"SW Style" - where did this come from?

md5key

md5key

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
After posting the cue I designed it hit me how often you see people say something is "SW style", whether it's the pin, the hit, the butt sleeve, or the points.

So my question is, how accurate is that statement? Was SW the first to do long/short 6 point cues? The first to use their pin? The first to combine two woods in the butt sleeve? The first to use their style of rings?

Or is this more that SW is the company that made all of this popular, but didn't necessarily invent these designs? I find it interesting because you see "SW style" posted way more than you see something like "Szamboti Style" or "Bushka Style".
 
I am not sure of the answer to these questions but I can say that I dislike the Southwest style of butt sleeve. I would like the Southwest style if the butt sleeves were solid wood type and not the two tone wood type style that they use. I have always like the Szamboti style and Bushka style of cues.

Kevin
 
Sorry

Just noticed this was in Ask the Cuemaker section. Please disregard my first reply as I am not a cue maker. Sorry for the inconvienance.

Kevin
 
I don't think there's a set rule Kevin - your comments are more than welcome!
 
md5key said:
After posting the cue I designed it hit me how often you see people say something is "SW style", whether it's the pin, the hit, the butt sleeve, or the points.

So my question is, how accurate is that statement? Was SW the first to do long/short 6 point cues? The first to use their pin? The first to combine two woods in the butt sleeve? The first to use their style of rings?

Or is this more that SW is the company that made all of this popular, but didn't necessarily invent these designs? I find it interesting because you see "SW style" posted way more than you see something like "Szamboti Style" or "Bushka Style".
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SW Style: 3 high, 3 low, some billets rings, and that butt sleeve with the 1" ring at the bottom.

Personally, it screams SW when they put the 1" ring at the bottom.

I'm no SW expert. Did this style come from Kersenbrock? It seems like most of the Franklin era cues that I have seen have a solid sleeve without the 1" ring.

Either way, I really don't have clue about SW cues. I like the bushka/boti styled cues. That's mainly what we build.

This thread has me a little curious as well.
 
I think this style did come from Kersenbrock before SW anyway....was it explored before that? I don't know.

As for the southwest style....I would like it much more if there weren't so many cheap knock-offs of that style. Obviously they don't even compare to an actual SW or other quality cuemakers, but there is definitely an over-abundance of knock-offs.
 
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Kershenbrock was, as far as I've been told over the years, the first to use 3 long and 3 short points. He came up with the entire cue well before he set up Franklin and it's difficult to tell a Kershenbrock from a Franklin from this era. He said that the reason that he used his now famous pin was that he was experimenting with different thread forms and sizes and brass was so much easier to work than stainless for his experiments. He put them into a couple of cues he built and everyone started asking for them in his cues so he stuck with that form and material. I have found that the Kershenbrock pin is a slightly different size than the Franklins.

Dick
 
johnf_34 said:
I think this style did come from Kersenbrock before SW anyway....was it explored before that? I don't know.

As for the southwest style....I would like it much more if there weren't so many cheap knock-offs of that style. Obviously they don't even compare to an actual SW or other quality cuemakers, but there is definitely an over-abundance of knock-offs.
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What has always made a kershenbrock/Southwest such a longstanding and desirable design is it's simplicity. Nothing really fancy but clean lines. it stands out in a crowd without being gaudy. I don't like copying other cue makers designs unless they are simple and I or a customer could have easily came up with a close design on our own. I do make many 3 high 3 low pointed cues and any time I build one of my "not so sneaky pete' cues I put a one " piece of wood, usually figured Maple near the rear of the butt so as to get the points closer to the joint on the finished cue.

Dick
 
Well, pretty much ALL of SW cues use the same exact design. Obviously, there's variance in woods, # of rings, points or no points, veneers, etc. But it's the same template. So it is a definitive style, regardless of whether or not SW was the first to come up with it.
 
md5key said:
After posting the cue I designed it hit me how often you see people say something is "SW style", whether it's the pin, the hit, the butt sleeve, or the points.

So my question is, how accurate is that statement? Was SW the first to do long/short 6 point cues? The first to use their pin? The first to combine two woods in the butt sleeve? The first to use their style of rings?

Or is this more that SW is the company that made all of this popular, but didn't necessarily invent these designs? I find it interesting because you see "SW style" posted way more than you see something like "Szamboti Style" or "Bushka Style".
Click to expand...

This is my take on SW. In a time of copycats and people scared to death to be original, they started doing something different, based on a philosophy of how they wanted to build cues. They don't offer every joint on the planet or copy other cues, they build their cues their way and that is it. If you want a cue like a Joss, buy a Joss don't ask SW to build you one.

Most cue makers build such a conglomeration of cues they could not even tell you what their philosophy is, if they even have one beyond making copies of what they think will sell.

I wanted to add this. Jerry Franklin built me a cue years ago and we had a little debate on the design whether he would do it or not. I wanted it with black joint collars no veneers and I wanted just clear straight grain maple in the nose like my Balabushka. I don't like birds eye maple. He did agree to build me the cue and I loved it. At the time though I owned a bunch of cues and got an offer for the cue I could not refuse and sold the cue. I sold it to a guy I think from Texas named Campbell. I think he was a collector and may even read this forum. I always wonder where that cue is. It is a very simple one of a kind SW.
 
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Sometimes it boils down to how designs are "labled".

Think about it for a while. When someone asks you to photocopy something, do they sometimes as you to xerox it even thou it's not a xerox machine? A storage container, do you hear tupperware instead even thou it's not tupperware? Rollerblading rather than Inline skating. A few more to ponder. Scotch Tape (i don't know if guys on your end of the world uses it), glade wrap, and i can't think of anymore. But you get the point.
 
macguy said:
This is my take on SW. In a time of copycats and people scared to death to be original, they started doing something different, based on a philosophy of how they wanted to build cues. They don't offer every joint on the planet or copy other cues, they build their cues their way and that is it. If you want a cue like a Joss, buy a Joss don't ask SW to build you one.

Most cue makers build such a conglomeration of cues they could not even tell you what their philosophy is, if they even have one beyond making copies of what they think will sell.

I wanted to add this. Jerry Franklin built me a cue years ago and we had a little debate on the design whether he would do it or not. I wanted it with black joint collars no veneers and I wanted just clear straight grain maple in the nose like my Balabushka. I don't like birds eye maple. He did agree to build me the cue and I loved it. At the time though I owned a bunch of cues and got an offer for the cue I could not refuse and sold the cue. I sold it to a guy I think from Texas named Campbell. I think he was a collector and may even read this forum. I always wonder where that cue is. It is a very simple one of a kind SW.
Click to expand...

His first name wouldn't be dean, would it? If so, contact deanoc here on az.
 
POCKETWOLF said:
His first name wouldn't be dean, would it? If so, contact deanoc here on az.
Click to expand...

I don't know, it was just a cash deal at the BCA show. I also sold him an original Kirshinbrock (sp?) at the same time so I am sure he would remember it. I have a feeling he made out very good on the deal. Those cues sky rocked in value.
 
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