Taper Problem

JoeyA

JoeyA

Efren's Mini-Tourn BACKER
Silver Member
I gave my new Bende shaft to a cue repair guy who promised to provide me with a particular taper that I had spec'd out. He said no problem he could do that but it would take time. I said time is no problem. Take as much time as you need.

When the shaft was finally finished he called me to pick up the shaft. I paid him and started playing with the shaft. As soon as I put my glove on and stroked the shaft a couple of times, I noticed the shaft had several and maybe as many as a dozen or so bumps on the shaft.

I previously used a drill to taper a Bender shaft with excellent results but it took me about a dozen steps to get it the way I wanted it.

He said he had tapered the shaft on a lathe. I mentioned the bumps on the shaft and he could not feel them. His assistant acknowledged that there were numerous bumps on the shaft. It actually feels like the shaft is bumpy, almost like someone took a file and tried to make a smooth round shaft by sanding the shaft with the file. I normally do not feel dings in my shafts and am only particular about the taper on my shafts.

Does anyone know what could have happened to my new shaft? It is SO bumpy that I cannot play with it. He offered to not charge me but he did not know how the shaft got so bumpy. After his assistant showed him the bumps he acknowledged that there were many bumps on the shaft but did not know how they got there. This shaft wasn't dropped and the bumpiness was not caused by dings, of that I'm sure.

Thanks for any insight. I will probably try to fix the problem using my electric drill unless I get better suggestions from you guys.

Thanks,
JoeyA
 
Chatter possibly? Not that this provides a solution but it may be the cause.
 
thepavlos said:
Chatter possibly? Not that this provides a solution but it may be the cause.
Click to expand...

What is chatter? Lathe wobble?
thanks,
JoeyA
 
JoeyA said:
I gave my new Bende shaft to a cue repair guy who promised to provide me with a particular taper that I had spec'd out. He said no problem he could do that but it would take time. I said time is no problem. Take as much time as you need.

When the shaft was finally finished he called me to pick up the shaft. I paid him and started playing with the shaft. As soon as I put my glove on and stroked the shaft a couple of times, I noticed the shaft had several and maybe as many as a dozen or so bumps on the shaft.

I previously used a drill to taper a Bender shaft with excellent results but it took me about a dozen steps to get it the way I wanted it.

He said he had tapered the shaft on a lathe. I mentioned the bumps on the shaft and he could not feel them. His assistant acknowledged that there were numerous bumps on the shaft. It actually feels like the shaft is bumpy, almost like someone took a file and tried to make a smooth round shaft by sanding the shaft with the file. I normally do not feel dings in my shafts and am only particular about the taper on my shafts.

Does anyone know what could have happened to my new shaft? It is SO bumpy that I cannot play with it. He offered to not charge me but he did not know how the shaft got so bumpy. After his assistant showed him the bumps he acknowledged that there were many bumps on the shaft but did not know how they got there. This shaft wasn't dropped and the bumpiness was not caused by dings, of that I'm sure.

Thanks for any insight. I will probably try to fix the problem using my electric drill unless I get better suggestions from you guys.

Thanks,
JoeyA
Click to expand...

Joey, it almost sounds like he tapered the shaft without using a sanding block. The bumps could be taper ridges or uneven areas more than bumps. Many repairman have not learned that by sanding a shaft to change the taper the only way is with a block not by holding the sand paper by hand.

If this is not the problem then I would suspect that the bumps could be areas where the grain has raised. If this is the case the first thing to due is to burnish the shaft very well, this will cause the bumps to decrease in size. Then wax and burnish the shaft again, and really burnish the wax into the wood. Now by doing this the bumps may disappear temporarily, so I would hang the shaft for a few days and see what happens. If they return repeat the procedure, if not you are good to go.

If they return or if they are due to uneven areas, you may need to have a different repairman properly do the job.

I really am not sure what you mean by bumps, but I hope this helps!!

Craig
 
manwon said:
Joey, it almost sounds like he tapered the shaft without using a sanding block. The bumps could be taper ridges or uneven areas more than bumps. Many repairman have not learned that by sanding a shaft to change the taper the only way is with a block not by holding the sand paper by hand.

If this is not the problem then I would suspect that the bumps could be areas where the grain has raised. If this is the case the first thing to due is to burnish the shaft very well, this will cause the bumps to decrease in size. Then wax and burnish the shaft again, and really burnish the wax into the wood. Now by doing this the bumps may disappear temporarily, so I would hang the shaft for a few days and see what happens. If they return repeat the procedure, if not you are good to go.

If they return or if they are due to uneven areas, you may need to have a different repairman properly do the job.

I really am not sure what you mean by bumps, but I hope this helps!!

Craig
Click to expand...

Thanks for the insight. I have tapered a shaft without a sanding block but I used 1000-2500 grit sand paper and most of it was above 1000. It took forever and I didn't grip the sandpaper tightly at all. But your idea makes sense to me.

I will probably use a sanding block and very fine sand paper to burnish the bumps down if possible. If you ever feel a shaft that feels like this you will know what I mean. It is unbelievable how bumpy it feels, kind of like a gravel road that has rain washouts on it. I have only felt one other shaft that was this bad before.

Any other ideas to fix the problem without shaving the shaft down to a pencil diameter?

thanks,

JoeyA
 
If you feel the shaft while its turning on the lathe you will definitely be able to feel all the dings... you can probably get rid of them by cleaning the shaft with a wet magic eraser, then let it dry and have the guy go over it with some sandpaper on the lathe.
 
JoeyA said:
Thanks for the insight. I have tapered a shaft without a sanding block but I used 1000-2500 grit sand paper and most of it was above 1000. It took forever and I didn't grip the sandpaper tightly at all. But your idea makes sense to me.

I will probably use a sanding block and very fine sand paper to burnish the bumps down if possible. If you ever feel a shaft that feels like this you will know what I mean. It is unbelievable how bumpy it feels, kind of like a gravel road that has rain washouts on it. I have only felt one other shaft that was this bad before.

Any other ideas to fix the problem without shaving the shaft down to a pencil diameter?

thanks,

Joey you could also try applying Super Glue to the shaft, and then taking it down this may help equal out the dips / valleys causing the bumps.

Here is a photo of a sanding mandrel / block that you can buy from Joe Porper, or you can make one. The one pictured is 3.5 inch long, I also have one I made that is 6 inch long. All you do is place the sand paper in the grooved section and place the shaft on the sand paper and fold the leather around the bottom for support. I normally keep the wood bottom facing up during sanding and the folded leather down. By using this mandrel chatter, or an uneven surface is not ever a problem, it will keep the shaft perfectly round.

1.jpg

2.jpg

3.jpg

Hope this helps Joey!!!
Click to expand...
 
manwon said:
JoeyA said:
Thanks for the insight. I have tapered a shaft without a sanding block but I used 1000-2500 grit sand paper and most of it was above 1000. It took forever and I didn't grip the sandpaper tightly at all. But your idea makes sense to me.

I will probably use a sanding block and very fine sand paper to burnish the bumps down if possible. If you ever feel a shaft that feels like this you will know what I mean. It is unbelievable how bumpy it feels, kind of like a gravel road that has rain washouts on it. I have only felt one other shaft that was this bad before.

Any other ideas to fix the problem without shaving the shaft down to a pencil diameter?

thanks,

Joey you could also try applying Super Glue to the shaft, and then taking it down this may help equal out the dips / valleys causing the bumps.

Here is a photo of a sanding mandrel / block that you can buy from Joe Porper, or you can make one. The one pictured is 3.5 inch long, I also have one I made that is 6 inch long. All you do is place the sand paper in the grooved section and place the shaft on the sand paper and fold the leather around the bottom for support. I normally keep the wood bottom facing up during sanding and the folded leather down. By using this mandrel chatter, or an uneven surface is not ever a problem, it will keep the shaft perfectly round.

View attachment 63608

View attachment 63609

View attachment 63610

Hope this helps Joey!!!
Click to expand...

That looks much better than the sanding block I had in my mind.
Thanks Craig.
JoeyA
Click to expand...
 
Joey that kinda sucks.That is one of the shafts to your POW/MIA cue right.What is the current size of the shaft right at the ferrule?I have tapered 8 or 10 shafts with a drill chucked up in a vise with great results.They turned out just like I wanted.Its kinda like when you wet sand a fresh clear coat on a newly painted vehicle.Many people use sanding blocks and I've seen some use their hand.The key is to use the palm of your hand to evenly distribute the pressure.If you use your fingers you have four pressure points,if you understand what I mean.It's the same effect when you grip the sandpaper with your fingers and your palm.You dont distribute the pressure evenly.When I taper a shaft,say I have to go from 13mm to 12.75mm or so,I'll start with fairly aggressive paper and work my way up so it doesn't take me 3hrs to do it.I'll use 240 or so and start lightly to get it down then step up to 400,600,800 to get the scratches out then polish it with 1500.When I turn shafts I double the paper and wrap it around the shaft and use both of my palms being carefull to keep even pressure and keep moving back and forth as to not stay in one spot.I use a micrometer every pass to make sure i'm on the right track especially right at the ferrule,and turning the ferrule itself.What happened with your shaft maybe what I was saying about gripping the paper with your fingers.It may have created the bumps/ridges you are feeling.I would have to see it in person to know.That's just my two cents.
 
Rickey said:
Joey that kinda sucks.That is one of the shafts to your POW/MIA cue right.What is the current size of the shaft right at the ferrule?I have tapered 8 or 10 shafts with a drill chucked up in a vise with great results.They turned out just like I wanted.Its kinda like when you wet sand a fresh clear coat on a newly painted vehicle.Many people use sanding blocks and I've seen some use their hand.The key is to use the palm of your hand to evenly distribute the pressure.If you use your fingers you have four pressure points,if you understand what I mean.It's the same effect when you grip the sandpaper with your fingers and your palm.You dont distribute the pressure evenly.When I taper a shaft,say I have to go from 13mm to 12.75mm or so,I'll start with fairly aggressive paper and work my way up so it doesn't take me 3hrs to do it.I'll use 240 or so and start lightly to get it down then step up to 400,600,800 to get the scratches out then polish it with 1500.When I turn shafts I double the paper and wrap it around the shaft and use both of my palms being carefull to keep even pressure and keep moving back and forth as to not stay in one spot.I use a micrometer every pass to make sure i'm on the right track especially right at the ferrule,and turning the ferrule itself.What happened with your shaft maybe what I was saying about gripping the paper with your fingers.It may have created the bumps/ridges you are feeling.I would have to see it in person to know.That's just my two cents.
Click to expand...

Good suggestions. I will probably have a go at the shaft and maybe back the sandpaper up with a thick piece of leather but will use my palms as you suggested.
Thanks Rickey.
JoeyA
 
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