Stroke help

jalapus logan

be all. and supports it to
Silver Member
If one is having trouble applying backhand english delivering the cueing action with a pendulum stroke and a slight up/down motion and/or slight side to side swiping action, is it best to look at the cue ball or object ball first and/or last?

Thanks as always for your help.
 
If one is having trouble applying backhand english delivering the cueing action with a pendulum stroke and a slight up/down motion and/or slight side to side swiping action, is it best to look at the cue ball or object ball first and/or last?

Thanks as always for your help.
Stop trying to apply back hand english...stop thinking about english entirely....stop thinking about eye patterns...stop aiming. You will figure all of this out with the "sams" method. (Shoot a million shots)

Watch the pros...they stop, drop and shoot. That's it. If you are doing any more than that then you are adding unnecessary load.
 
If one is having trouble applying backhand english delivering the cueing action with a pendulum stroke and a slight up/down motion and/or slight side to side swiping action, is it best to look at the cue ball or object ball first and/or last?

You have to get rid of the up/down and the side-to-side before what you are looing at changes the outcome. If/when your stroke is not straight (with and without english) it does not mater where the eyes are looking--you won't make it anyway.
 
If one is having trouble applying backhand english delivering the cueing action with a pendulum stroke and a slight up/down motion and/or slight side to side swiping action, is it best to look at the cue ball or object ball first and/or last?
It's best to stroke straight. "Swiping" doesn't do anything except make accuracy/consistency harder.

pj
chgo
 
Not trying to insult or anything of the sort.
As long as you've been on this site and the qty of posts?

Why would you ask this question?

My answer/question to you is ........ Simplicity vs Complexity
Anyone that says one way ultimately does a better job than another?
Is pulling your leg, has no clue, or, or, just guess work and personal opinion.

That said, If Efren came on here and said this and that about the 2 methods??, I'd be taking notes for sure.
 
It's best to stroke straight. "Swiping" doesn't do anything except make accuracy/consistency harder.

pj
chgo
Really not arguing but have you ever asked a top professional to demonstrate how they produce maximum spin?

Was 5' away from RC at a clinic in Denver when someone asked that very question.

Personally I think you can swipe for more. I saw the man do it and my teacher taught it. But the question is what's the benefit vs time learning other things.
IDK?
 
Personally I think you can swipe for more [spin].
You're not alone in that opinion - it seems intuitively correct. But physics and logic disagree. Any contact point, angle and speed that can be produced with a swiping motion can be duplicated with a straight one, with less variability. And the tip's contact point, angle and speed at the moment of contact are all the CB can "feel" - the path it takes to get there is unknown and irrelevant.

pj
chgo
 
First off, a slight up and down motion isn't an issue. Get close to the cue ball when you address it and the tip will return to the same place on the final stroke, it doesn't matter what happens on the backswing and early part of the final stroke. The stroke needs to be straight for maybe two inches. The rest of the stroke can look like Dizzy Dean winding up to pitch a curve ball.

Now, the side to side swoop. Most times the timing will be too early or too late. Too early and you get a violent miscue. Too late and it does nothing. One time in dozens of attempts you do it perfectly! The cue ball hops around like a wild child, probably doesn't even hit the object ball, and probably gives your opponent ball in hand.

Somebody that knew no more about pool than I did taught me the swiping technique when I really couldn't run three balls. Screwed up my game for over six months and the occasional swipe crept into my game for several years.

Not sure why you are asking these questions you already know the answers to but I assume there is a purpose. Delivering the tip exactly where you want it to hit wins far more games than any swiping horizontal or vertical.

Hu
 
First off, a slight up and down motion isn't an issue. Get close to the cue ball when you address it and the tip will return to the same place on the final stroke, it doesn't matter what happens on the backswing and early part of the final stroke. The stroke needs to be straight for maybe two inches. The rest of the stroke can look like Dizzy Dean winding up to pitch a curve ball.

Now, the side to side swoop. Most times the timing will be too early or too late. Too early and you get a violent miscue. Too late and it does nothing. One time in dozens of attempts you do it perfectly! The cue ball hops around like a wild child, probably doesn't even hit the object ball, and probably gives your opponent ball in hand.

Somebody that knew no more about pool than I did taught me the swiping technique when I really couldn't run three balls. Screwed up my game for over six months and the occasional swipe crept into my game for several years.

Not sure why you are asking these questions you already know the answers to but I assume there is a purpose. Delivering the tip exactly where you want it to hit wins far more games than any swiping horizontal or vertical.

Hu
Dammit, I was going to string this charade along a little longer, but damn if truth didn't come out despite my best efforts. Consult the stroke of one Alex Pagulayan...simple and brutally effective. What about Nick Varner, who described the hitch in his back swing, but delivered a similarity devastating stroke that beat the world using a short bridge no less.

But then again, the usual questions only tend to garmer the usual answers...or is this the beer talking again???
 
Dammit, I was going to string this charade along a little longer, but damn if truth didn't come out despite my best efforts. Consult the stroke of one Alex Pagulayan...simple and brutally effective. What about Nick Varner, who described the hitch in his back swing, but delivered a similarity devastating stroke that beat the world using a short bridge no less.

But then again, the usual questions only tend to garmer the usual answers...or is this the beer talking again???


A deep dark secret, almost all of us would shoot better with a shorter bridge! The top players started using a longer bridge, must be better so all of the lesser players jumped on the bandwagon. I use a long bridge these days, comfortable and I am lazy. I played my best pool with a six or eight inch closed bridge. It wasn't cool even in that day but it made me a lot of money. A short bridge creates a short stroke. Short strokes have less to go wrong with them.

Hu
 
If one is having trouble applying backhand english delivering the cueing action with a pendulum stroke and a slight up/down motion and/or slight side to side swiping action, is it best to look at the cue ball or object ball first and/or last?

Thanks as always for your help.
This is pretty much a technique of a by-gone era now, but the pros employing that method looked at object ball last.
 
  • Like
Reactions: bbb
Really not arguing but have you ever asked a top professional to demonstrate how they produce maximum spin?

Was 5' away from RC at a clinic in Denver when someone asked that very question.

Personally I think you can swipe for more. I saw the man do it and my teacher taught it. But the question is what's the benefit vs time learning other things.
IDK?
Swiping across the strike is probably due to some nervo/phobian dysfunction. (you have my word)

In the case of your observance, I believe the swipe is to prevent ramming.
 
Learn to hit it square first.

That takes a long time, the rest will happen over time
This. The success of the BH or any pivot is based on the cue starts in the right orientation. Center ball in the case of BHE or as you do your girlfriend in the case of CTE. I think the success or failure of any method depends on getting the stick dead on the shot.
 
A deep dark secret, almost all of us would shoot better with a shorter bridge! The top players started using a longer bridge, must be better so all of the lesser players jumped on the bandwagon. I use a long bridge these days, comfortable and I am lazy. I played my best pool with a six or eight inch closed bridge. It wasn't cool even in that day but it made me a lot of money. A short bridge creates a short stroke. Short strokes have less to go wrong with them.

Hu

hu, interesting topic..
I began with a longish bridge, then lately, inspired by this place et al., sort of naturally started using a shorter bridge, and I liked it..felt like I had more control
it likely helped me, but as a relative novice it's hard to tell what helps and what doesn't sometimes
anyway, that's all been good experience, but having experimented with the knowledge that a longer bridge can help execute a power draw and power break
I'm realizing that the short bridge has sometimes prevented me from getting through the ball properly, which is of course not helpful
so, now I'm at a place where I see there's a bridge for every river's width, and instead of forcing one, I'm feeling it out more, one ball at a time
of course I wouldn't be where I'm at now, without having put the hours in and HAFTB (hitting a few thousand balls- I'm nowhere near a million)
and I still suck:LOL: getting there tho..and as ever, the process is its own reward, even when it doesn't seem like it
 
hu, interesting topic..
I began with a longish bridge, then lately, inspired by this place et al., sort of naturally started using a shorter bridge, and I liked it..felt like I had more control
it likely helped me, but as a relative novice it's hard to tell what helps and what doesn't sometimes
anyway, that's all been good experience, but having experimented with the knowledge that a longer bridge can help execute a power draw and power break
I'm realizing that the short bridge has sometimes prevented me from getting through the ball properly, which is of course not helpful
so, now I'm at a place where I see there's a bridge for every river's width, and instead of forcing one, I'm feeling it out more, one ball at a time
of course I wouldn't be where I'm at now, without having put the hours in and HAFTB (hitting a few thousand balls- I'm nowhere near a million)
and I still suck:LOL: getting there tho..and as ever, the process is its own reward, even when it doesn't seem like it


I have noticed you are a serious student of the game for quite awhile now! When it comes to the "best way" to do anything in pool there seems to always be plenty of exceptions too. Kinda like the guidelines for when to play a safety if you are playing Shane or Efren or someone else at that level. You might as well go with that kick bank that is your other alternative and go out in style because there is rarely any such thing as a safety when playing a monster!

I am always happy to credit my game theory to Buddy Hall. He said when nothing else looks good whack hell out of the cue ball and send things aflying! Not that Buddy doesn't have better options almost always but it sounds a lot better calling it the Buddy Hall theory than the Hu theory!

Hu
 
A deep dark secret, almost all of us would shoot better with a shorter bridge! The top players started using a longer bridge, must be better so all of the lesser players jumped on the bandwagon. I use a long bridge these days, comfortable and I am lazy. I played my best pool with a six or eight inch closed bridge. It wasn't cool even in that day but it made me a lot of money. A short bridge creates a short stroke. Short strokes have less to go wrong with them.

Hu
While you might be overstating it with 'almost all of us', I agree most ppl would do better with a shorter bridge. That said, they'd also do better with a more graceful and efficient swing of the cue which takes some room. But, if you're going to be muscling the cue around, you might as well do it over a shorter distance. A long bridge just gives you more room to yip it off its line.

In either case LESS IS MORE. Either keep playing tug of war with the cue but over a much shorter distance. Or do a whole lot less to execute the stroke but allow that lower (smoother) acceleration to work over a longer distance to get up to speed.
 
I realize that I'm a nobody. I'm a closet 'champion' who played very well at one point in life. I always used a very short closed bridge. Bridge length also depended on how hard or how much stroke I needed to put on the ball. Very short stroke as less can go wrong.. As far as swiping......on cut shots with the CB relatively close to the OB, you can hold up the CB better by swiping the English across the OB and having the English throw it in. The swiping motion does this.....if you just shoot straight at the OB the energy is pushing the CB straight forward maximizing how far its going to travel. By swiping you are actually shooting away from the 'normal' point of aim and directing the CB away and adjusting your aim based on how much your swiping, maximizing spin but minimizing forward movement bc you're aiming away. Hope I explained that right. It's not about more spin it's about redirecting the forward energy but stroking harder to let the English push it to the pocket.
I'll crawl back in my hole now,
 
Further confession...I literally have no idea what backhand English is even supposed to be or what it is supposed to do, but I did read the term on azb. I meant this to be a joke, but now I'm actually learning things so it's taken a turn for the better. Lol, but I guess also not lol.
 
Back
Top