Stuff.

Zphix

Zphix

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
A buddy of mine learned from a cuemaker/player that a break tip should be mostly flat, and rounded around the edges. So, I flattened some of my tip on a grinder then took it to league night last night.

Holy f*$#, sounded like a shotgun when I broke and a much stronger break! Anyway, I forgot to scuff it before taking it out, and even with a scuffer/tip pik I just couldn't get it to hold chalk on the flat portion.

Tonight, I took my serrated KABAR knife and roughed it up. Works wonders!!!

Anyway, I played a league match last night and even though I know pattern play/position play is my weak point and I've been working on it: my match last night was proof that it's bad. I'm really really really hungry to improve and despite what I'm doing I don't feel any improvement yet. I got the Zero X pattern play DVD but I need something beyond that.

The most important thing I picked up was playing position with natural angles and thing l thinking through a rack. Now I need something more but have no idea what that "more" is. I know lots of guys have much more experience than me... what is it? what do I do for practice??
 
I'm not an instructor and this may be a bit long but bear with me...
I think the best players who get better the fastest are the ones who are the best at observing. Not only observing good players and pool videos, etc., but their own games and also the way the balls move and react.

So the "more" you are talking about is just hours, months and years of observing, experimenting and refining your cue ball paths and speed control. There are lots of position drills and exercises out there that will show you the basic patterns for any game, but another thing that's useful to do is to take note of ball positions that you failed to get shape on and shoot them over and over again until you can get the cue ball to do exactly what you expect it to do. And more often than not, you'll probably find your shot choice is just too difficult to repeat consistently and then you can stop, rethink the shot and see if there's a different way to play it that might be easier and try that. Then finally ask a good player what he would do in that situation and you may find an even better solution.

It might seem like a waste of time to try to figure out the "right" way to shoot a shot yourself, when you can get the answer right away from somewhere, but it's during that process of observation, trial and error that you really start to get a feel for how the cue ball reacts and what works well and what doesn't.

Then once you go back to the drills and videos and you'll have a much better understanding of not just how, but also why they shoot the shots the way they do, and that even though it looks really simple, there are many different principles and a lot of thought behind each shot. IMO, pool isn't just about just shooting balls in and getting shape and running out (well, physically it is)... it's about obsessing over how to make each shot and each rack as absolutely simple and repeatable as possible. That's the secret (for me, anyways).

Cheers,
Vic
 
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Had an AHA moment at "you'll find your shot choice is too difficult to consistently repeat." I love your post because it feels like you clearly explained what promising players intuitively know.

As for being observant: that's me to a T. Details don't slip away from me but I find it difficult to practice the things I observe; moreover, how best to practice the things I observe?

I don't want to waste a year of time on something that might only take a week is all. I'm looking for the fastest way to improve this aspect of my game and you've definitely given me an answer.
 
Find someone who you enjoy playing with, who is willing to talk things through. When you get to a position where you aren't really comfortable with your next position, tell your friend what you were thinking and ask what he thinks.

Discuss the positives and negatives of every possibility.

One of the easiest things to do for position play is imagine the pie-shaped slice of 'acceptable' position. You should always try to have the cueball path go along the slice instead of across it. This provides the most room for speed error.

Spend time really learning what spin does for and against your play. There are a lot of shots that you can hit softer with english than trying for 'natural' shape.

Follow more and draw less.
 
A grinder and a Kabar, sound like a good start for a cue repair business! :)
 
How I stupid I must be for coming onto a POOL forum for ADVICE on pool.

Vic, El,

Thanks for your constructive replies. You both get greenies ;)
 
Zphix said:
How I stupid I must be for coming onto a POOL forum for ADVICE on pool.
Vic, El,
Thanks for your constructive replies. You both get greenies ;)
Click to expand...

Zphix, the guy who told you that there are no stupid questions on this forum was lying through his teeth. Of course, there are stupid questions. It's a forum for crissakes, their will always be stupid questions. Likewise, there will always be stupid answers. You got one just awhile ago (you know, the guy with the sandpaper?)
I can't tell you how many stupid questions I've asked, but it's been lots. But, since there will always be someone here to answer it (in my case pj), things will always work out in the end.
By-the-way, your question wasn't really stupid. Most of my answers are just smart-ass. :)
 
Zphix, I feel like I am in the same boat as you. I watch YouTube matches, play with better players when I can, practice when I can etc...

I think part of the frustration is that really good players make it look so easy and effortless. Honestly though think how much time SVB, orcullo, Efren, etc have spent playing pool. I started playing pool 2 years ago and have gotten better faster than many people I know, and I think part of it is my love for the game and also always paying attention to try to take in as much info as possible. In the end, like you, I'm trying to be as efficient as possible with practice, but this is just a really hard game with so many small details. I think there's no better teacher than experience. Have realistic goals and expectations (which is hard when one day you're running out like crazy and the next day you can't seem to get past the 4 ball against the ghost) and mostly have fun. Good luck brother.

From the deck of the SS same boat as you,

drv4
 
Zphix said:
A buddy of mine learned from a cuemaker/player that a break tip should be mostly flat, and rounded around the edges. So, I flattened some of my tip on a grinder then took it to league night last night.

Holy f*$#, sounded like a shotgun when I broke and a much stronger break! Anyway, I forgot to scuff it before taking it out, and even with a scuffer/tip pik I just couldn't get it to hold chalk on the flat portion.

Tonight, I took my serrated KABAR knife and roughed it up. Works wonders!!!

Anyway, I played a league match last night and even though I know pattern play/position play is my weak point and I've been working on it: my match last night was proof that it's bad. I'm really really really hungry to improve and despite what I'm doing I don't feel any improvement yet. I got the Zero X pattern play DVD but I need something beyond that.

The most important thing I picked up was playing position with natural angles and thing l thinking through a rack. Now I need something more but have no idea what that "more" is. I know lots of guys have much more experience than me... what is it? what do I do for practice??
Click to expand...

Actually since the Break Cue is a dedicated instrument, you can put a smaller crown on the tip to reduce SQUIRT of off hit shots.

Attached is a drawing of tip profiles....
 
I have not tried this yet but I plan to within the next couple of days. When I am at home practicing I will snap a photo right after the break so I can set up the same layout over and over until I am successful at running out that rack,.
 
I'm going to ask some of the biggest questions I've ever asked:

1) How do you consciously go about learning to command speed control? This is one big issue I have. Should I set up simple shots where I don't have to worry about CB direction, or pocketing the ball, and focus solely on getting the CB into progressively tougher areas?

2) The reason I ask for books/DVDs is so I can get a lesson basically. Something that's sound enough to produce results if I follow the lesson plan - all I'm looking for is that lesson plan.

3) What's the best way to go about learning how follow/draw, and English affect the path of the CB after contact the OB? Obviously I know what they all do fundamentally, but I think that only knowing what they do does not help.

Like, I know that follow will shorten up the angle off the OB, but not how much it will take to get to XYZ position. Basically, I've been playing position only fundamentally knowing what draw and follow with English will do. Almost guess and checking on every shot.

Do I set up shots and notice where the CB ends up with follow/draw on the most common pool shots?
 
Zphix said:
I'm going to ask some of the biggest questions I've ever asked:

1) How do you consciously go about learning to command speed control? This is one big issue I have. Should I set up simple shots where I don't have to worry about CB direction, or pocketing the ball, and focus solely on getting the CB into progressively tougher areas?

2) The reason I ask for books/DVDs is so I can get a lesson basically. Something that's sound enough to produce results if I follow the lesson plan - all I'm looking for is that lesson plan.

3) What's the best way to go about learning how follow/draw, and English affect the path of the CB after contact the OB? Obviously I know what they all do fundamentally, but I think that only knowing what they do does not help.

Like, I know that follow will shorten up the angle off the OB, but not how much it will take to get to XYZ position. Basically, I've been playing position only fundamentally knowing what draw and follow with English will do. Almost guess and checking on every shot.

Do I set up shots and notice where the CB ends up with follow/draw on the most common pool shots?
Click to expand...



Pick any shot that gives you a problem.

Take a full sheet of printer paper, and place it in the position you want to end up at with the CB.....and shoot the shot until you can hit the paper 10 times in a row.... then cut the paper to 1/4 size, and do it again..... Do this with every shot you have a problem with.

That should keep you busy for a couple years:rolleyes:
 
fastone371 said:
I have not tried this yet but I plan to within the next couple of days. When I am at home practicing I will snap a photo right after the break so I can set up the same layout over and over until I am successful at running out that rack,.
Click to expand...

Ha Ha Ha... you'll be forever retracing that rack....

If that was a possibility, the best, like VanBoening, Appleton & company would rule the planet.

Manufacturing tolerances keeps us from re-manufacturing break shots...
 
ElCorazonFrio said:
Find someone who you enjoy playing with, who is willing to talk things through. When you get to a position where you aren't really comfortable with your next position, tell your friend what you were thinking and ask what he thinks.

Discuss the positives and negatives of every possibility.

One of the easiest things to do for position play is imagine the pie-shaped slice of 'acceptable' position. You should always try to have the cueball path go along the slice instead of across it. This provides the most room for speed error.

Spend time really learning what spin does for and against your play. There are a lot of shots that you can hit softer with english than trying for 'natural' shape.

Follow more and draw less.
Click to expand...

The above is what did it for me. I started playing a very experienced player and we analyzed the possibilites for each shot; picking position for the next two shots, checking the tangent line and cushion rebound angles to decide on draw/follow/english/speed, and so on. It's all stuff I'd done before, but I was doing it haphazardly. He forced me to slow down and do it methodically. In pretty short order (3-4 sessions) it started to become second nature.

I guess it's a case of "if I do it too fast, it doesn't really sink in."
 
bdorman said:
The above is what did it for me. I started playing a very experienced player and we analyzed the possibilites for each shot; picking position for the next two shots, checking the tangent line and cushion rebound angles to decide on draw/follow/english/speed, and so on. It's all stuff I'd done before, but I was doing it haphazardly. He forced me to slow down and do it methodically. In pretty short order (3-4 sessions) it started to become second nature.

I guess it's a case of "if I do it too fast, it doesn't really sink in."
Click to expand...

At 19 I would sit and watch the two best players I knew battle at my university. I would ask some questions...apparently I wasn't too intrusive because they never asked me to go away.

That was a ton of help. I then started playing people who were just slightly better than I and we all progressed together.

My last several years of playing I feel like I have all the tools to play how I want to...and sometimes I prove it. I mostly need to work on my consistency.

The best thing is that if you like discussing things you are almost automatically a good instructor. I've given a lot of people a lot of help and have found that I learn a lot from doing it as I am forced to see things from a new perspective.
 
lessons

If you really want to speed-up the learning curve take some lessons. I had the opportunity to spend a little time with Scott Lee once and he is great!!! well spoken, very knowledgeable and most importantly very patient, you can contact him at: poolknowledge.com.

hope this helps, Sam.
 
ceebee said:
Ha Ha Ha... you'll be forever retracing that rack....

If that was a possibility, the best, like VanBoening, Appleton & company would rule the planet.

Manufacturing tolerances keeps us from re-manufacturing break shots...
Click to expand...

I should be able to get close on resetting the layout. The big reason I would like to try this is to work on patterns. Anyway, the way I shoot I will probably only need to reset 1 or 2 balls before I screw up my runout.:eek:
 
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