The Color of Money -- 22 years later.

9BallPaul

9BallPaul

Banned
Recently I caught The Hustler on cable, and enjoyed it immensely for the first time in probably 20 years. Jackie Gleason is at minimum Paul Newman's equal as an actor, and he shoots a mean stick (or did then) in his own right.

That whetted my appetitie for the sequel. I'd seen Color of Money soon after it came out, and if I rememember correctly, I stalked out of the theater before it was over. I'd never seen a Tom Cruise movie before that -- I had no idea who Tom Cruise was -- but I was so offended by his character I couldn't stand to watch him.

But I've mellowed since then, and I was especially interested in seeing a young and skinny Keith, at a time when he was on top of his game. Also some good footage of some infamous pool halls, and other characters, such as the Miz, who jumped out at you.

But once again, I was revolted by Cruise. His character was just abysmal. And even Newman fell down, in my opinion. Without Gleason to guide him, he looked much less the player and more the banger. And let's not even get into Cruise and his clumsy technique.

Help me here. Am I being overly biased because I can't get past my revulsion for the Vince character, or am I being realistic? All I know is that any punk who walked into our poolroom in Denver and carried on like that, he wouldn't walk out. He'd be hobbled, or better. And there would be no witnesses.

And Newman. He gets ready for the pool hall by putting on a silk tie? You gotta be kidding me. A guy on his way home from work, sure, play in a silk tie, but to dress up for a game that way? Never seen such a thing, and I've known some dapper players.

Is this really a better movie than I give it credit for?
 
I wasn't really offended by Cruise's character, but I do think that the Hustler is a better film.

Speaking of cameos, did you notice in the scene where Paul Newman is standing on line to register for the Atlantic City tournament you can see Louie Roberts in line a couple of people behind him.
 
I never noticed that before... but I will be watching it in just a few minutes to see. thanks for the heads up!
 
Scorsese is a master.. of the cinema, not pool.

9BallPaul said:
Recently I caught The Hustler on cable, and enjoyed it immensely for the first time in probably 20 years. Jackie Gleason is at minimum Paul Newman's equal as an actor, and he shoots a mean stick (or did then) in his own right.

That whetted my appetitie for the sequel. I'd seen Color of Money soon after it came out, and if I rememember correctly, I stalked out of the theater before it was over. I'd never seen a Tom Cruise movie before that -- I had no idea who Tom Cruise was -- but I was so offended by his character I couldn't stand to watch him.

But I've mellowed since then, and I was especially interested in seeing a young and skinny Keith, at a time when he was on top of his game. Also some good footage of some infamous pool halls, and other characters, such as the Miz, who jumped out at you.

But once again, I was revolted by Cruise. His character was just abysmal. And even Newman fell down, in my opinion. Without Gleason to guide him, he looked much less the player and more the banger. And let's not even get into Cruise and his clumsy technique.

Help me here. Am I being overly biased because I can't get past my revulsion for the Vince character, or am I being realistic? All I know is that any punk who walked into our poolroom in Denver and carried on like that, he wouldn't walk out. He'd be hobbled, or better. And there would be no witnesses.

And Newman. He gets ready for the pool hall by putting on a silk tie? You gotta be kidding me. A guy on his way home from work, sure, play in a silk tie, but to dress up for a game that way? Never seen such a thing, and I've known some dapper players.

Is this really a better movie than I give it credit for?
Click to expand...

You gotta give it up for Martin Scorsese. He is a real master at depicting what the public perceives as being 'cool' or 'trendy'. That is what the picture is about, not necessarily 'realistic pool'. It is a depiction of the imagination of the public's perception of pool and the bad boy image that goes with hustling. I think it is a superb movie on a true level of entertainment. Look at Tom Cruise in other projects such as Top Gun, Days of Thunder, or even Cocktail. It was not really about the flying, racing or bartending so much as the overall entertainment value. I personally thought some of the lines were kinda cheesy and hollywoodish, but I am willing to overlook all of that to enjoy the movie as a whole from a spectator's point of view. But that's just my opinion . . . ~~~~who am I? I am no one special.
 
I find it hard to watch too

I find TCOM hard to watch in places too. It's an OK movie but I can't see anything great there. On the other hand, Jackie Gleason definitely deserved the best supporting Oscar he was nominated for although I have to admit that Scott played slimeball perfectly too. Probably the best actor in TCOM was Forrest Tucker best I recall. Never been a Cruise fan myself.

TCOM wasn't that bad but it is inevitably compared to The Hustler and there just isn't any comparison.

Hu


9BallPaul said:
Recently I caught The Hustler on cable, and enjoyed it immensely for the first time in probably 20 years. Jackie Gleason is at minimum Paul Newman's equal as an actor, and he shoots a mean stick (or did then) in his own right.

That whetted my appetitie for the sequel. I'd seen Color of Money soon after it came out, and if I rememember correctly, I stalked out of the theater before it was over. I'd never seen a Tom Cruise movie before that -- I had no idea who Tom Cruise was -- but I was so offended by his character I couldn't stand to watch him.

But I've mellowed since then, and I was especially interested in seeing a young and skinny Keith, at a time when he was on top of his game. Also some good footage of some infamous pool halls, and other characters, such as the Miz, who jumped out at you.

But once again, I was revolted by Cruise. His character was just abysmal. And even Newman fell down, in my opinion. Without Gleason to guide him, he looked much less the player and more the banger. And let's not even get into Cruise and his clumsy technique.

Help me here. Am I being overly biased because I can't get past my revulsion for the Vince character, or am I being realistic? All I know is that any punk who walked into our poolroom in Denver and carried on like that, he wouldn't walk out. He'd be hobbled, or better. And there would be no witnesses.

And Newman. He gets ready for the pool hall by putting on a silk tie? You gotta be kidding me. A guy on his way home from work, sure, play in a silk tie, but to dress up for a game that way? Never seen such a thing, and I've known some dapper players.

Is this really a better movie than I give it credit for?
Click to expand...
 
I still love TCOM and probably always will. The only complaint I have about it is that you know that as soon as Tom Cruise strokes a cue he isn't a pool player. His character is as flaky as you can find in a pool hustler with his over the top confidence and wise ass comments.

I still like The Hustler better.
 
ShootingArts said:
I find TCOM hard to watch in places too. It's an OK movie but I can't see anything great there. On the other hand, Jackie Gleason definitely deserved the best supporting Oscar he was nominated for although I have to admit that Scott played slimeball perfectly too. Probably the best actor in TCOM was Forrest Tucker best I recall. Never been a Cruise fan myself.

TCOM wasn't that bad but it is inevitably compared to The Hustler and there just isn't any comparison.

Hu
Click to expand...

Hu:

You mean Forest Whitaker, the electric shock treatment "subject" that hustled Paul Newman? ("Be honest with me, do you think I should lose some weight?") I would have to agree with you. And after watching a series of movies he acted in, capped off by "The Last King of Scotland," I'll have to say his Academy Award was long overdue.

I snarl when I see a movie has Cruise in it. Can't stand 'im. About the only movie I thought he did a decent job in (where his horse's arse attitude wasn't allowed to get in the way), was Legend. That's it.

And George C. Scott -- what a job he did in the Hustler! Gravely voice (Johnny Ervolino-ish, but with a chainsaw timbre), combined with the superb acting, definitely put him on the map of my all-time favorites.

But as to TCOM as the sequel to The Hustler, as the Miz would say, "we didn't deserve that." :)

-Sean
 
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Don't you mean Forest Whitaker?

Either way you're right. He and Newman had most of the best lines(besides Keith immortal ones). But his role as Amos was really great. I read somewhere that the MIGHTY BUGS RUCKER rip... was originally cast to play that part. Even though he could drain banks for days, he couldn't deliver his lines and didn't get the part.... where the heck did I read that... Jay's book? maybe, but I think I read it somewhere before that and I'm not sure it's even in the book. Anyway, they chose Forest Whitaker and the rest is history.

I like it for what it is. a great story, not the most technical display of pool or the life around high stakes gambling. Poolhall Junkies was also short on the realistic depiction of "gambling" or pool in general. PHJ sucked! and I apologize if anyone here worked on that movie. I don't know if they had a technical director or not... but it was WAAAAAAY OFF!

ShootingArts said:
I find TCOM hard to watch in places too. It's an OK movie but I can't see anything great there. On the other hand, Jackie Gleason definitely deserved the best supporting Oscar he was nominated for although I have to admit that Scott played slimeball perfectly too. Probably the best actor in TCOM was Forrest Tucker best I recall. Never been a Cruise fan myself.

TCOM wasn't that bad but it is inevitably compared to The Hustler and there just isn't any comparison.

Hu
Click to expand...
 
i thought TCOM was great. i can watch it over and over. anyone that has ever been on the road or gambled alot can listen to paul newmans lines and understand. smart players that is.

i also hated george c scott in the hustler. what a dirtbag. lol

did you know TCOM was voted as one of the top 5 WORST sequels OF ALL-TIME!!!
 
The Hustler was amazing, but TCOM doesn't deserve to be considered a sequel. Newman was not Fast Eddie in TCOM, as far as I'm concerned.
 
ugotactionTX said:
I never noticed that before... but I will be watching it in just a few minutes to see. thanks for the heads up!
Click to expand...

You have to really look carefully but he's there.

BTW, anyone here read TCOM the book? It's VERY different from the movie, there's no Vince character, in fact the only thing it has in common with the movie is that Fast Eddie is aging and wants to make a comeback.
 
9BallPaul said:
Recently I caught The Hustler on cable, and enjoyed it immensely for the first time in probably 20 years. Jackie Gleason is at minimum Paul Newman's equal as an actor, and he shoots a mean stick (or did then) in his own right.

That whetted my appetitie for the sequel. I'd seen Color of Money soon after it came out, and if I rememember correctly, I stalked out of the theater before it was over. I'd never seen a Tom Cruise movie before that -- I had no idea who Tom Cruise was -- but I was so offended by his character I couldn't stand to watch him.

But I've mellowed since then, and I was especially interested in seeing a young and skinny Keith, at a time when he was on top of his game. Also some good footage of some infamous pool halls, and other characters, such as the Miz, who jumped out at you.

But once again, I was revolted by Cruise. His character was just abysmal. And even Newman fell down, in my opinion. Without Gleason to guide him, he looked much less the player and more the banger. And let's not even get into Cruise and his clumsy technique.

Help me here. Am I being overly biased because I can't get past my revulsion for the Vince character, or am I being realistic? All I know is that any punk who walked into our poolroom in Denver and carried on like that, he wouldn't walk out. He'd be hobbled, or better. And there would be no witnesses.

And Newman. He gets ready for the pool hall by putting on a silk tie? You gotta be kidding me. A guy on his way home from work, sure, play in a silk tie, but to dress up for a game that way? Never seen such a thing, and I've known some dapper players.

Is this really a better movie than I give it credit for?
Click to expand...

The Color of money was at best, terrible. At worst, an embarrassment. We sat there at the premier cringing in our seats as they delivered the awful lines. Newman over acted, Cruse was his usual horrible self, the plot was ridiculous, but, the public loved it. Reminds me of friends who are cops. They hate cop shows because they actually know about the subject and how ridiculous the shows are most of the time. The Color of Money from a pool stand point was a joke but the public was entertained and that is all that matters. It was a big boon to pool that we are still feeling. So in that respect, it was what it was.
 
Bobby said:
BTW, anyone here read TCOM the book? It's VERY different from the movie, there's no Vince character, in fact the only thing it has in common with the movie is that Fast Eddie is aging and wants to make a comeback.
Click to expand...

I read it. I was shocked, to be perfectly honest, when Newman got the Academy Award. Not one of his better performances, by any means. The Color of Money is ok, nowhere near The Hustler, in any category. A lot of it wasn't even believable.
 
come on... poolhall junkies was terrible. lets talk about that pc of trash

for like 5 years i was hearing about this pool movie staring christopher walken

blah.........

i have 2 words for ya... bank combos

garbage
 
The Hustler was great in just about all respects - acting, dialog, atmosphere, story. TCOM was a misuse of the Fast Eddie character and Paul Newman's talents. I love Scorcese, but this was not one of his good movies. I heard that he did it for the money to help finance a project that he really wanted to do.

What a hoot that Tom Cruise scene where he twirls the cue like a samurai sword (or light saber), running out with all stop shots my granny could make as if it were the greatest display of cuemanship ever. :angry:

One of the great things about The Hustler was the dialog. I recently re-read the book by Walter Tevis, and many of the good lines come from the book. But what they added was great too.

And how great was it that they cast Jackie Gleason, who could really play, as Minnesota Fats. Mosconi took credit for that bit of casting.

Lastly, Paul Newman had never played pool before getting the part and wound up making you believe he was the greatest player in the world. This guy had talent in more ways than one - no surprise, considering that he became a real race car driver, a real one, in his mid-forties. Oh, I could go on and on.
 
Forest Whitaker Damn it!!

Forrest Tucker was a very strong character actor and fair to middling leading man. I was focusing on how to spell Whitaker's first name and trying to remember how Tucker spelled his. Somehow "Tucker" got in the message, . . . . in other words the fingers outran the brain. Bad thing is my fingers ain't very fast! :o :( :o

Forest Whitaker has presence. That is something that I don't think can be taught. Some actors have it, some don't. Time on the stage helps bring it out but it has to be there to begin with I believe. The first time I saw him for a few minutes I thought if he looked a little better he would be a major star. Seems like he is doing pretty good without "movie star" looks.

Hu
 
ShootingArts said:
Forrest Tucker was a very strong character actor and fair to middling leading man. I was focusing on how to spell Whitaker's first name and trying to remember how Tucker spelled his. Somehow "Tucker" got in the message, . . . . in other words the fingers outran the brain. Bad thing is my fingers ain't very fast! :o :( :o

Forest Whitaker has presence. That is something that I don't think can be taught. Some actors have it, some don't. Time on the stage helps bring it out but it has to be there to begin with I believe. The first time I saw him for a few minutes I thought if he looked a little better he would be a major star. Seems like he is doing pretty good without "movie star" looks.

Hu
Click to expand...
Forrest Tucker was a pretty good pool player. I saw him at the US open in the 70's. He was front row for many matches.
 
Actors in The Hustler

(Color of Money did not remotely follow Tevis' book. The Hustler, conversly, followed the earlier book in almost every detail, save the last scene.)

Anyway, in my opinion, in addtion to Newman, Gleason and Scott, nobody has mentioned Piper Laurie -- probably the best acting performance of the whole movie. She was nominated for an Academy Award for best actress for that role of Eddie's girlfriend, Sarah Packard, in The Hustler. And she deserved to win.

RL
 
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