Talisman Pro Medium Tips

tip

troy i think you are mistaken in saying the tips wear funny and play poorly.....first the tip issue-these tips are made in such a manner as to have equal compression in the layers...this causes the tips to wear and play more evenly as there are no soft spot and no hard spots and as far as playability-i think that resides more in the persons game.....these tips give consistent friction on the ball and dont compress unevenly when struck against the ball......as many cue repaired know tips that arent layered and are cut tend to have many flaws.....they are cut in such a manner that the sides are the hardest part of the tip....and when trimmed or shaped by any of the various ways they can and have come apart.....and another thing that can be found with standard tips(lepro,triangle,elkmaster) you dont have a consistent hardness in the batch......with laminated tips they have been able to better control the hardness of the tips so that a soft tip is truly soft and a hard tip is truly hard and neither one is mushy or to hard to be used.......would like to have access to a method to show the consistentcy of compression with any given tip,be it a regular or laminated.......juston
 
I don't know why you addressing your post to me Juston. The comment about "wear funny and play poorly" was initially made by "Burned out" Bernie posting as "The Silencer". Re-read the posts -- I was simply quoting him.

I've been an advocate of Talisman for years and keep them stocked in inventory for my cue repair business.

I use a durometer to measure initial hardness of tips. However, this will not provide info on how a specific tip will compress during use.

Troy
cuewhiz189 said:
troy i think you are mistaken in saying the tips wear funny and play poorly.....first the tip issue-these tips are made in such a manner as to have equal compression in the layers...this causes the tips to wear and play more evenly as there are no soft spot and no hard spots and as far as playability-i think that resides more in the persons game.....these tips give consistent friction on the ball and dont compress unevenly when struck against the ball......as many cue repaired know tips that arent layered and are cut tend to have many flaws.....they are cut in such a manner that the sides are the hardest part of the tip....and when trimmed or shaped by any of the various ways they can and have come apart.....and another thing that can be found with standard tips(lepro,triangle,elkmaster) you dont have a consistent hardness in the batch......with laminated tips they have been able to better control the hardness of the tips so that a soft tip is truly soft and a hard tip is truly hard and neither one is mushy or to hard to be used.......would like to have access to a method to show the consistentcy of compression with any given tip,be it a regular or laminated.......juston
Click to expand...
 
Donald A. Purdy said:
Haven't you guys figured out yet that Bernie doesn't even deserve a responce to his ignorant posts. The poor guy must not have a life and he sure as hell doesn't know anything about pool. Ignore him long enough and he may just go away.
I have been putting and playing with Talisman tips for years. No problem.
Don P. :rolleyes:
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What type of glue is best to use on layered, but specifically talisman tips? I've been having some trouble with layered tips lately...
Thanks in advance.
 
I use Loctite® QuickTite Gel for all my tip repair work, Talisman or otherwise.
It's the same as Loctite® 454 Gel but more readily available.

What trouble have you been having ??? Maybe I can help. I've been doing repair work for over 5 years so I should be able to answer your questions.

Troy
Top Spin said:
What type of glue is best to use on layered, but specifically talisman tips? I've been having some trouble with layered tips lately...
Thanks in advance.
Click to expand...
 
Troy said:
I don't know why you addressing your post to me Juston. The comment about "wear funny and play poorly" was initially made by "Burned out" Bernie posting as "The Silencer". Re-read the posts -- I was simply quoting him.

I've been an advocate of Talisman for years and keep them stocked in inventory for my cue repair business.

I use a durometer to measure initial hardness of tips. However, this will not provide info on how a specific tip will compress during use.

Troy
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pLEASE provide us the durometer readings for the 4 tailsman tips in the pik skin pls, what their hardness ratings are, and morri and lepro and triangle and elk master, they we can guage for our self.
 
TopSpin

I also use Locktite Super Glue Gel. The blue and grey bottle. Easy to apply the proper amount. Make sure you get all the chalk off the ferrule before using. Hell to clean up if you don't.
Don :cool:
 
Troy said:
I use Loctite® QuickTite Gel for all my tip repair work, Talisman or otherwise.
It's the same as Loctite® 454 Gel but more readily available.

What trouble have you been having ??? Maybe I can help. I've been doing repair work for over 5 years so I should be able to answer your questions.

Troy
Click to expand...
Thanks troy, I appreciate it. Here's the skinny:
I use the Porper repair lathe. I don't do repair work for $$ or a living, just for myself and buddies.
I'm having trouble with tips flying off. They last for a while, then kaboom. Off it flies. It really ticks me off after spending 45 minutes on a cue...
I apply loctite to the ferrule, then press the tip to the ferrule with the attachment on the lathe. I usually wait about 10 min before I start finishing the tip. I try like hell not to touch the sanded side of the tip or the ferrule with my fingers.
Should i be putting the glue on the tip? Maybe I should put glue on both? Am I using too much glue? (There's usually squeeze out that I wipe off after the tip sets.)
Thanks again!
 
Good for you, you use a lathe. I have and use both a lathe and a Willard's. The Willard's with all the different size cutters & collets was my first equipment investment and I still use it so that I can do more than one thing at a time.

First, make sure both the shaft end and the back of the tip are prep'd. I use 60 grit to prep both. I also cut a cross-hatch on both with a razor knife to help with adhesion.

Second, you don't say if you're using gel or the really thin variety of super glue. I strongly recommend the gel as it's a much better gap filler.

It shouldn't matter if you put the adhesive on the shaft or the tip.
I use enough gel that a bit squeezes out all around the tip as you say you do. Under slight pressure, after about 30 seconds I wipe off the excess. I then let it set for about 5 minutes keeping slight pressure.

Trim the tip to the ferrule as you probably already do. I finish with 600 grit.

Next I burnish the side of the tip. CAUTION !!! Too much heat when burnishing can soften the layer adhesive.

After burnishing I again let it set for about 15-30 minutes before finally shaping the tip to the desired radius. This gives the layer adhesive time to re-set if it has become soft.

I have NEVER had a tip come off from adhesive failure.

Let me know if any of this helps. If you want you can e-mail me at troy5510@mindspring.com.

Troy
Top Spin said:
Thanks troy, I appreciate it. Here's the skinny:
I use the Porper repair lathe. I don't do repair work for $$ or a living, just for myself and buddies.
I'm having trouble with tips flying off. They last for a while, then kaboom. Off it flies. It really ticks me off after spending 45 minutes on a cue...
I apply loctite to the ferrule, then press the tip to the ferrule with the attachment on the lathe. I usually wait about 10 min before I start finishing the tip. I try like hell not to touch the sanded side of the tip or the ferrule with my fingers.
Should i be putting the glue on the tip? Maybe I should put glue on both? Am I using too much glue? (There's usually squeeze out that I wipe off after the tip sets.)
Thanks again!
Click to expand...
 
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I'm experienced in installing single layer tips and just recently installed my first Talisman. Materials used were DURO SUPERGLUE GEL, and exacto knife for trimming and the nickel depression in the ULTIMATE TIP TOOL. They all worked fine. A leather square was used to burnish the sides and the tip looks just fine and plays awesome. The tip elevated my shooting at least two notches. I'm running way more balls than ever before.
 
Hey Troy:

Is the Williard's unit that you're using the one costing around $400 and made of a huge piece of aluminum? If so, then I was thinking of getting one for my own tips and replacing others as well. It works well?
 
Yes, that's the unit and it works as well as it's designed to work. A bit pricey now at $400 with 1 size adjustable cutter, 1 size collet set and 1 size tip holder (13 & 14mm).

kokopuffs said:
Hey Troy:

Is the Williard's unit that you're using the one costing around $400 and made of a huge piece of aluminum? If so, then I was thinking of getting one for my own tips and replacing others as well. It works well?
Click to expand...
 
Readings using my Durometer are relative 'cuz it hasn't been calibrated to an industry standard. The numbers would therefore be relatively meaningless compared to another Durometer.

Suffice it to say that from Soft to Hard the Elk Master is the Softest. Then Talisman Pro Soft, Talisman Pro Medium, Le Pro (generally), Talisman Pro Hard, Triangle, Talisman X-Hard. I don't know exactly where the many different Moori tips would fall. Also, Le Pro tips are known for their LACK of consistency from one tip to another.

Troy
jacko said:
pLEASE provide us the durometer readings for the 4 tailsman tips in the pik skin pls, what their hardness ratings are, and morri and lepro and triangle and elk master, they we can guage for our self.
Click to expand...
 
Troy said:
Good for you, you use a lathe. I have and use both a lathe and a Willard's. The Willard's with all the different size cutters & collets was my first equipment investment and I still use it so that I can do more than one thing at a time.

First, make sure both the shaft end and the back of the tip are prep'd. I use 60 grit to prep both. I also cut a cross-hatch on both with a razor knife to help with adhesion.

Second, you don't say if you're using gel or the really thin variety of super glue. I strongly recommend the gel as it's a much better gap filler.

It shouldn't matter if you put the adhesive on the shaft or the tip.
I use enough gel that a bit squeezes out all around the tip as you say you do. Under slight pressure, after about 30 seconds I wipe off the excess. I then let it set for about 5 minutes keeping slight pressure.

Trim the tip to the ferrule as you probably already do. I finish with 600 grit.

Next I burnish the side of the tip. CAUTION !!! Too much heat when burnishing can soften the layer adhesive.

After burnishing I again let it set for about 15-30 minutes before finally shaping the tip to the desired radius. This gives the layer adhesive time to re-set if it has become soft.

I have NEVER had a tip come off from adhesive failure.

Let me know if any of this helps. If you want you can e-mail me at troy5510@mindspring.com.

Troy
Click to expand...

Troy I think you got it! You say "CAUTION - too much heat can soften the adhesive layer".
What I didn't tell you is after the tip is done, I polish the ferrule and shaft on a buffing wheel (with jeweler's rouge) that spins at 1750 rpm. It can get quite hot, but when you're done you could comb your hair in the glassy reflection off the ferrule.
This is, no doubt, where my trouble is. Thanks again Troy, I may have been screwin' around with this issue for years otherwise.
Having discovered the problem, I must say I like shining the whole thing up when its done. Is there another type of glue that heat doesn't affect? How about epoxy? Because I'm only doing this on a small scale, I don't really care about time. It would be nice if I could work on the cue within an hour or so of setting up the tip, but it certainly doesn't need to be as instant as loctite.
Regards. ;)
 
Regarding using jeweler's rouge to create that shiny finish to the side of the tip I quote Talisman Billiards, "We also advise against applying any liquid to the side of the tip to get a shine. Please do not apply too much spit (a tiny bit is OK), water, WD40 or any other liquid to the sides of the tips, including coloring the sides with a felt marker. These liquids can react with our glue formula and cause the tip to separate."
See http://www.talismanbilliards.com/FAQ.asp for more details.

I think you might have slightly misunderstood me. When I mentioned softening the adhesive of the layers I was referring to Talisman's adhesive used at the factory to adhere the layers. Loctite® Gel works as well as any and better than most for adhering the tip to the shaft end. Switching to epoxy will NOT change the softening effect on the layer adhesive. Therefore, I would NOT change just to obtain that mirror finish. In order to save the layer adhesive, I would STOP trying to get that high shine.

Troy
Top Spin said:
Troy I think you got it! You say "CAUTION - too much heat can soften the adhesive layer".
What I didn't tell you is after the tip is done, I polish the ferrule and shaft on a buffing wheel (with jeweler's rouge) that spins at 1750 rpm. It can get quite hot, but when you're done you could comb your hair in the glassy reflection off the ferrule.
This is, no doubt, where my trouble is. Thanks again Troy, I may have been screwin' around with this issue for years otherwise.
Having discovered the problem, I must say I like shining the whole thing up when its done. Is there another type of glue that heat doesn't affect? How about epoxy? Because I'm only doing this on a small scale, I don't really care about time. It would be nice if I could work on the cue within an hour or so of setting up the tip, but it certainly doesn't need to be as instant as loctite.
Regards. ;)
Click to expand...
 
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The Willard doesn't know or care how long the shaft or cue is. There is NO steady rest for the other end. There also is NO accommodation with the Willard for burnishing or final tip shaping.

Beware though, 1-piece cues come in a variety of tip diameters and the basic Willard can only handle a shaft end between about 12 to 13mm in the collet, 13 & 14mm tips, and trim tips from 14mm down to about 12.5mm. Optional accessories are available for a price. I have 3 collet sizes, 3 tip holder combination sizes allowing tips in 10mm, 11mm, 12mm, 13mm & 14mm, and 3 trimmer sizes to trim tips from 14mm to 9mm. I've used them all repairing customer cues and house cues in 4-5 different pool rooms.

Troy
kokopuffs said:
Troy:

Does the Willard Tipper also do well with retipping one-piece cues?
Click to expand...
 
So if I retipped a one-piece cue, it may help to use a support for the butt end to avoid bending/stressing all along the length of it.
 
Troy said:
Therefore, I would NOT change just to obtain that mirror finish. In order to save the layer adhesive, I would STOP trying to get that high shine.

Troy
Click to expand...

If you want that mirror finish on the ferrule, why not do it before putting the tip on, then after the tip is on, just buff it up a little without creating the heat?

Just a thought. (I'm not in the business, so take that for what it's worth, but I think I would ask you to do that if it was my stick you were working on.)
 
A buffing wheel charged with jeweler's rouge or other stick-type polishes creates intense heat almost instantly. This can affect the integrity of the ferrule installation or actually melt the ferrule. A risky procedure for a cosmetic benefit, IMHO.

Walt in VA
 
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