Stroke Analysis / Help

K

kaffeineman

Registered
Hello,

I am looking to get any feedback on my stroke. I have the side view video up on Youtube, and am processing the rear view and hopefully the front view as well (although my face is out of focus). As per suggestion I did these 3 angles; and just shot center, follow, and draw in that order for each video.

I have been playing for about 5-6 months now, and am wanting to really bring my game up. I figured the best way to start was to nail down my stroke, and then work on shot-making drills. As fun as it is to just play games with friends, I want to make my table time more valuable.

Any instructors please feel free to chime in, and I will add the links to the other videos as I get them processed and posted.

http://youtu.be/G4Bhi5rWNAY - Side View

http://youtu.be/JQG195JB65A - Rear View
Thanks in advance for any advice!

-Tyler
 
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I forgot to mention, one thing that I noticed right away was that I got a little "jabby" on some draw shots in the last third of this video (as well as a miscue and accidental jump shot....). I recognized this while shooting, and tried to follow through on my draw stroke better; but continued to notice the problem.
 
140 views and no comments huh? I can only assume that my stroke mechanics are rock solid and I should pursue a full time career in pool :)
 
Your stroke doesn't look horrible but honestly, it is kind of irrelevant. You appear to have no Pre Shot Routine and as a result, you're not getting yourself properly aligned. Your reasonably straight stroke is driving the ball into the rail a diamond from the pocket because you're not properly aligned to your target. That most certainly will also affect your stroke.

There are numerous excellent professional instructors that post in this forum. By the way, I'm not one of them so I have no horse in this race. I would recommend that you make an investment in a couple of lessons with one or more of them. I would recommend you work with someone who uses video analysis so you can see what's going on with your stroke and alignment. I predict you'll be shocked at your rate of improvement should you act on that recommendation.
 
kaffeineman said:
Hello,

I am looking to get any feedback on my stroke. I have the side view video up on Youtube, and am processing the rear view and hopefully the front view as well (although my face is out of focus). As per suggestion I did these 3 angles; and just shot center, follow, and draw in that order for each video.

I have been playing for about 5-6 months now, and am wanting to really bring my game up. I figured the best way to start was to nail down my stroke, and then work on shot-making drills. As fun as it is to just play games with friends, I want to make my table time more valuable.

Any instructors please feel free to chime in, and I will add the links to the other videos as I get them processed and posted.


http://youtu.be/G4Bhi5rWNAY - Side View

http://youtu.be/JQG195JB65A - Rear View
Thanks in advance for any advice!

-Tyler
Click to expand...


Your alignment is off, causing you to lean to the left to get your arm through. Do some research on feet position and alignment.

Regarding your grip: I don't like that open-closed thing you do with your back hand as you are stroking. That comes from gripping the cue with the first two or three fingers rather than a more even distribution. Try experimenting with a full fist grip, but relax it. I predict that eventually you will start to develop a twisting habit if you continue with your present grip. I have observed that most amateur players who use the front part of their hand are prone to that problem. I've often referred to those first two fingers the twisting fingers.

I wish that you didn't video yourself shooting the same shot for a half hour total. I'd like to have seen how you move around the table shooting different shots. My conclusions above are regarding that one shot only. Things may or may not change for other shots, depending on how you address them.

I do appreciate that you haven't set your video to a sound track like others who have posted their vids here have done. It's important to hear the sound of the hit whenever possible, not to mention --- if I wanted to go see a feature film, I'd rather watch a real movie.

Good luck. You've got potential if you're only playing 5 months. Keep at it.
 
Tyler, this will get long, but bear with it. First off, my hat is off to you on being willing to ask for help so early in your game, and for sticking with one shot as long as you did in the videos. That shows that you have the dedication you will need to get good at this game.

- By shooting the same shot over and over, you ingrain how it should feel to you. That is great! The bad part is, you are ingraining some bad habits right off the get go that will hold you back later on. If at all possible, now is the time to get with a qualified instructor to set you on the right path. If you can't afford one now, try and get Mark Wilsons book "Play Great Pool". It will go in depth on the whys and hows much more than can be done on here.

- Don't take offense to anything I say here, and don't take the attitude of "guess I suck, might as well quit with this much wrong". EVERYBODIES stoke can use improvement, no matter how good they play now. Here are some of the things I see right off the bat for you to work on...

1.As Fran mentioned, your grip is wrong. The way you are holding it induces "steering" of the cue. You have your knuckles cocked outward. The back of your hand should just be hanging straight down. same as it does without a cue in your hand. The cue should rest on your fingers lightly curled around the cue. Squeezing only tight enough that the cue does not slide back and forth in your hand.

2. Your alignment is wrong. You have the cue too close to your body. Preventing proper clearance. (which is why your hand is cocked outward) The cue should be under or very close to under your shoulder. Your upper arm should then be right over the cue. You want it to where when you stroke forward naturally, the cue goes dead straight.

3. Your feet are in the wrong place, which causes your alignment to be off. Your right foot should have the toes on the shot line. Your left foot should be to the left much more than you have it now. Having your left foot so close in line with your right foot causes your loss of balance. Notice that on almost all shots, your body sways a little bit. It's not solid. Moving your left foot out will also change the alignment of the cue to your shoulder and arm.

4. Your arm should be perpendicular to the floor when the tip is at the cb. (or slightly forward) You have it slightly backwards. This also can cause some steering of the cue.

5. You have your elbow pulled to the inside of your body to get the perpendicular forearm to the floor. This also will cause some steering of the cue, rather than an easy natural forward motion of the cue that is easily repeatable.

6. Can't really see your eyes, but it looks like you are only looking at the ob. You should look at the cb to ensure that you are going to hit it exactly where you want to, pause at the cb, shift your eyes to the ob, then slowly pull back. Pause, then go forward right through the cb.

7. You step back into the shot, where it is better to step into the shot.

That's enough for you to work on for now. I can tell from your videos that you are really trying to do it right. That's fantastic! Keep up the good work, and you will soon have a game to be proud of!
 
For only 6 months play, I think you shoot really good, especially the later draw shots.You seem more confident hitting the ball harder, which is natural.

Personally, I'd just continue doing what you are doing - it'll come with time.

You have the basis of a good snooker stance, and could really go for it by locking your right knee. This would help with some of the instability problems you have. It is great you are low down on the shot, with your cue on the chin.

You should also be conscious of your timing - you jab at the ball a bit and warm up strokes are inconsistent - it's impossible to predict when you are going to pull the trigger, and I don't think you really know, either. Your cue sort of recoils at times, when it should go through in a straight line, smoothly. Pick a routine and stick to it for an entire session, to see how you go. Say, pause at the CB, three warm up strokes, pause and the CB, then fire.

I would also recommend playing faster. Have the balls in a line, and move from one to another sequentially. Play as many shots in as you can, and learn to hit the CB in the middle - the most difficult (and most beneficial) thing in pool.
 
TheThaiger said:
For only 6 months play.......

Personally, I'd just continue doing what you are doing - it'll come with time. ...........
Click to expand...

So, at what point should he stop doing what he's doing and make some positive changes?

This is why I don't like to see people who haven't studied the art and science of teaching, try to give advice. That doesn't mean that all teachers know how to teach. I think it's been made very clear here that it's not the case.

However, if you're going to give advice, make sure you're clear as to what you mean. I'm hoping you didn't mean that he shouldn't change anything and that the changes will occur miraculously all on their own.

So if you didn't mean that, you should have made your point clearer.
 
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Thanks everyone for the good criticism, especially regarding stance, alignment, grip, and timing. These are all things I will work on and change immediately. Unfortunately funding doesn't allow for me to take lessons right now, as well as being 300-400 miles from the closest PBIA instructor. Maybe during the summer I could make a trip up to Seattle.

Neil, regarding one of your #3 comment, I am a little confused. Just grabbing my cue at home and practicing stroking on my dining table (30" high), it seems very un-natural to have my right foot in-line with the shot line. It causes me to twist my entire torso about 30-40 degrees clockwise. I had always thought that if you shoot right handed that you want your left foot on the shot line. Of course, this could have easily been my mis-interpretation.


EDIT: I see what you mean now, right foot TOES on the shot line; not my entire foot in-line with the shot. This makes much more sense, and is easy to see that this will help a lot. Dr. Dave had a quick little video that described your comment well for me. Now I want to go to the pool hall and practice!
 
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If you can't get lessons at this time, do yourself a huge favor and purchase Mark Wilson's book. You can read reviews on it in the Main Forum. It is the best instructional pool book available, bar none. Jerry Brieseth's DVD's are also great.
 
FranCrimi said:
So, at what point should he stop doing what he's doing and make some positive changes?

This is why I don't like to see people who haven't studied the art and science of teaching, try to give advice. That doesn't mean that all teachers know how to teach. I think it's been made very clear here that it's not the case.

However, if you're going to give advice, make sure you're clear as to what you mean. I'm hoping you didn't mean that he shouldn't change anything and that the changes will occur miraculously all on their own.

So if you didn't mean that, you should have made your point clearer.
Click to expand...

Thank you for your concern.

I'm glad you mentioned clarity. Now, about that cut break again...can you give us your expert instructors' advice on the cut break, please? Y'know, for clarity...
 
Capelle's worth while?

nobcitypool said:
If you can't get lessons at this time, do yourself a huge favor and purchase Mark Wilson's book. You can read reviews on it in the Main Forum. It is the best instructional pool book available, bar none. Jerry Brieseth's DVD's are also great.
Click to expand...

I would love to get this book, as I have heard fantastic reviews from members around here on it. If, say, I were even more budget conscious ( I just had to replace a bed, dresser, and mattress...); does Capelle's "Play Your Best Pool" offer good info for beginners? I have his Practicing Pool book, and while it seems very useful and nice to have at the pool hall; it seems like more of a practicing companion rather than purely fundamentals.

I know it may seem moot to argue getting a $20 book versus a $70 book to most people around here, but I am more or less curious if Capelle offers anything close in comparison to Wilson. I AM going to get Wilson's book eventually, but in the interim I am looking at Capelle.
 
FranCrimi said:
Regarding your grip: I don't like that open-closed thing you do with your back hand as you are stroking. That comes from gripping the cue with the first two or three fingers rather than a more even distribution. Try experimenting with a full fist grip, but relax it. I predict that eventually you will start to develop a twisting habit if you continue with your present grip. I have observed that most amateur players who use the front part of their hand are prone to that problem. I've often referred to those first two fingers the twisting fingers.
.
Click to expand...

Are you referring to this style of grip as used by 7 times world champion and countless other multiple world champions?
http://youtu.be/Aor1dnndksU?t=3m24s
 
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TheThaiger said:
Thank you for your concern.

I'm glad you mentioned clarity. Now, about that cut break again...can you give us your expert instructors' advice on the cut break, please? Y'know, for clarity...
Click to expand...

I've already explained the cut break. How much clarity do you need? Do you have problems understanding people?
 
Slasher said:
Are you referring to this style of grip as used by 7 times world champion and countless other multiple world champions?
http://youtu.be/Aor1dnndksU?t=3m24s
Click to expand...


Fran used the word *prone* - so it s a clear answer! she said that it "COULD" be a criticial point. And she s very right- if you don t have a perfect timing, it s very easy to fall into this *curling issue* by executing this technique for a grip not perfectly.

That it works for many strong players is a fact-and noone here said that it would be a bad idea to *use* it. It s just not that easy.

@Fran : have a great day Mylady :-)
 
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