The Fury Break cue

[onepocketchump]

Thank you very much for your insight, and the kind words. Much appreciated. It means a lot coming from you.

When you decided to disclose that the Instroke cases were made in Taiwan, did you receive a lot of resistance from your colleagues?

Most people could not easily associate outstanding quality to "made in Taiwan," what made you decide to take that approach?

I am wondering if it was difficult to make sure the factory in Taiwan could meet your standards especially in the long run? Did you have any problem with them meeting your deadline?

Thank you.

Richard

I never hid that the cases were made in Taiwan once they were primarily made there. Yes, I received grief from some customers over it but I was able to educate them and prove the quality. At the beginning it was tough just like all first runs are tough. But eventually they understood what I wanted in terms of quality and stepped up to learn how to produce that quality. Sometimes there were delivery issues, resulting from anything to miscommunication to natural disasters but no more or less than I experienced producing goods in several other countries.

My advice to anyone who wants to produce anything in a thrid party factory is to go there and oversee the initial production and sampling from start to finish. Nip any problems in the bud and show the factory workers what you want, exactly what you want and what you expect. You will get better products, more respect, less headaches and less BS if you do that. It is up to you to know every step of the production and the costs associated with each step so that you know what a fair price to pay for the quality level you expect is.

I also advise anyone who can afford it to have their own person permanently assigned to quality control at the factory to insure that the goods leaving the dock are, in fact, exactly as you want them. This is supremely important on many levels.

Basically though, good input gets good output. There is no reason a JossWest cannot be made in Taiwan other than they don't know how to yet.

For what it's worth, I have seen cues in Taiwan that rival SouthWest in fit, finish, and hit. Cues that could easily take a place among the best America or anywhere else has to offer. These cues are sold in Taiwan for $200-$500US. They won't sell here for that because who would pay $200-$500 for a Taiwanese plain cue? Well boys and girls, you already are paying $200-$1000 for cues that come from China and Taiwan.

I chose to have the cases made in Taiwan because there is a family there with 30 years of casemaking experience whom I believed could build the Instroke case to my specifications. Not only did they do it to my specs they improved on my design. I did not care one bit about the stereotype, I cared about the quality of the cases and I knew that no one would care if the quality was there. I was right.

People, buy a cue because you like the cue. Judge it based on it's merits and forget about the soil it was supposedly made on. Hell, buy a cue because you like they guy who made it and you want to support him before you buy a cue or don't buy a cue because of a little sticker that says "Made in X" that's all just political bullshit. The world is global now, think globally and act locally.

John

 

[X Breaker]

I never hid that the cases were made in Taiwan once they were primarily made there. Yes, I received grief from some customers over it but I was able to educate them and prove the quality. At the beginning it was tough just like all first runs are tough. But eventually they understood what I wanted in terms of quality and stepped up to learn how to produce that quality. Sometimes there were delivery issues, resulting from anything to miscommunication to natural disasters but no more or less than I experienced producing goods in several other countries.

My advice to anyone who wants to produce anything in a thrid party factory is to go there and oversee the initial production and sampling from start to finish. Nip any problems in the bud and show the factory workers what you want, exactly what you want and what you expect. You will get better products, more respect, less headaches and less BS if you do that. It is up to you to know every step of the production and the costs associated with each step so that you know what a fair price to pay for the quality level you expect is.

I also advise anyone who can afford it to have their own person permanently assigned to quality control at the factory to insure that the goods leaving the dock are, in fact, exactly as you want them. This is supremely important on many levels.

Basically though, good input gets good output. There is no reason a JossWest cannot be made in Taiwan other than they don't know how to yet.

For what it's worth, I have seen cues in Taiwan that rival SouthWest in fit, finish, and hit. Cues that could easily take a place among the best America or anywhere else has to offer. These cues are sold in Taiwan for $200-$500US. They won't sell here for that because who would pay $200-$500 for a Taiwanese plain cue? Well boys and girls, you already are paying $200-$1000 for cues that come from China and Taiwan.

I chose to have the cases made in Taiwan because there is a family there with 30 years of casemaking experience whom I believed could build the Instroke case to my specifications. Not only did they do it to my specs they improved on my design. I did not care one bit about the stereotype, I cared about the quality of the cases and I knew that no one would care if the quality was there. I was right.

People, buy a cue because you like the cue. Judge it based on it's merits and forget about the soil it was supposedly made on. Hell, buy a cue because you like they guy who made it and you want to support him before you buy a cue or don't buy a cue because of a little sticker that says "Made in X" that's all just political bullshit. The world is global now, think globally and act locally.

John

John,

That is very well stated. Thank you.

I really admire a person who would hold on to his belief regardless of negative remark and sterotype, your sucess of the Instroke proved that you were right.

I can't begin to imagine what it was like for you to go to Europe and Asia trying to find a reliable factory for your design. You had to really believe in yourself to keep doing it. I am sure there were lots of people around you who tried to tell you to just build the case in the US or try to simply discourage you.

I remember I read in your early web site that you said you wanted to thank Joe Porper, Jay Flowers, and Jack Justis (not in any particular order, and I hope I haven't forgotten anyone else)for their inspirations. A lot of people have tried and owned these cases but you were the one who came up with the idea of making your own. I also remember the colorful early version of Instroke I saw--they did not look anything like the Instroke we see now.

I think it is great that you found a reliable manufacturer in Taiwan for you. But at the same time, I can't help but notice the number of counterfeit cases and bunjee products that have flooded our market these days.

If you were to do it all over again, would you have tried to patent your bunjee design/utility model, and perhaps the design of the Instroke?

Thank you.

Richard

 

[onepocketchump]

John,

That is very well stated. Thank you.

I really admire a person who would hold on to his belief regardless of negative remark and sterotype, your sucess of the Instroke proved that you were right.

I can't begin to imagine what it was like for you to go to Europe and Asia trying to find a reliable factory for your design. You had to really believe in yourself to keep doing it. I am sure there were lots of people around you who tried to tell you to just build the case in the US or try to simply discourage you.

I remember I read in your early web site that you said you wanted to thank Joe Porper, Jay Flowers, and Jack Justis (not in any particular order, and I hope I haven't forgotten anyone else)for their inspirations. A lot of people have tried and owned these cases but you were the one who came up with the idea of making your own. I also remember the colorful early version of Instroke I saw--they did not look anything like the Instroke we see now.

I think it is great that you found a reliable manufacturer in Taiwan for you. But at the same time, I can't help but notice the number of counterfeit cases and bunjee products that have flooded our market these days.

If you were to do it all over again, would you have tried to patent your bunjee design/utility model, and perhaps the design of the Instroke?

Thank you.

Richard

Thank you. If I had to do it over again I would definitely make sure that the copyrights, trademarks, and patents were covered. I have come to understand that in this world intellectual property is definitely something valuable that the property holder must be entirely responsible for securing and policing.

It is of supreme importance to aggressively pursue ANYONE who infringes on your intellectual property rights. When you have your intellectual property properly documented then you can make life hell for those who want to make a living copying your designs. If not, then you face an uphill and shaky battle at best.

Unlike your car, there are no police to call when your ideas are stolen. EXCEPT when you take certain steps to register YOUR intellectual property correctly. Then you can stop people's shipments at the port of entry, have their warehouses raided and their businesses shut down. Unfortunately, all of this costs a fair but of money and the opponents know it. So they know when you don't hold the right cards.

So, the next time around I will definitely plan for the expense of making my intellectual property airtight.

Yeah, I miss the first Instrokes as well. Maybe they will be reincarnated, who knows, )

John

 

[BRKNRUN]

You make a very good point but like any good golfer they can use any club to get the job done. Now I know they wouldnt use a pitching wedge in place of a driver but under other conditions most good golf players can use didnt clubs for any situation. With that said any good pool player can adapt to any break cue. Some easier than others of course.

Very true that most good golfers can use pretty much any club to play good, however, you will not see a top pro teeing off without the "hot" driver in thier bag...

Top pro's not only pick a set up for a particular club, Loft, Lie, Shaft, Grip etc....After they find the set up they like, they will get multiple drivers of the exact same set up, just to find that one "hot" driver........

Yes, they can tee off with pretty much anything...but an example would be Kenny Perry. His Driver was called into scrutiney by another player...When the PGA came out with thier testing proceedures for drivers...the manufacturer was not "certain" that his driver would pass...The manufacturer took that driver from him and gave him another driver that was the same set up...He lost 25-30 yards off the tee until he got his other driver back.

A good player will be a good player no matter what cue is in his hands...but the better you get and the better competition you play you better have the break cue in your hands that performes the best for you....Especially when 1 dry rack can have a big effect on the outcome of a match.....JMO

Do you really think that the driver Tiger Woods uses can be bought in a store? ..It may look off the rack, but its not......

 

[pooltchr]

in other words, whether it helps you to fit into your peer group, whether it boosts your confidence, whether you can walk around feeling proud of your cue...etc
Richard

Richard,
If a cue performs, that's all the confidence I need. My cue doesn't give me confidence. My confidence comes from my game, and the cue is a tool toward that end.

John,
Your point about the consumer determining value is right on the money. The fact that demand far exceeded supply for a period of several months for the Fury J/B would be a pretty strong indication that a very large number of consumers consider it a very good value.

Steve

 

[poolbiz420]

My 2 Cents

Everyone makes good points here, it's said the break is the most inportant shot in pool can you put a price on that? We sat down for a month with the Fury, Sledgehammer and Stinger with three different people using them breaking and jumping. From what we came to find out is that they were all good B/J cues but the Stinger stood out from the rest. I owned a Sledge and after using the Stinger i got rid of it. The stinger has more of a "sweet" spot lets you control the ball better breaking and jumping. I have one of the hardest breaks in town (I actually shattered the tip/ferrule on the sledgehammer) and i can park whitey with the Stinger and I did not have that control with the others. We were so impressed we at the pool room became a dealer in the Stinger cues!

PM me if interested in a Stinger B/J Cue

THANKS,
BIZ

Just my .02

 

[Only ERO's]

Break/Jump

I highly recommend a Mace Break/Jump. I don't know of anybody that has been disappointed with their purchase of one. I have had mine about two years now and love it. I have had a problem with the joint, sent it to Rick and had it back within about 2 weeks with no charge.

I don't recommend a Sledgehammer at all. I knew a guy that has gone through two of them now. They always sat in a case and should have had no problems but the Butts have warped on both of them. I know Mike had him send the first in and gave him a new one. Not sure what is happening with the second. They are made overseas and are really cheap, or at least some of them.

Look into the Mace, they are spendy but well worth the money. Throw a phenolic tip on it from Ebay and it hits and jumps like a dream. Before the phenolic, I used it as a playing cue. They even play great that way.

 

[X Breaker]

Richard,
If a cue performs, that's all the confidence I need. My cue doesn't give me confidence. My confidence comes from my game, and the cue is a tool toward that end.

Steve

Steve,

Thank you for your opinion.

My point is that everyone has different needs to be satisfied. Unfortunately for us, performance is not always the one and only concern. If it was, it would be much easier for us to market our cues.

In my humble opinion, sometimes, confidence comes from recommendations from an instructor the consumer trusts. Perhaps that is part of the reasons why some companies would give cues away to instructors and players for their endorsements; some companies would pay their reps to use their cues; some would give cues to their reps to sell.

We believe in letting the quality and performance of our cues speak for themselves. I am not sure if that is the best way, we are still very new and we are learning as we go along.

Anyway, we cannot afford to give cues away the way most companies do, and we do not really want to do that. We would like to have the players buying our cues because they think we are the best, even though they could get other cues for free.

Am I too naive to believe in this? I don't know.

I really like to hear comments from people with different backgrounds because it helps me to gain better understanding of the market.

Thank you for your comment.

Richard

 

[onepocketchump]

Richard,

I believe the slogan for you should be the one that cuemaker Wayne Gunn used years ago. It went something like this; "We don't pay anyone to play with our cues. If you see anyone playing with a Gunn cue, they paid us."

John

 

[pooltchr]

Richard,
Economics probably won't allow that to happen. Most of the pro's can't survive without sponsorship. Paydays are few and far between, and usually not all that great. Take Allison for example. I'm sure she has a very nice contract with Cuetec and has no problem playing with their cue. Take that sponsorship contract away, and odds are she will be playing with whatever brand cue offers her the best contract.
I suspect most of the pros, both male and female, would shoot with whatever cue is going to put food on the table. There may be some exceptions, but certainly not the majority.

I agree with your philosophy. Let the cues stand on their quality alone. But the general public isn't that well educated, and will buy what they see on television, or what their favorite pro uses, or what the captain of their APA team tells them is "the best cue". Pro sponsorship is simply another form of marketing and advertising.
And marketing is what sells products. Whether it's a pie shaped laminated shaft, a croquet hoop deflection measuring devise, or a laser ghost ball aim trainer, or whatever else someone can come up with, if it's marketed properly, it will sell.

After a half a century on this earth, I suppose I have become a bit jaded, but you can tell me something is the latest and greatest, but if I can't see it for myself, I'm not convinced. It has to perform to my expectations when it's in my hands before I'm sold.

Steve

 

[X Breaker]

Richard,

I believe the slogan for you should be the one that cuemaker Wayne Gunn used years ago. It went something like this; "We don't pay anyone to play with our cues. If you see anyone playing with a Gunn cue, they paid us."

John

John,

You made me laugh so hard with that line! Good one!

Thanks,

Richard

 

[X Breaker]

Richard,
Economics probably won't allow that to happen. Most of the pro's can't survive without sponsorship. Paydays are few and far between, and usually not all that great. Take Allison for example. I'm sure she has a very nice contract with Cuetec and has no problem playing with their cue. Take that sponsorship contract away, and odds are she will be playing with whatever brand cue offers her the best contract.
I suspect most of the pros, both male and female, would shoot with whatever cue is going to put food on the table. There may be some exceptions, but certainly not the majority.

I agree with your philosophy. Let the cues stand on their quality alone. But the general public isn't that well educated, and will buy what they see on television, or what their favorite pro uses, or what the captain of their APA team tells them is "the best cue". Pro sponsorship is simply another form of marketing and advertising.
And marketing is what sells products. Whether it's a pie shaped laminated shaft, a croquet hoop deflection measuring devise, or a laser ghost ball aim trainer, or whatever else someone can come up with, if it's marketed properly, it will sell.

After a half a century on this earth, I suppose I have become a bit jaded, but you can tell me something is the latest and greatest, but if I can't see it for myself, I'm not convinced. It has to perform to my expectations when it's in my hands before I'm sold.

Steve

Yes, you are right. When I met Tom Simpson last month at my booth, this is basically what he told me--he believes that it is important to put the cues into the hands of the players.

For me, I am hoping if I can let a lot of people try my cues, and listen to their needs and suggestions and make improvement accordingly, may be I can offer them something that they have been looking for. It is our objective to make jump and break shots as easy and consistent to execute and control as possible.

We are now spending all our money on improving our equipment and products, and attending trade shows so players from all over the world can try our cues.

Like I said, we are very new and we are learning as we go along.

Thank you for all your valuable opinion.

Richard

 

[pooltchr]

One side note here. I do work for Sterling Gaming, however, I do NOT get paid to play with a Fury cue. I was playing with one before I went to work there.
Steve

 

[deadstroke32]

Everyone makes good points here, it's said the break is the most inportant shot in pool can you put a price on that? We sat down for a month with the Fury, Sledgehammer and Stinger with three different people using them breaking and jumping. From what we came to find out is that they were all good B/J cues but the Stinger stood out from the rest. I owned a Sledge and after using the Stinger i got rid of it. The stinger has more of a "sweet" spot lets you control the ball better breaking and jumping. I have one of the hardest breaks in town (I actually shattered the tip/ferrule on the sledgehammer) and i can park whitey with the Stinger and I did not have that control with the others. We were so impressed we at the pool room became a dealer in the Stinger cues!

PM me if interested in a Stinger B/J Cue

THANKS,
BIZ

Just my .02

I know y the stinger is the new big deal ?? Flat tip ..Not new real old trick.. Ask me an i'll tell all >>>>

 

[Poolhalljunkie]

better than a sledge in my opinion www.jericocues.net his stinger is being used by over a dozen pros