Stroke Analysis - Doug Quara

[sparkle84]

I'm going to say this one last time because I really do feel sorry for you.

You think you're not playing in a vacuum but you are. All this well intended advice here is getting you nowhere. You say that you play league matches and you practice at home. That formula isn't working for you. What's missing --- and this comes from experience --- is becoming a regular in your local pool room, hanging around watching players and playing other people every day, not just league nights. When you play other people on a daily basis and become part of the sub-culture of a pool room, your focus changes from internal to external. You need to get out of your own head. Be around other players. Watch them. Listen to them. Become a regular. Practice with them. Match up, even if just for the tab.

Continue to play your leagues, and spend more time in the pool room and less at home alone.

You don't believe that something like that would help your fundamentals improve without your practicing them, right? You'd be surprised.

Couldn't have said it better. Particularly the last paragraph. I tried saying something similar back in post 11 but don't think I was forceful enough. You were.
How many have you seen doing this over the years? Right now I know of 4 guys that come in the poolroom who are members of this club.
What is going to happen to them over the next few years is very predictable, see post 18.
This phenomenon started with the internet. Back in the day if you wanted to learn pool it had to be at the poolroom. It's still the best way although the internet is a great help if used properly.
Only thing I disagree with in your post is "continue to play your leagues" I'd amend that to continue to play the 14.1 league.
IMO there are zero reasons to be in the APA other than to have a night out drinking with friends. Doug can correct me if needed but I don't think that's his objective.
I heard him when he said at 67 he wasn't looking to be a world beater just a good hobbyist. On the other hand he seems serious about improving. In that case it would seem prudent to get the most bang for your buck. JMO but that's best achieved taking Fran's path.

 

[FranCrimi]

Couldn't have said it better. Particularly the last paragraph. I tried saying something similar back in post 11 but don't think I was forceful enough. You were.
How many have you seen doing this over the years? Right now I know of 4 guys that come in the poolroom who are members of this club.
What is going to happen to them over the next few years is very predictable, see post 18.
This phenomenon started with the internet. Back in the day if you wanted to learn pool it had to be at the poolroom. It's still the best way although the internet is a great help if used properly.
Only thing I disagree with in your post is "continue to play your leagues" I'd amend that to continue to play the 14.1 league.
IMO there are zero reasons to be in the APA other than to have a night out drinking with friends. Doug can correct me if needed but I don't think that's his objective.
I heard him when he said at 67 he wasn't looking to be a world beater just a good hobbyist. On the other hand he seems serious about improving. In that case it would seem prudent to get the most bang for your buck. JMO but that's best achieved taking Fran's path.

I hadn't seen your post #11. I think it 's right on target and shows great insight. I think you're right in that internet learning has changed the dynamic of how people perceive the game and the learning process. And as you pointed out, online learning does serve a purpose but it's not the only way to learn.

 

[boogieman]

I'm going to say this one last time because I really do feel sorry for you.

You think you're not playing in a vacuum but you are. All this well intended advice here is getting you nowhere. You say that you play league matches and you practice at home. That formula isn't working for you. What's missing --- and this comes from experience --- is becoming a regular in your local pool room, hanging around watching players and playing other people every day, not just league nights. When you play other people on a daily basis and become part of the sub-culture of a pool room, your focus changes from internal to external. You need to get out of your own head. Be around other players. Watch them. Listen to them. Become a regular. Practice with them. Match up, even if just for the tab.

Continue to play your leagues, and spend more time in the pool room and less at home alone.

You don't believe that something like that would help your fundamentals improve without your practicing them, right? You'd be surprised.

Great post Fran. Watching other players IRL is important. Watching how a better player strokes a ball plus seeing their patterns does something. It's easier for me to emulate something I see in reality than over a video. Just watching some good players play and run some balls/racks can teach you so much without even trying.

I saw Kristina Tkach at the Midwest Expo 4 or 5 years ago. I had no idea who she was, never heard of her (didn't follow pool) and at that point she was playing in an open event. I just happened to see her shoot as I was waiting between matches. I had never seen anyone IRL shoot like that. Precise, repeated fundamentals, just playing patterns and running balls. It really opened my eyes to how real pool is played. The same watching some of the pros there, but until that point I was just tuned in on playing in the tourney. After that I spent my breaks watching the good players. It was an eye opener. Video does not do the game justice. The pros on TV... sure they play perfect, but to see it in person with your own eyes!

 

[dquarasr]

Thanks PJ.

I’m disheartened. I thought I had made significant progress. Maybe I have. I am pretty sure I’m shooting better. But to record myself and notice I’m still fighting the same demons……

Unseen by you all, and I can’t believe I’m typing this, are more than a dozen videos over the last hour which show me popping up right at cue impact with the CB. I F-ING KNOW BETTER!!!!!!

And I’m having a hard time understanding how my backstroke comes toward my body in spite of it feeling straight, which ends up causing a chicken wing elbow coming out. It’s not nearly as bad as it was three-four months ago but I am at a loss on how to fix it. I need a very good mechanics coach.

Here’s what I’m gonna do in the short term, tonight and tomorrow. My son is coming for a visit. I’m gonna leave the table alone. I might even stay away from azb and give everything a fresh look Sunday or Monday. Tonight I’m bummed so thinking about it any more will do more harm than good.

“See” you all in two days.

I stayed away the last two days, away from the table and AZB. This morning I was showing my 10-year-old grandson, who was absolutely intrigued with the pool table, how to line up. He is a fast learner. He went from not being able to hold the cue, to shooting balls in table-length directly into pockets. I taught him how to find the shot line, align his feet, get down on the shot, and align his head, front hand, back hand, and elbow along the shot line. He caught on REALLY quickly. But the family left a little while ago to go back home. Showing him how to shoot gave me fresh perspective and took off the pressure I put on myself.

I'm going to say this one last time because I really do feel sorry for you.

You think you're not playing in a vacuum but you are. All this well intended advice here is getting you nowhere. You say that you play league matches and you practice at home. That formula isn't working for you. What's missing --- and this comes from experience --- is becoming a regular in your local pool room, hanging around watching players and playing other people every day, not just league nights. When you play other people on a daily basis and become part of the sub-culture of a pool room, your focus changes from internal to external. You need to get out of your own head. Be around other players. Watch them. Listen to them. Become a regular. Practice with them. Match up, even if just for the tab.

Continue to play your leagues, and spend more time in the pool room and less at home alone.

You don't believe that something like that would help your fundamentals improve without your practicing them, right? You'd be surprised.

Thanks for your perspective, Fran. I know you have tried to be forceful yet diplomatic with me over the last year or so and I appreciate it, even if I don't seem to learn from your advice.

I admit when I first read your second paragraph above, I was dubious. But the more I thought about it the more it made sense. Problem is that it's not practical for me to become a rail bird or a spend a lot of time at the hall. I will have to depend on my three league matches (8-ball, 9-ball double-jeopardy nights, and 14.1 night) at the hall, playing one of my friends informally (but competitively) at his house every so often, and my practice at home.

But what you said did hit home, somewhat, as much as my stubbornness and OCD allows. With that realization, I write the following statements, knowing that I will very soon, probably as soon as tomorrow or even today, forget some of these tidbits and admissions:

- I am a technique junkie, and I focus far too much on the mechanics. I know that I had a large improvement when I "let go" and tried to allow my subconscious to reign, but I admit I continually have to remind myself to "trust the process".

- I am compulsively compelled to over-analyze everything. I do this because for the most part, in pool and in nearly every endeavor in life (including my career), this has mostly served me well, so it is hard for me NOT to be analytic, to a fault.

- I will, yet again, try to let it happen, allow my brain to unconsciously make the technique adjustments.

- During league nights, I will engage in after-league informal matches. I can't say I'll subscribe to gamboling, but I may if the mood strikes. I will try doing so when my next-day schedule allows a 2am night.

I'm sure you'll be reading something here a few weeks or months from now with me having strayed from what I just wrote above, residing fully back in my own head, and at that time, please feel free to remind me of this post.

I'm an enigma and can be my own worst enemy. Wish me luck.

 

[2andOUT]

Update: I've recently had what I consider another breakthrough. My confidence level is even higher now.

I started aligning with the tip contact point on the CB about 1/8 to 1/4 tip LEFT of where I perceive the center. And the difference has been a-maz-ing. Apparently, my perception (as I'm sure many players at my skill level may experience) of me placing the cue tip is actually off slightly to the right. I've always struggled with unintended right spin, and I've tried with varying success to quell it, and at times I thought I have cured it. But I'm pretty confident I have found another of my personal "a-ha" moments.

I've been able to pot straight-in shots with much more regularity, even those with some pace. I just shot the spot-to-spot-return-the-CB-to-the-tip drill using this left-of-center perception, and I've hit 10 out of 10 returning the CB to my tip. I've never been able to do that before for more than a couple in a row. I checked it just now by aligning somewhere between 1/8 and 1/4 tip left of my perceived center, then carefully laying the cue down on the table. Even though when down on the shot it appears that the tip is left of center, when I check it this way and stand up and objectively look at where the tip is addressing the CB, it's dead center.

I am unsure whether I should change anything so my perception is better. Right now, I'm starting to do run-outs. I've made 4-, 5-, 6-, and 7-ball rotation runouts. My BCA straight pool matches have been pretty good. I'm surprising myself on loooonnngggg shots, even those where I'm jacked up a bit. I think I'll simply go with it.

this was my issue only opposite, for quite awhile. Charley Hillbilly Bryant fixed me. he taught me to match the tip radius to the top of the cueball, if the top of the tip matches top of cueball i'm at horizontal center. just a thought. Good Luck on your improvement.

 

[FranCrimi]

I stayed away the last two days, away from the table and AZB. This morning I was showing my 10-year-old grandson, who was absolutely intrigued with the pool table, how to line up. He is a fast learner. He went from not being able to hold the cue, to shooting balls in table-length directly into pockets. I taught him how to find the shot line, align his feet, get down on the shot, and align his head, front hand, back hand, and elbow along the shot line. He caught on REALLY quickly. But the family left a little while ago to go back home. Showing him how to shoot gave me fresh perspective and took off the pressure I put on myself.


Thanks for your perspective, Fran. I know you have tried to be forceful yet diplomatic with me over the last year or so and I appreciate it, even if I don't seem to learn from your advice.

I admit when I first read your second paragraph above, I was dubious. But the more I thought about it the more it made sense. Problem is that it's not practical for me to become a rail bird or a spend a lot of time at the hall. I will have to depend on my three league matches (8-ball, 9-ball double-jeopardy nights, and 14.1 night) at the hall, playing one of my friends informally (but competitively) at his house every so often, and my practice at home.

But what you said did hit home, somewhat, as much as my stubbornness and OCD allows. With that realization, I write the following statements, knowing that I will very soon, probably as soon as tomorrow or even today, forget some of these tidbits and admissions:

- I am a technique junkie, and I focus far too much on the mechanics. I know that I had a large improvement when I "let go" and tried to allow my subconscious to reign, but I admit I continually have to remind myself to "trust the process".

- I am compulsively compelled to over-analyze everything. I do this because for the most part, in pool and in nearly every endeavor in life (including my career), this has mostly served me well, so it is hard for me NOT to be analytic, to a fault.

- I will, yet again, try to let it happen, allow my brain to unconsciously make the technique adjustments.

- During league nights, I will engage in after-league informal matches. I can't say I'll subscribe to gamboling, but I may if the mood strikes. I will try doing so when my next-day schedule allows a 2am night.

I'm sure you'll be reading something here a few weeks or months from now with me having strayed from what I just wrote above, residing fully back in my own head, and at that time, please feel free to remind me of this post.

I'm an enigma and can be my own worst enemy. Wish me luck.

I made very clear what I believe you need. You're already putting limitations on it. It sounds like you're interpreting me as saying you should spend all day every day in a pool room. You even accused me of suggesting that you become a railbird. If you're a railbird, you're not a player. Watching a match here and there does not make you a railbird. Even pros watch matches. Does that make them railbirds?

What I'm seeing here is resistance and no, I'm not going to remind you. That's not my job.

 

[dquarasr]

I made very clear what I believe you need. You're already putting limitations on it. It sounds like you're interpreting me as saying you should spend all day every day in a pool room. You even accused me of suggesting that you become a railbird. If you're a railbird, you're not a player. Watching a match here and there does not make you a railbird. Even pros watch matches. Does that make them railbirds?

What I'm seeing here is resistance and no, I'm not going to remind you. That's not my job.

Geez, Fran, this is right in line with nearly all of your other posts where you provide your input, to me and others.

I'll be blunt: I find you high and mighty (not in a good way) and unnecessarily acerbic. PLEASE feel free not to remind me, and I'd be OK if you don't ever respond again to any of my posts.

I explained my limitations on how much time I can spend in a pool hall. You interpreted that as "resistance". Sheesh.

 

[7stud]

Unseen by you all, and I can’t believe I’m typing this, are more than a dozen videos over the last hour which show me popping up right at cue impact with the CB. I F-ING KNOW BETTER!!!!!!

I noticed that right away in your black tshirt video and the head on camera angle. When you missed the fast shot, before your cue tip hit the table, you had already jumped up. Mark Wilson says that part of evaluating a shot involves observing where your cue tip ends up relative to the shot line. You might consider doing some practice shots where after you hit the cb, you count to five before moving. While you are frozen in place with nothing to do, you could take a look at where your cue tip hit the table relative to the shot line. When I practice, I put a donut hole sticky about 5 inches beyond the sticky for the cb, directly on the shot line, so I can observe where my tip ends up.