Tap and dye and other tooling
- Thread starter icbm
- Start date
Joint cap is usually 5/8-11 or 5/8-18. If you have the ability to live thread, it's up to you. If not you'll need a 5/8-11 or 18 tap and a matching tennon threader. I'm not sure what your asking about when you say "bore all the way thru a front" but if your asking how you bore through say a forearm or a handle, the answer is that you use a gun drill.
icbm
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Thank you sir. That will explain why I keep seeing gun drills online
icbm
Registered
Ok, without using a router and thread chasing tool designed for use under power, what tool do I use? I have ordered a dye for ferrules but I'm trying to wrap my brain around how to chase threads that joint collars will screw onto.
I apologize for my lack of knowledge. I study and practice but I have only used glue with glue relief slots instead of threads
I apologize for my lack of knowledge. I study and practice but I have only used glue with glue relief slots instead of threads
You use a tap for I.D threads and a tennon threader on O.D threads.
If you need help finding the right products PM me.
Gun drills are needed to make holes in long pieces of material. Again, PM me if you need help finding the right products.
Tap _&_ die?
You are going down (up?) a difficult path for woodworking app.
Usually, doing all ops in a lathe, a person can use one or the other with the other part single pointed (or routed) threads and get good results.
Using both,
In the best of times, materials, and circumstances, it is a low confidence bet that the parts will ever meet on center, parallel, and with a good tolerance fit. At least one, usually the OD, needs to be cut with a leadscrew and single point tool or live tooling
Will you make a concentric axially floating die holder for your tailstock?
Or how do you plan to control it square & on center?
Split dies, with experimenting and proper use can get good tolerance fit.
Geometric die heads in a lathe can do pretty well with most of the geometry.
But will cost more, tooled up, than the router option for your delux.
Save up for an engine lathe if you are going to keep doing this.
Cut lots of scrap dowels before committing to any parts you like.
I truly wish you the best of luck. It sounds like you have the interest.
good luck!
smt
You are going down (up?) a difficult path for woodworking app.
Usually, doing all ops in a lathe, a person can use one or the other with the other part single pointed (or routed) threads and get good results.
Using both,
In the best of times, materials, and circumstances, it is a low confidence bet that the parts will ever meet on center, parallel, and with a good tolerance fit. At least one, usually the OD, needs to be cut with a leadscrew and single point tool or live tooling
Will you make a concentric axially floating die holder for your tailstock?
Or how do you plan to control it square & on center?
Split dies, with experimenting and proper use can get good tolerance fit.
Geometric die heads in a lathe can do pretty well with most of the geometry.
But will cost more, tooled up, than the router option for your delux.
Save up for an engine lathe if you are going to keep doing this.
Cut lots of scrap dowels before committing to any parts you like.
I truly wish you the best of luck. It sounds like you have the interest.
good luck!
smt
icbm
Registered
Thank you so much sir
icbm
Registered
It would be extremely helpful if I had help finding what I need. So plz point me in the right direction. I greatly appreciate your advice
Credentials: I'm a decent hobby cuemaker, & professional woodworker & machinist. IOW, won't pretend to tell you what sizes, etc or anything else is "better" for cues, but can suggest what's available. See my previous, post: ideally threading would be done on an engine lathe or other leadscrew threading equipped machine. You will end up spending a lot on high end products (taps, dies) that are difficult to attain tolerances needed for cue making, though the tools can be contrived to work, more or less, if used appropriately in a lathe.
Caveat out of the way:
Here's a page of split dies. They can be set open (or broken
) with the adjuster screw. Then incrementally decrease the spread until the sample/test parts fit snugly. There may be cheaper sources on Amazon. McMaster-Carr is another source.
www.kbctools.ca
www.kbctools.ca
www.mcmaster.com
Obviously, search the pages for other sizes.
Something like this should be shop made to fit the taper in your tailstock. It needs to be dead concentric with the die mounted.
This one won't work, unless it can be modified in a cylindrical or Tool & Cutter grinder to make it a taper shank that fits the lathe TS. There's too much overhang to use in a chuck in the TS, though with flats on the shank and loose jaws in the chuck, it could be made to function as a floating die holder. Even at that, note that the provided shank is 3/4" dia, so metal machining facility is needed to adapt it. But you might be able to come up with something similar made in your own shop..
www.kbctools.ca
If a non-floating holder like above is used, the TS has to be loose on the ways. You turn the headstock of the lathe by hand, and with the other hand, control the TS from twisting but help it slide along. A floating die holder is better, if you can make one - the sliding is incorporated into a 2-part keyed shank.
Note that with this style die holder, the depth that can be attained on the part is limited by the depth of the die in the holder, and any extra depth or back relief provided in the holder.
Here's taps. I believe spiral flute works better in wood (or steel).
In steel, they pull the chip out, as for threading blind holes.
However, if you have a way to drive them under power, gun taps have advantages in metal and are cheaper in through holes.
https://www.kbctools.ca/CatSearch/95/spiral-pointed-taps/1?v=j&facet=[["Fractional Size","Fractional Size","5/8\"-11"]]
Most cue joint thread taps are not common machine tap style or sizes and need to be bought from cuemaker/billiard supply houses such as Atlas.
Keep in mind that if the cue you are working on was made by someone with an engine lathe, the taps & dies you buy to match might or might not provide exactly the same thread. With an engine lathe any thread pitch can be applied to any diameter. If a guy wanted. for what ever reason including his own perception of "hit" and/or say, balance, (thinner steel wall) the joint ferule could be made .657-10 if he preferred and was making both parts.
Also, above listings are just examples. If you find them cheaper on Amazon, it will probably be OK for wood cutting. The higher cost tools are for people running production lots in difficult materials all day long & have material specs and surface treatments that are irrelevant to wood, or to cutting a few pieces of steel.
smt
Caveat out of the way:
Here's a page of split dies. They can be set open (or broken
) with the adjuster screw. Then incrementally decrease the spread until the sample/test parts fit snugly. There may be cheaper sources on Amazon. McMaster-Carr is another source.Round Adjustable Dies - Results Page 1 :: KBC Tools & Machinery
Round Adjustable Dies
Taps and Dies - KBC Tools & Machinery
Looking for taps? KBC Tools & Machinery has a comprehensive selection, including spiral pointed taps, STI taps, and tap and die sets. Shop our range of taps now!
McMaster-Carr
McMaster-Carr is the complete source for your plant with over 595,000 products. 98% of products ordered ship from stock and deliver same or next day.
Obviously, search the pages for other sizes.
Something like this should be shop made to fit the taper in your tailstock. It needs to be dead concentric with the die mounted.
This one won't work, unless it can be modified in a cylindrical or Tool & Cutter grinder to make it a taper shank that fits the lathe TS. There's too much overhang to use in a chuck in the TS, though with flats on the shank and loose jaws in the chuck, it could be made to function as a floating die holder. Even at that, note that the provided shank is 3/4" dia, so metal machining facility is needed to adapt it. But you might be able to come up with something similar made in your own shop..
KBC,1.1/2 IN.ODX3/4 IN. SHANK DIE HOLDER,1-528-005,KBC Tools & Machinery
KBC,1.1/2 IN.ODX3/4 IN. SHANK DIE HOLDER,1-528-005,KBC Tools & Machinery
If a non-floating holder like above is used, the TS has to be loose on the ways. You turn the headstock of the lathe by hand, and with the other hand, control the TS from twisting but help it slide along. A floating die holder is better, if you can make one - the sliding is incorporated into a 2-part keyed shank.
Note that with this style die holder, the depth that can be attained on the part is limited by the depth of the die in the holder, and any extra depth or back relief provided in the holder.
Here's taps. I believe spiral flute works better in wood (or steel).
In steel, they pull the chip out, as for threading blind holes.
However, if you have a way to drive them under power, gun taps have advantages in metal and are cheaper in through holes.
https://www.kbctools.ca/CatSearch/95/spiral-pointed-taps/1?v=j&facet=[["Fractional Size","Fractional Size","5/8\"-11"]]
Most cue joint thread taps are not common machine tap style or sizes and need to be bought from cuemaker/billiard supply houses such as Atlas.
Keep in mind that if the cue you are working on was made by someone with an engine lathe, the taps & dies you buy to match might or might not provide exactly the same thread. With an engine lathe any thread pitch can be applied to any diameter. If a guy wanted. for what ever reason including his own perception of "hit" and/or say, balance, (thinner steel wall) the joint ferule could be made .657-10 if he preferred and was making both parts.
Also, above listings are just examples. If you find them cheaper on Amazon, it will probably be OK for wood cutting. The higher cost tools are for people running production lots in difficult materials all day long & have material specs and surface treatments that are irrelevant to wood, or to cutting a few pieces of steel.
smt
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