were not playing that game but the order in how they are racked is important. Although in this game its not as important but it still matters to a degree. I haven't played yet but my stratgey will be just like 14-1 keeping in mind which balls to run as the last 5 from the start. I'll break about 2/3's speed over a diamond from center, since the balls and table are in such crappy condition. More on that later but this table easily wins the booby award for this tournament. I'm pretty sure I'll still score pretty good but throw on this table is is way more than any table I've ever played on, except one. I agree with most other comments but I thought most was just common sense.

Rod

Hi Rod,

I am pretty sure you have to break from the headspot.

 

[Jersey]

Uh...Strategy???

Man...ran some 'Warm Up' Sets yesterday, and It was a real eye opener! I haven't played Straight Pool in a Very, Very Long Time...but soon realized that it was going to take a combination of game skills to be successful at this challenge...thanks Chef and of course WBM for sheading light on what's required to be successful playing this game...coaching my 8-Ball Team yesterday I ran one set as a warm up just to get the feel of the game...and one bad decision makes it tough to get past 10!...I had WAY to many singles! Playing tonight I will focus more on the stratagies WBM lays out and see if I have a Break Through!...post my results tomorrow...hopefully they won't be to embarassing!...or at least be all double digits!...don't see to many 20's though!

Great Challenge!

 

[Williebetmore]

Maybe setting a goal too high is just as bad as setting a goal too low?





These seeminly contradictory thoughts from two good shooters has now confused me a little bit. I was thinking as Jason does that the last five can pretty much be anywhere, and maybe even on the side rails is better as that keeps them out of the way for the first ten. I was thinking along those lines with my first post concerning clusters and their numbers, btw.

Jeff Livingston

ChefJeff,
Your thinking is very sound - your strategy must depend on your skill level. A great teacher said, "Confidence without the ability to back it up is just bravado."

As far as rail balls go; not all rail balls are created equal. A rail ball , just off the rail and close to a corner pocket can be a good friend. The closer to the rail it gets and the farther from a corner pocket it gets makes it more and more of an enemy. If it offers natural position on the next ball, and easy access to get to it, then it certainly can be left for late in the rack. A superior shooter is going to make the ball wherever it is, and get whatever position he needs. The lesser player (like me for instance) can never escape the fact that the rail balls far away from the corners offer:

- fewer options for pocketing (usually only 1 realistic pocket it can go in).
- fewer options for obtaining the proper position to make them (the make percentage on these shots can be quite a bit lower if you miss position by even a little).
- fewer options for getting proper position after making them.
- less room for error if a hard stroke must be used.

These facts are difficult to contest; all of the great straight pool players of my acquaintance feel strongly about rail balls being the enemy. BUT, the fact remains that all of these straight pool principles MUST be violated frequently (I daresay almost every rack or two) to play good straights. Learning when you must violate the principle, and when not to, is the art of the game. On many shots you will have to violate one principle in order to follow another - that is why 14.1 is the greatest game - it is an intellectual as well as a physical pursuit.

Above all else, the great straight pool players seem to be practical; and most have said that if your strategy gets you through the rack, then it was the correct strategy for you. Much like golf, "It's not how, it's how many."

 

[chefjeff]

This one concerns the break shot....

For some reason, that damn cueball has been finding its way into the kitchen waaaay too often, no matter what I'm putting on it. I try to hit it full with stop, which is usually what happens, but...there's always a "but," isn't there?...but a ball seems to, too often, bump the cueball towards me and towards the kitchen where it rolls to a stop without leaving a good starter shot. Bad ball...bad!

So, I've made a specific goal to not leave the cb in the kitchen after the break. Sounds kinda dumb to make that a goal, but I've varied my break to help acheive this. I'm not putting stop on the cb anymore, but am hitting just a little higher so the cueball pushes forward just a little bit so it fights from being pushed back into the kitchen. I haven't scratched in a corner yet and the cb is learning to stay closer to the middle of the table.

Outta the kitchen, cueball!!!...I'm cookin'...leave me alone!

Jeff Livingston

 

[chefjeff]

I wanna know Jason's strategies! (Why are there so many good players named, "Jason?")

Round #2: 20,20,20,20,20,19,20,20,20,18 = 197

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Last edited by Jason Robichaud : 11-27-2005 at 09:45 PM.

Damn nice shooting, Jason.

Jeff Livingston

 

[BillYards]

I am really liking the sound of this game, as it is similar to a practice method I have been using for years. My game was to throw out 15 balls and run them out without missing. I could gauge my skill level by penalizing myself for a miss by drawing out 2 balls or more. I quickly got up to drawing 6 or more balls out for every miss.

But, my strategy will also help in this game (I think). My main method was to try to start from one end of the table and work across the side pockes to the other end. If you can consistently work the table like that, then your rotation shots should all be fairly close to the corners at one end. Of course this game is much more difficult than my practice game, but I am certain a similar method will work.

I will post scores later this week.... I am waiting to do it with a new cue that is in transit... UPS is letting me down! I might have to start with my old cue. How long do we have to get it all finished?

 

[Rod]

Hi Rod,

I am pretty sure you have to break from the headspot.

OOP'S, I just read the official rules. It does say from the head spot. Its ok I haven't started yet, prolonged until they turn on the heat, burr its to cold in there for me. Thanks for telling me.

Rod

 

[Jason Robichaud]

Jeff,

the balls broke really well and I had good chances at almost every table. The only problems were the ones I created. I broke hard with top/right aiming left half object ball. The cue traveled, however, I got the best spread.

Strategies:

I pick my balls that I want to play in groups of 3, the ball I am shooting and the next 2. I picture them gone and look at the problem/clusters for improvement or development opportunity on each ball. I get a good look at where I am trying to go with the run. That said, sometimes I had to hit, hope and lean really hard toward the pockets.

I am going to keep trying this practice. I think 700's would be good for me. 900 is high. I had a lot of luck on the breaks. The hard tables I got stumped like everyone else.

Jason

 

[chefjeff]

Jeff,

the balls broke really well and I had good chances at almost every table. The only problems were the ones I created. I broke hard with top/right aiming left half object ball. The cue traveled, however, I got the best spread.

Strategies:

I pick my balls that I want to play in groups of 3, the ball I am shooting and the next 2. I picture them gone and look at the problem/clusters for improvement or development opportunity on each ball. I get a good look at where I am trying to go with the run. That said, sometimes I had to hit, hope and lean really hard toward the pockets.

I am going to keep trying this practice. I think 700's would be good for me. 900 is high. I had a lot of luck on the breaks. The hard tables I got stumped like everyone else.

Jason

Well not exactly like everyone else....

Thanks for replying. I think I'll practice your break method and see if that helps. Starting out with a nice open table sure makes it easier.

I lean and lean, but the balls don't care.

Jeff Livingston

 

[uwate]

Just played my first three sessions. Very entertaining exercise, it got me motivated to play three solid hrs by myself on my home table, which just about never, ever, ever, ever happens. Usually i'm good after 15 min and then boredom sets in quickly.

When I caught a gear I noticed a few things:
a) Solid medium speed break with cueball control seemed to be the most effective.
b) You must pick off the balls near or on the rails asap.
c) Hanging balls and balls that clear out paths for other balls should be taken early. Hanging balls are too hard to play position with to leave for the end imo, unless the next shot only requires a simple stop shot or rail first shot.
d) Much like straight pool you need to plan for key ball to get to the break shot, in this case the key ball to get to the lowest ball among the final 5. My preference was a stop shot followed by second choice which was a leave that allowed me the angle to move into line, and then last choice was to take the key ball shot where your position play crosses over the path that is in line.

Edit: Sorry Williebetmore, I posted to this thread and then read the thread...figures that just the second post covered nearly all what I had to say. This game is very similar to straight pool and most of the straight pool principles apply, especially the parts about cluster management and short distance cueball position play. If you find your cueball bouncing off rails on the majority of your shots, you will likely have a difficult time consistently getting all the way out.

 

[Gerry]

My MAIN thought while shooting this game, and 14.1 for that matter is, play position on more than 1 ball every shot (pre-rotation), that way you have many choices.

I try to keep it simple also:

Clear the pocket paths...
Get rid of the tough rail balls...
Open clusters that don't go...
Play to more than 1 option (see above)

Good Luck.....Gerry

 

[DaveK]

I got my first set in last night. As always, lessons were learned. The biggest one from last night is "don't miss your breakout 3 times in a row" And another bit of local knowledge : "clear the balls off the lower rails early so that other balls collecting there later won't create clusters" (see my equipment description in the Official Scores thread).

Dave