The Final Word on Tight Pockets at WPC

Sorry

I'm sorry but I really have to disagree with most on here.

I don't think the tight pockets affected the American pros at all. Sure, Americans missed balls but so did everyone else. Was I the only one watching when Bustamante jawed a gimme 9-ball when he was up 5-1? Or Lining miss the hill-hill 9-ball in the corner?

I think everyone is focusing so much on the finals and not looking at the actual level of play. I watched Earl run out from nowhere when he could. In fact i don't recall him missing a shot except empty breaks or failed safes.

Additionally, go back and check the groups scores. Archer was undefeated! 7 matches played, 7 matches won. Somehow I get the impression Archer had good reason to favor the tight pockets. It just so happens that he lost his first match in the elimination stages.

Morris and Strickland also had admirable records in the group stages, each finishing with 5-2 records to easily make it to the elimination rounds.

And to anyone knocking Rodney when playing Kuo, I'm guessing you weren't all watching when he drilled Luc Salvas 10-2 earlier in the tournament. Rodney missed maybe 1 or 2 balls the entire match. Otherwise the only time Luc got ot the table was when Rodney broke dry, scratched, or played safe.

I think the Americans did just fine, but at the end of the day it just so happened that two Taiwanese players made the finals. This can't be much of a surprise after last year's home court advantage when a flood of Taiwanese players took some top spots.

When all is said and done, we had 3 players in the top 16 (Morris, Deuel, Jones) despite only having 12 players who started out in the group stages. And of those 12, 9 made it past the group stages to the top 64. Are you forgetting that the group stages were played on the same tight pocket tables that the top 64 were played on? Give credit where it's due, and don't start knocking all the Americans just because we didn't get in the finals.

Two more bits:

1 - Most US pros don't practice on big sloppy bucket pockets. Go to any pool hall with a house pro and they're playing on 4" or 4 1/4" pockets. They're all tight. Just because tournaments are played in big buckets doesn't mean that the pros practice on them. Whether it's Tony Chohan at Hard Times, Max Eberle at Hollywood Billiards or Jose Parica at Hard Times, all the pros play on tight pockets until it comes time for tournament day. What makes everyone here think that the pros aren't already used to tight pockets?

2 - Wu's performance against Alain Martel in the group stages was embarrassing for a world champion. He was playing sloppily, missed makeable cuts, and missed some bank shots by a very large margin. Everyone's jumping on the Americans for missing, but why not the others?
 
Excuses, or Facts?

You know, I've been hearing this "no excuses" Bull#$%^ since I was a kid, and I am beyond sick of it. Get over this Machismo mentality and look at favorable conditions for the home players versus unfavorable conditions for Westerners. The FACT is, travel and environment do have an impact on an athlete's level of performance. The FACT is the American players did have one of the longest trips and most severe cultural adjustments to make. Excuses, No. An honest and plausible reason our guys ran out of gas. Duh!

You fly to Taiwan, ride a cab to this city center, get a good nights sleep when you would normally be eating breakfast, then get your body and mind to perform at peak level. IT simply will not happen. Anyone that has ever worked an overnight shift for a few weeks will have some idea of how these guys felt. As for my experience, the older you are, the harder it hits.

Again, bring to LA or Atlanta and let them play with two days rest. No excuses now, CHOP CHOP!!
 
Krypto said:
You know, I've been hearing this "no excuses" Bull#$%^ since I was a kid, and I am beyond sick of it. Get over this Machismo mentality and look at favorable conditions for the home players versus unfavorable conditions for Westerners. The FACT is, travel and environment do have an impact on an athlete's level of performance. The FACT is the American players did have one of the longest trips and most severe cultural adjustments to make. Excuses, No. An honest and plausible reason our guys ran out of gas. Duh!

You fly to Taiwan, ride a cab to this city center, get a good nights sleep when you would normally be eating breakfast, then get your body and mind to perform at peak level. IT simply will not happen. Anyone that has ever worked an overnight shift for a few weeks will have some idea of how these guys felt. As for my experience, the older you are, the harder it hits.

Again, bring to LA or Atlanta and let them play with two days rest. No excuses now, CHOP CHOP!!
Click to expand...

Uhh, they have been coming over from the Phillipines forever and winning, no excuses. Recently, Manalo was over here and won Reno, won Sacramento, won the Ring game then flew over to Taiwan and completely dominated most of his opponents.

Wayne
 
Krypto said:
Again, bring to LA or Atlanta and let them play with two days rest. No excuses now, CHOP CHOP!!
Click to expand...

I'm not sure why you persist with this argument. This very thing happened in May when many foreigners made very long trips to play the BCA Open in Las Vegas. The result was that the Americans managed just one of the top four spots and four of the top twelve spots. In an elite international event played on American soil, in which virtuallyt every american WPC entrant played, the American contingent came up pretty empty. Why would you expect otherwise in Atlanta or LA?

You and others arguing that home cooking is enough for the Americans to make a good showing are obviously ignoring what happened at the BCA Open just two months ago.
 
amc4 said:
Just talked with Corey and Shawn. They both said they will not be going back to the WPC if it is held in the same city. They both had a terriable time over there with the heat, humidity and the smell of hot garbage. They both felt like the Americans were unliked over there. I was sad to hear that because I would think that the WPC would be the funniest tournament to go to, I guess I was wrong. amc4
Click to expand...
I mean no disrespect, but the above-mentioned sounds a little to finicky to be given as reasons why two top professionals would refuse to vie for the world title. I'm sorry.

Furthermore, if you want heat, humidity, and the smell of hot garbage, all you have to do is go to Louisiana or The South Bronx, for that matter.

Oh, and ask Rodney Morris how he was received by the Taiwanese fans, I bet you he'd tell you a different story.
 
After a tragedy, loss or a stoke of bad luck...

1) You put the blame on others or circumstances
2) You justify
3) Take self pity
4) Accept
5) Resolve to do better
6) Move on

This applies to everyone -- american, filipino, european, asian --- even taiwanese. Kuo could have gotten it. If it were me, I'd bang my head on a wall. But I think he took it quite well.

No excuses for me. Better luck next time. Hopefully my guy will win! ;)
 
I think we need to look at this year's American performance in comparison to the previous years. The American contingent performed better this year as a whole than the previous years. At least most made it past the group stages. Morris and Deuel did fairly well and those that were expected to make it past the group stages did.

Also, home court advantage isn't much of an issue. When the WPC was held in Cardiff, the American team didn't do much better. In fact, I think the US team did on average worst in Cardiff than this year. I remember one year (can't recall off the top of my head) when only about half (or less?) of the US players made it past the group stages. Also, if you check the semi-finalists or quarter-finalists of every WPC since the the tournament was organized in Cardiff, the number of Asian players by far outnumber the number of US players.
 
no real point to argue about it.

the point is, whether they use tight pockets or not, if you're going to make a living at this.......you better be ready for anything.

the americans(and everyone else) was affected by the conditions. now they will have to make a choice.

get better, or go hungry.

i will say however, i don't think it was the pockets that hurt rodney, IMO, he was shooting rather quickly and lackidasical.

take the match he ran a 3 pack and out on, his pace was quick and careless until hundal was in the hill.

after that, his pace slowed down, he took his time, and hit the heart of the pocket.

again, IMO, it wasn't the pockets that hurt rodney.

i do think that all tourney's should be played on the type of equipment that the WPC was played on though. you shouldn't win a tourney if you're not totally focused on it.

VAP
 
amc4 said:
Haven't talked to Rodney yet but I do believe you are correct, that is too finicky, but all I did was report what Shawn and Corey told me.
Click to expand...
Point well-taken, amc4.

VAP has made some valid points, here. I did notice some intangible in Rodney's face... It didn't seem like he was hungry enough. Certainly not as hungry as Manalo, Wu, or even Mika. Of course, I don't know this for sure, but it seemed to me he was just going through the motions.

The other point VAP made I also concur with entirely. If we are talking Rodney or Archer, I don't see how the tight pockets (and WPC's pockets didn't even seem that tight) could stop them were they to get in the zone. However, not competing on tight equipment still will generate two different problems:

1) As VAP said, it could create a situation where our top players get used to not giving their all, because the equipment they are used to win on plays oh, so easy;

2) Up-and-coming american players, who'll be brought up on loose equipment, will not have a chance in the future against foreign players who play on tight pocket tables.
 
on another point, and i don't mean to sound like sonia on this one......

if you can hit the center of a large pocket, you can hit the center of a small pocket.

again, everyone who had trouble with the equipment at the WPC has two options...........

get better

go hungry

cause i gaurantee that 16 yr old is only gonna get better as time goes on.

VAP
 
I Give Up

Ok, I give up. You can have "The Last Word."

I will close my input with this.

I know the American players represented us well, and I am proud of their performance.
I know that small pocket sizes do not hinder our players anymore than others.
I know that some people want to find problems even if there is no problem.
I know that most Americans have a poor understanding of culture and lifestyle in other countries.
I know that one can find data to support any ridiculous theory one wants to propose.

And finally, many many foreign players come to the US and do very well. They usually come for extended playing tours and have sponsors to assist them. They have nice accomodations and play in well-equipped pool rooms. Even so, they do not dominate our tournaments.

The basic point many of you are trying to make is that the U.S. Players are sub-standard in the World of Pool. Well, no matter how many 'Good Ol' Boy" lines you put up about them darn excuses, your accusation does not hold water. Patriotism has nothing to do with facts. One tournament does not make a trend. Home court advantage is not an excuse. The U.S. does not have to dominate the World to prove their high-standard of play. We will win our share of international tourneys, and we will lose our share. There is no reason to read all this other garbage into the World Tourney.

So, go ahead. Jump on the players one more time. "They should have won all them top spots. Everything stacked aginst them is just one of them darn excuses Billy Bob. Reckon they oughta work harder huh?"
 
vapoolplayer said:
again, everyone who had trouble with the equipment at the WPC has two options...........

get better

go hungry

cause i gaurantee that 16 yr old is only gonna get better as time goes on.

VAP
Click to expand...

I agree 100%! That Wu is definitely going to get better, and the rest of the Taiwanese players as well. And that means everyone else has got to stop complaining about the conditions etc. etc. and just practice to get even better!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top