Taking the Air out of the Predator Air
- Thread starter John Barton
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John Barton
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CreeDo said:John, I see your point about "just hitting the ball is not enough"... and I know that "I'm just content to get a hit" sounds like reducing the stick to a gimmick... but truly, I wonder if this isn't overkill.
You make it sound pretty important to have more precise, controllable english on your jump shots, but guys like earl and efren damn near make it look like a jump stick isn't necessary at all. If it is, maybe just trying to get maximum air and sinking the ball without english is the right play... and again that's pretty much all I see when I see corey [or insert other TV jumper] jump.
I prolly should shut up until I try it myselfBut I have the feeling I'll fall in love with whatever makes catching air easiest.
It's not anymore overkill than wondering why we use sidespin at all. Efren uses a jump cue and so does Earl.
The modern jump cue has evolved to the point where it does exactly what it's supposed to - facilitate the jump shot with control. Whether players take advantage of that control that modern jump cues offer is their choice.
I can tell you so many stories about people who have learned to use the cue with control and then won important matches because of it. But here are two of my favorites.
One is when Chris M. and I were in Markely's billiards and Chris was left with a jump shot but no natural path to the next shot.
Something like this:
and we were betting $100 or $200 a set I can't remember. Anyway the set was very close and this was a swing game.
Chris shot the four in with inside english and the cueball reversed off the end rail to come in perfect for the alley on the five. You couldn't have asked for a better pressure shot with the jump cue and the need to play the right spin.
Then later that trip on the way home we stopped at Miller Time Billiards - home of the famous Bowman brothers and assorted other killas.
We played in a little Tuesday tournament they had and just for fun I told Chris that I was gonna jump at everything because we had been having so much fun with the jump cue that trip.
Well I came up against a shot where my opponent said "you are gonna jump that????" I said I would jump it, not foul and play safe. He said he would buy a Bunjee on the spot if I did it.
The situation was something like this:
So with nothing to lose I shot it - on a bar table I might add - and nailed it and got one more sale on the way home.
So I don't think it's overkill to master the tools you have. If you bought a book on the diamond system for kick shots would you stop at chapter one and one rail kicks? If not then why stop at just hitting a ball when you can do it with a greater degree of control and accuracy?
Looked at the shots you listed, John. Why is the OB always near a pocket, and why is there always 1' to 2' between the CB and the OB? These are great shots for the short jump cue. Try putting some space between the CB and OB. If you give me one to two feet between the balls at all times, I could definitely use the Bunjee as well as the Air. Here are the shots that make the Air really stand out. OB is a foot to two feet away from the pocket. CB is blocked by a ball 3' away. I have enough length on the cue to stroke accurately with the Air, but the reduced weight gets the ball up and down quickly. Whitey stays on the table. Also, I don't see any shots with less than 4" of distance between the CB and OB. Again, here's where the Air shines.
I have not bothered to read through this entire thread but thought I would give my thoughts on the Predator Air.
The hype, it's true. Just got one this weekend at the Qlympics and the cue is the shizzle. I am having zero issues with controlling the CB. I previously did use a bungee and find that using the Air is much easier to me. Obviously you will get tons of different opinions, but mine is all that matters to me.
I have much more confidence in the Air than I did with the Bunjee. I thought the price of $130 was not too bad. It helped me win a match too with very very little practice. JMHO.. YMMV.
Peace, JBK
The hype, it's true. Just got one this weekend at the Qlympics and the cue is the shizzle. I am having zero issues with controlling the CB. I previously did use a bungee and find that using the Air is much easier to me. Obviously you will get tons of different opinions, but mine is all that matters to me.
I have much more confidence in the Air than I did with the Bunjee. I thought the price of $130 was not too bad. It helped me win a match too with very very little practice. JMHO.. YMMV.
Peace, JBK
John Barton said:I have many more but these are the ones I used most often to show myself whether a jump cue was easier or harder to use.
My basic criteria was to do these shots and see how the cue performs for me. Using the Bunjee as my baseline I could determine whether a cue was easier to jump with, harder to control, etc....
I realize that this is not scientific. I can only go on my experience as well as the experience of my employees and colleagues during the last ten years of selling jump cues.
Shane mentioned earlier that Predator had built a "robot" to test the jump cue. I am sure that they did. However I would like to say that there is no way on earth that we will get to see the robot in action to determine what criteria Predator used to come up with the idea that the P-Air is the "most accurate" jump cue. Does that mean that if we had a hole to jump into that the Predator Air on the robot would jump the ball into the hole more accurately than other jump cues? I don't know.
All I can tell you is to put it through the paces and try it with other jump cues. See if there aren't some shots that depend on speed and spin where you are able to do them with less effort than with the P-Air. I hope to see a lot of you that have multiple jump cues trying these shots and reporting your results.
If I am wrong - and it wouldn't be the first time
But I think that once some of you get past just how high you can jump and start thinking in terms of control you will find that the Predator Air, while good, is just another good choice in a field of good choices. Not "the best" as they claim.
Thanks for posting the shots, John.
So what is the link to your jump cue that you feel is the most accurate jump cue in the world? I would like to read more about it.
I will try one at the earliest opportunity.
JoeyA
John Barton
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Shawn Armstrong said:
The object balls are always near the pockets because the idea is to show control of the cueball. There aren't any short jumps because I don't consider them high percentage game situation shots.
If you want to put the cueball 1-2 inches away on all these shots then I will be happy to give you five to one odds on the money per shot. You can shoot them with any cue you desire.
I was asked for the shots I use to test on. I also do plenty of open table shots with any jump cue.
Look it's real simple. Neither you nor I are going to solve anything here. Bring it to Valley Forge and we will make the time to test out any and all jump cues you have against anything I have. IF the Predator clearly performs better then I will say it loud and proud. I won't make you bet anything because it's a losing proposition for you. But we CAN videotape the session for proof.
John Barton
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JoeyA said:
There isn't one that is the "most accurate". That's like saying that one tip is more accurate than another.
In my opinion today's jump cues fall into two categories - normal weight and ultralight.
Normal weight is 8-10oz. and Ultralights are 4-6oz.
Both of them will allow a player to jump a ball accurately with as little as a credit card's width. Some will be easier or harder to use depending on technique and what the goal is.
Accuracy comes from the player wielding the cue. The only difference is how hard the player must work to achieve it. Accuracy is not the action of jumping it is the result.
If someone feels that they are able to achieve all the control they want from the P-Air then it's the "most accurate" for them. Conversely a person who can also do all the same things with another brand with less effort probably feels that that brand is the "most accurate".
Like I said earlier in this thread, the P-Air is a good jump cue among many good jump cues. None of them are much better or worse than any other in my opinion. Some will require more or less work depending on the shot. None are "the best" for all shots. But that is what human adaptability is for.
John Barton said:
Normal is 8-10? I have a jump/break that is 19... obviously not ideal for the jump, but with the phenolic tip it definitely makes it a better jumper than my player. Or maybe you're referring to after I break I take off the butt? Never bothered to weigh that... but then again I can never manage to jump with it broken down cause I'm not very good at jumps period and I'm awful at jumps with the dart stroke.
I can never get down to Valley Forge. My wife's a teacher, so I don't have the luxury of heading down for a week unless I want to drag my family with me, and I think my wife would rather shave her legs with a cheese grater than head to a Billiards Expo for anything longer than 5 minutes.John Barton said:
I've set your shots up and tried them. I was equally successful with the Air, the Bunjee, the Leaping Lizard, and the jump portion of a Sledgehammer. I think your shots are set up to prove that specific purpose. There were some shots I couldn't make with any of the cues. That's what skews the data. You need to set up game situations, not these "creations" like the jump 8-ball in the side pocket. Half of these are trick shots. There is one gaping hole in the performance of the heavy jump cues. Imagine being pinned behind the 9 with an 8 as a hanger in the pocket, and you are about 2-3" away from the blocking ball. You are blocked FULL by the 9. The score is hill-hill, the winner moves on in the tourney, the loser goes home. I know which cue I want to use for that shot. AIR. If there is no significant difference in the "overall" performance of the Bunjee vs. the Air, but the Air allows me the Houdini escape shots like I've described, I'm shelling out an extra $50 and getting the Air jump cue. It's peanuts versus what it allows me to do.
My two cents, I'm not a great jumper, nor do I get the opportunity to practice jumps a lot. But in my limited experience have found that there are compromises to everything. John, I have a Fury J/B, and I do like it. For the price, it does everything I need it to do well. I was never able to jump a ball before I got it(this was the actual Fury used in the Platinum speed test(great price as a demo, thanks Shane). A friend dared me to jump. The first time I tried jumping with it, I made 9/10 short rail jumps with the offending ball less than 3" from the c/b. However I do have a Varney J/B on order with 2 shafts, one phenolic and one leather tip, my only complaint about the Fury is, the tip has to be scuffed often to retain chalk and control. I've tried a Bungee, they play well. Some guy had a custom jump cue that weighed practically nothing, I was able to jump, what seemed to be the biggest coin-op c/b I've ever seen, consistently and effortlessly. I have a Pred. Air on order, for that reason. If I need more weight for control, I can always break down my J/B, if after extensive practice, find that the Pred is not the best in control.
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BTW, John, thank you for a great thread. This is the stuff I love on this board. This was a nice, clean debate, or more like a great exchange of ideas. Rep to you for this. Don't fall off your chair - yes, I did give you rep.
Shawn, do you ever come up around Thunder Bay????
Shawn, do you ever get up to Thunder Bay???
Not that often. Used to come up once a year on business with TBay Telecom. Not sure what my travel schedule holds for the upcoming year.incidentslip said:
John Barton
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incidentslip said:
You are the kind of customer we ALL LOVE!
Well said.I have to tell you a secret. Don't scuff the tip on the Fury. I used to scuff/pik all my jumpers and I found that if I don't scuff them and just apply chalk that they hold chalk just fine and I can spin the ball just the same. I didn't believe it at first but it's true.
The Sledgehammer..........oops, I mean Fury J/B.ratcues said:
(tongue in cheek, John. No war of words, please.)
John Barton
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Shawn Armstrong said:
I disagree about them being trick shots. About the only shot that fits the trick shot category might be the one where all three balls are frozen to the rail. And this one is specifically this way to force the masse.
The gaping hole you mention isn't one at all. Like I have said all jump cues allow for balls to be jumped at very close distances. It's technique.
To use your example though: Which is better to have a cue that is marginally easier at super close (low percentage) distances or to have one that offers better control on the majority of shots that come up? In my mind it's not a question of money. It's a question of performance.
I'd rather have the control for the majority of game situations, such as the shots I posted, than slightly, and I emphasize slightly, better "jumpability" on close up shots.
I don't want to work harder on the majority of shots I take. Which is what the ultralights force me to do.
If you are in the situation you describe above then it all comes down to your stroke under pressure no matter which cue you use. The Predator Air is not going to afford you any magic in that situation. I can pretty much guarantee you that in head to head competition that pretty much every other jump cue on the market will allow a player to jump at any distance as consistently as with the Air with a little practice to get used to it.
But the converse is not as true in my opinion, that it's as easy to control the cueball with a little extra practice with the P-Air. I think that the adjustment is too much to be consistent.
John Barton
New member
ratcues said:
They are about the same in my opinion. In fact it is my opinion that most jump cues on the market have roughly the same performance. We are at a point where the performance curve is pretty well flattened out and it comes down to personal preference.
The engineering on all of the jump cues is roughly the same. The jumpability is roughly the same. The largest difference being that some people do better with some sticks over others.
I can do the same things with the Fury JB as I can with the Bunjee. And the same with a Sledgehammer or a Varney or Stinger and presumably with an X-jumper.