Team Philippines Demolishes Team Taiwan

[sonnynav]

Philippine Cue Artists Clinch Victory


EVEN WITHOUT the greatest, the rest of the Philippines¡¯ best proved enough to take on the dreaded Taiwanese cue artists.

Antonio "Nickoy" Lining and Antonio Gabica made short work of ChinShung Yang and Che-Wei Fu, 9-1, to hand the country the title in the RP-Taiwan 9-Ball Challenge at the Octagon Hall in Robinson¡¯s Galleria.

Needing only five racks to secure the $40,000 winner¡¯s share, the Filipino duo chose to go for the kill ¡ª a cold-blooded massacre in this case.

The Taiwanese, tagged as the Filipinos¡¯ only rival in Asian billiards supremacy, settled for the loser¡¯s purse of $20,000.

"Mahirap nang masilat kaya talagang tinarget namin yung panalo" (We really went for the win for it will be too dangerous to give them a chance) said Lining, who finally showed the form that made him an international sensation not too long ago.

The score stood at 25-17 with two doubles matches remaining and the hosts are assured of at least a fourpoint winning margin.

Marlon Manalo and Dennis Orcullo earlier scored a convincing 9-3 win over the Taiwanese pair of Fong Pang Chao and PeiWei Chang to virtually clinch the title for the country.

The host is handicapped by the absence of pool legends Efren "Bata" Reyes and Francisco "Django" Bustamante, but their non-appearance only made the win more impressive considering that Taiwan brought in their howitzers led by twice World Pool champ Chao and Asian Games gold medal winner Yang.

Inspired by Manalo¡¯s amazing come-from-behind 9-8 triumph over Yang in the final individual match Wednesday, the Filipinos raced to a 6-0 lead highlighted by Orcullo¡¯s golden break on the sixth.

Counting Manalo¡¯s eight-frame cluster in his win, the Filipinos had won 14 straight racks, the longest run in the threeday event sponsored by Motolite, PCSO, Elasto Seal, No Fear, Emperador Brandy, Air21, FedEx, Phil.Star, Fortune Tobacco and Tanduay

"Maganda ang naging simula namin kaya napressure agad yung mga kalaban" (We started very strong that's why they were pressured) said Manalo, who in the process avenged his opening day loss to Chao.

True to Manalo¡¯s observation, the Taiwanese appeared jittery in the midst of the Filipino¡¯s assault with Chang missing gimmes including a simple side-to-side shot on the nine-ball in the 10th frame that enabled the Filipinos to reach the hill at 8-2.

 

[ArNz]

on a slow n color red cloth? why not use fast standard cloth so it will be fair enuff to the other guest country. well set plans to win it!!!

 

[sonnynav]

on a slow n color red cloth? why not use fast standard cloth so it will be fair enuff to the other guest country. well set plans to win it!!!

Yes a slow cloth was used but that doesn't necessarily mean that the host country was not being fair. First of all it was pretty obvious that BOTH sides had their share of difficulty adjusting to the table/cloth.

Furthermore, a professional pool player SHOULD have the ability to adopt or adjust to any table given him. They requested a change in format in the middle of the double's competition and it was granted them right away, but they DID NOT request the cloth to be changed. If they lost, it is NOT because of the cloth and they CANNOT give that as an alibi for losing.

 

[Renegade]

The Filipinoscan't celebrate just yet. They still have to beat the Taiwanese on their home turf.

 

[crawler486]

on a slow n color red cloth? why not use fast standard cloth so it will be fair enuff to the other guest country. well set plans to win it!!!

Yeaah Right! Filipinos are cheaters that's why many of them beats the hell out of pool players all over the world. I suppose Efren Reyes also cheats
which explains how he attained his prominence in billiards...
Thanks ArNz for figuring that out!!!

 

[ArNz]

Yeaah Right! Filipinos are cheaters that's why many of them beats the hell out of pool players all over the world. I suppose Efren Reyes also cheats
which explains how he attained his prominence in billiards...
Thanks ArNz for figuring that out!!!

I didn't say they cheat! Did u read it on my post? I don't think so... But to make it a fair game why put it in an international standard equipment. Yeah goodplayers can adapt to any table but if you want to make a decision of who's best why not give the best equipment for both.

And BTW I'm Filipino so don't say I'm rooting for the Taiwanese... it's just that years of living in America helped me be more open minded than before. If they win, they win. If they lose, they lose BUT put it on a fair condition.

And BTW years ago the Americans came to the Philippines to play and they did the same thing... low A/C setting n slow cloth!

Heck!!!

 

[kep2]

Please define fair conditions.

I didn't say they cheat! Did u read it on my post? I don't think so... But to make it a fair game why put it in an international standard equipment. Yeah goodplayers can adapt to any table but if you want to make a decision of who's best why not give the best equipment for both.

And BTW I'm Filipino so don't say I'm rooting for the Taiwanese... it's just that years of living in America helped me be more open minded than before. If they win, they win. If they lose, they lose BUT put it on a fair condition.

And BTW years ago the Americans came to the Philippines to play and they did the same thing... low A/C setting n slow cloth!

Heck!!!

What constitutes an "international standard equipment"?

 

[ArNz]

What constitutes an "international standard equipment"?

860 simonis used in WPC n US Open. Or Even Gorina or Champion cloth as an alternate coz most pppolhalls now use faster cloh. It's damn Y2K's n I dunno why they still use slow cloth on that particlar TV match-up between Taiwan n Phils. since a lot of the pool rooms in the Philippines uses fast cloth now. Hint hint hint. Lter I'll be out in a week.

 

[Renegade]

I'm not sure but I think they used Simonis. I think one of the commentators mentioned it. Can't be sure though. Still, I think the cloth shouldn't matter much though, since they all played on the same cloth.

 

[crawler486]

I didn't say they cheat! Did u read it on my post? I don't think so... But to make it a fair game why put it in an international standard equipment. Yeah goodplayers can adapt to any table but if you want to make a decision of who's best why not give the best equipment for both.

And BTW I'm Filipino so don't say I'm rooting for the Taiwanese... it's just that years of living in America helped me be more open minded than before. If they win, they win. If they lose, they lose BUT put it on a fair condition.

And BTW years ago the Americans came to the Philippines to play and they did the same thing... low A/C setting n slow cloth!

Heck!!!

You better be staying there in the US because we true Filipinos dont want u here. Fast cloth, slow cloth, it doesnt matter with Filipino pool players because here or abroad they would always manage to win.

 

[parvus1202]

I really don't know where the information that they used slow cloth comes from. The organizers are top people in the pool world they should know which is better for the game. If all in the Philippines use fast cloth, then why should they use slow in a very expensive match? They're all should struggle then. I know a lot of matches and tournament already staged in the Philippines, not all were Filipino winners, but not one complained about the standard of cloth or venues or anything. A lot of them even stayed longer, they enjoyed it. I hope we can hear from Archer, maybe he can give some insight.

Cheers!!

 

[888]

brunswick table

the table was brunswick and it's a local brand. they say therea are more tables here with wool than with simonis. can anybody confirm which is more expensive.

 

[888]

copy - paste

somebody from the other forum posted this.

"Five years ago when I was in Philippines, only Puyat's places had Simonis cloths. Puyat's pool halls were open only until 2.00 am.
All 'tirador' places, where the games continued till the morning had 100% wool clothes. Maybe 98% of the games I played or saw, were played with these 100% wool cloths.
Nikoy Lining (at that time no 1 money player after Efren), Warren Kiamco, Lee Van Corteza, Ronnie Alcano, Gaga Gabica, Alex Pagulayan, Victor Arpilleda, Alan Quartero, Snooky Villaneuve, Don Don Razalon and many more others, were everynight in those tirador places.
Efren, Andam and Luat visited more seldom, but also they have grown up with 100% wool clothes. (Django was at that time in Germany, Alex part of the time in Canada).

Eventhough the games have propably moved much more to these better places like Coronado Lanes, Rack'n'Roll, etc. I would make a wild guess that all Pinoy pros, no matter if the career is 10 or 40 years long, have played maybe like the same 98% of their games with the now famous 100% wool cloth.
Ofcourse with Django, and those who have lived or travelled much abroad the % is less, but still they all have grown with that cloth, and that's the important thing.

That's where the Pinoy players, pros and amateurs, have got the famous wrist movement and extra touch to the cue ball.
Taiwanese have straight, smooth and short cue action, accurate safety and strategy game 'cause of the small pockets they are used to. Taiwanese players also stand with straight legs cause the stillness of the stance becomes more important.
Germans play simple and accurate pocketing game, lacking in the strategy and safety game, 'cause of the straight pool backgrounds
Pinoys hi-class strategy knowledge comes from rotation, and also from the cloth. If you're straight, or the cb is frozen on the cushion, you're in big truoble. That's why you have to be extra careful. With Simonis, there are still many options.
Also top english is much more familiar with pinoys than bottom english. Long draw with used 100% wool cloth is very very difficult(if the distance with cb and ob is long). Top spin isn't. That's why you see Efren choke with draws sometimes, seldom with follows. (Also the heavy weight of his cue is a matter here).

The same, like pinoys are the best in pool, finnish are the best in rally driving. We have long winter, and we are used to drive in snow and ice, which gives the 'extra touch' to the car. When finnish drivers go to sand or asfalt, they are the best or among the best. When drivers from Spain(where is never snow) comes to drive with ice or snow, finnish drivers could drive backwards to beat them (ok, maybe small exaggeration there )
Anyway, you got my point? When the spanish driver comes here, his full focus is on how to keep him self on the road, and not to drive him self to the drift. He cannot drive as fast as he wishes.
Same with players who come to Ph. All their focus has to be, not to scratch nor loose the position. The lack of confidense comes.


***


I was 5 months in Phils. and I never got used to the cloth. Eventhough sometimes I played good, I still felt like struggling.
For a practise and developement, it was good though.
When Chamat came back from States last time, I asked him why he goes there, why not in Phils? He answered: It's much more difficult to win money in Ph. In Matchroom WPC 99-04, only Efren, Alex and Django are higher ranked filipinos compared to Chamat. In money games in Ph. Chamat couldn't propably reach the top 20. Yet he is a world class money player.
I also heard when Okumura came to Ph. in late 90's, that they treated him like an amateur on the table cause he was so lost with the cb.

It's a big advantage to have the possibility to practise with the 100% wool cloth. In WPC the cloth and the size of the pocket is standard. If tournament hasn't any intenational protocol, it's totally ok to use that cloth.
I remeber Mika complained some years ago when he came from Taiwan that they use some different polish wax on the balls and it's difficult to adjust.
That's life. That's pool players life. The best players are those, who can adjust them selves to the conditions at hand and handling the pressure what the different equipments and the enviroment gives.

Who do you think is the best in that?

Well the answer is ofcourse Efren, Alex being the one who can take the title in some years.

Also matters like language barriers and cultural differences can affect the performance.
I think that is the reason why we haven't seen Taiwanese players performing as good in States or in Europe as they do in Taiwan. Normally they don't even travel to States."

 

[ArNz]

You better be staying there in the US because we true Filipinos dont want u here. Fast cloth, slow cloth, it doesnt matter with Filipino pool players because here or abroad they would always manage to win.

Your reply speaks the natue of the person u are... CHILDISH!

As always some NOT all Filipino close minded are. Not all but mostly like you! I use to be like you rooting for my countrymen biasedly, but then I realize you have to be fair, it's not whether you white, black or asian but what's right n fair! And your attitude of replyin shows the kind of people we don't want to represent the best Philippine poolplayers to offer!

Goodluck!!!

 

[ArNz]

somebody from the other forum posted this.

"Five years ago when I was in Philippines, only Puyat's places had Simonis cloths. Puyat's pool halls were open only until 2.00 am.
All 'tirador' places, where the games continued till the morning had 100% wool clothes. Maybe 98% of the games I played or saw, were played with these 100% wool cloths.
Nikoy Lining (at that time no 1 money player after Efren), Warren Kiamco, Lee Van Corteza, Ronnie Alcano, Gaga Gabica, Alex Pagulayan, Victor Arpilleda, Alan Quartero, Snooky Villaneuve, Don Don Razalon and many more others, were everynight in those tirador places.
Efren, Andam and Luat visited more seldom, but also they have grown up with 100% wool clothes. (Django was at that time in Germany, Alex part of the time in Canada).

Eventhough the games have propably moved much more to these better places like Coronado Lanes, Rack'n'Roll, etc. I would make a wild guess that all Pinoy pros, no matter if the career is 10 or 40 years long, have played maybe like the same 98% of their games with the now famous 100% wool cloth.
Ofcourse with Django, and those who have lived or travelled much abroad the % is less, but still they all have grown with that cloth, and that's the important thing.

That's where the Pinoy players, pros and amateurs, have got the famous wrist movement and extra touch to the cue ball.
Taiwanese have straight, smooth and short cue action, accurate safety and strategy game 'cause of the small pockets they are used to. Taiwanese players also stand with straight legs cause the stillness of the stance becomes more important.
Germans play simple and accurate pocketing game, lacking in the strategy and safety game, 'cause of the straight pool backgrounds
Pinoys hi-class strategy knowledge comes from rotation, and also from the cloth. If you're straight, or the cb is frozen on the cushion, you're in big truoble. That's why you have to be extra careful. With Simonis, there are still many options.
Also top english is much more familiar with pinoys than bottom english. Long draw with used 100% wool cloth is very very difficult(if the distance with cb and ob is long). Top spin isn't. That's why you see Efren choke with draws sometimes, seldom with follows. (Also the heavy weight of his cue is a matter here).

The same, like pinoys are the best in pool, finnish are the best in rally driving. We have long winter, and we are used to drive in snow and ice, which gives the 'extra touch' to the car. When finnish drivers go to sand or asfalt, they are the best or among the best. When drivers from Spain(where is never snow) comes to drive with ice or snow, finnish drivers could drive backwards to beat them (ok, maybe small exaggeration there )
Anyway, you got my point? When the spanish driver comes here, his full focus is on how to keep him self on the road, and not to drive him self to the drift. He cannot drive as fast as he wishes.
Same with players who come to Ph. All their focus has to be, not to scratch nor loose the position. The lack of confidense comes.


***


I was 5 months in Phils. and I never got used to the cloth. Eventhough sometimes I played good, I still felt like struggling.
For a practise and developement, it was good though.
When Chamat came back from States last time, I asked him why he goes there, why not in Phils? He answered: It's much more difficult to win money in Ph. In Matchroom WPC 99-04, only Efren, Alex and Django are higher ranked filipinos compared to Chamat. In money games in Ph. Chamat couldn't propably reach the top 20. Yet he is a world class money player.
I also heard when Okumura came to Ph. in late 90's, that they treated him like an amateur on the table cause he was so lost with the cb.

It's a big advantage to have the possibility to practise with the 100% wool cloth. In WPC the cloth and the size of the pocket is standard. If tournament hasn't any intenational protocol, it's totally ok to use that cloth.
I remeber Mika complained some years ago when he came from Taiwan that they use some different polish wax on the balls and it's difficult to adjust.
That's life. That's pool players life. The best players are those, who can adjust them selves to the conditions at hand and handling the pressure what the different equipments and the enviroment gives.

Who do you think is the best in that?

Well the answer is ofcourse Efren, Alex being the one who can take the title in some years.

Also matters like language barriers and cultural differences can affect the performance.
I think that is the reason why we haven't seen Taiwanese players performing as good in States or in Europe as they do in Taiwan. Normally they don't even travel to States."

See what I mean? In todays modern age fast cloth is mostly use. If pool is included in the olympics, do you think they would use slower cloth than faster to know who is the best pool player to get the gold???

It's the same w/ Taiwan n Philippines or whatever. U need to be fair and if the Philippines beat all of them in a faster cloth(w/c btw is mostly use on major tourneys) then so be it but don't scream "blah blah demolished blah blah" like you've won a lotto.

Like I said they used slow cloth coz that' what even my friend old me who is in Manila. He said hat that's the strategy so that the Taiwanese will get tired easilly on the table condition. Talking about fairplay now there! Just like I said that's what they did years ago when Corey Deuel and the rest came to the Phils.

I wonder why last time Archer n Mika won ONCue and that no one talks about how they demolished Bata Django n the others... hmmm see what I mean... and thats on a fast cloth!

 

[parvus1202]

Here is about Simonis 860.

Simonis 860 Professional Tournament 7 foot pool table cloth was developed especially for competition-level 9-ball billiards. It is slightly slower than the Simonis 760 blend. Simonis 860 is 90% wool and 10% nylon.

Wool is used because it is very durable. Simonis was the cloth used in Asian 9 Ball Tour. Simonis have different surfaces also comes in red.
So I believe they used the same cloth, as what Renegade said he heard thru commentator. And also not because USA or WPC use Simonis, it's world standard. Besides, I don't think Philippines make their own cloth, they don't have sheeps, they usually buy them from China. So Chinese should have the slight advantage.
But whatever, let's wait for the next match in Taiwan.

 

[sonnynav]

See what I mean? In todays modern age fast cloth is mostly use. If pool is included in the olympics, do you think they would use slower cloth than faster to know who is the best pool player to get the gold???

It's the same w/ Taiwan n Philippines or whatever. U need to be fair and if the Philippines beat all of them in a faster cloth(w/c btw is mostly use on major tourneys) then so be it but don't scream "blah blah demolished blah blah" like you've won a lotto.

Like I said they used slow cloth coz that' what even my friend old me who is in Manila. He said hat that's the strategy so that the Taiwanese will get tired easilly on the table condition. Talking about fairplay now there! Just like I said that's what they did years ago when Corey Deuel and the rest came to the Phils.

I wonder why last time Archer n Mika won ONCue and that no one talks about how they demolished Bata Django n the others... hmmm see what I mean... and thats on a fast cloth!

Is that all you read on that post? How about this: "That's life. That's pool players life. The best players are those, who can adjust them selves to the conditions at hand and handling the pressure what the different equipments and the enviroment gives."

You and your friend can make conclusions like this till kingdom come but the fact of the matter is that the Taiwanese DID NOT give a hoot about what you're complaining about! They have nothing to complain! They could have requested for a cloth change if its giving them problems but THEY DID NOT! They lost because they played BAD. Simple. And here's one for you to think about - ALL the Taiwanese players fell by the wayside like falling dominoes a week later on the ON CUE 3 Tournament (held also here on the same venue), and they played on FAST Simoniz 860 cloth, and guess who still won? A Filipino! Remember the 2004 Asian 9-Ball Tour stop in Taipei? They use pretty darn fast cloths over there but guess who won? Still Efren! The Taiwanese didn't even went past their eliminations, most of them eliminated by Filipinos. Then, when it was the Philippines' turn to host the Asian Tour, Lee Van Corteza won on an all Filipino finals. Oh yes, a fast cloth was used. Many more can be cited here but as you can see, it didnt matter what kind of cloth the Taiwanese or any professional player plays on. If a player lost, it is only because he/she was outplayed.

The Filipinos only KNOW so well that they are well capable of kicking anybody's asses on ANY playing condition, so why the need to "cheat"? Is this really necessary? Furthermore, the equipment used was just provided by a sponsor (Gameworx, a big pool hall in Alabang). I played this same table over at Gameworx and i'm pretty sure that it was brought to the tournament as is. Nothing was changed. Your imagined conspiracy never happened.

You are entitled to your own opinions, but for all its worth, you cannot prove that the organizers of the RP-Taiwan Challenge intentionally used a slow cloth to better our chances to win. That is a reckless conclusion. Simply ridiculous.

 

[kep2]

on a slow n color red cloth? why not use fast standard cloth so it will be fair enuff to the other guest country. well set plans to win it!!!

Although there was no actual mention of the word "cheating" as you vehemently dodged it, what did you really mean by your last statement then?

 

[parvus1202]

Just a thought, kick ass, demolished or anything on that line is not really necessary. Sports make countries connected and be friends. If both players come from same country, then they could say what they like, as a tease or joke perhaps. Top pool players are now used to each other, they shake hands, exchange jokes and play other games. Fans should also be tamed, congratulate the winners and respect the losers. Insinuating a cheat is also unnecessary, specially if without proof. Just MHO.
Cheers!!

 

[crawler486]

See what I mean? In todays modern age fast cloth is mostly use. If pool is included in the olympics, do you think they would use slower cloth than faster to know who is the best pool player to get the gold???

It's the same w/ Taiwan n Philippines or whatever. U need to be fair and if the Philippines beat all of them in a faster cloth(w/c btw is mostly use on major tourneys) then so be it but don't scream "blah blah demolished blah blah" like you've won a lotto.
Like I said they used slow cloth coz that' what even my friend old me who is in Manila. He said hat that's the strategy so that the Taiwanese will get tired easilly on the table condition. Talking about fairplay now there! Just like I said that's what they did years ago when Corey Deuel and the rest came to the Phils.

I wonder why last time Archer n Mika won ONCue and that no one talks about how they demolished Bata Django n the others... hmmm see what I mean... and thats on a fast cloth!

It really pains you to see Filipino triumph over foreign players..
Where you molested as a child by a Filipino pool player?
Did the cue really hurt?
bwehehehe !!