The interesting thing about Karen Corr...

mikepage

mikepage

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Karen several months ago had a 725 rating or so, and she dropped down to 712 after a few lackluster tournaments.

Now after her first three matches she is back up to 725. Even the match she lost (10-11 to Jayson Shaw) bumped up her rating because a 10-11 loss to Shaw is a high-level performance.

The other interesting thing is that as strong as she plays, Karen is a full 50 points below Siming Chen, the world top female.

In fact Siming Chen (774) plays about the same speed as world top 50 males like Skylar Woodward, Karl Boyes...

And Ga Young Kim (762) plays about Corey Deuel/Earl Strickland speed.

It sure would be nice to see some of these matchups...
 
Quick dumb question Mike that may have already been addressed. Its my understanding that your system includes both tourney matches and challenge matches. Are both types weighted the same in your system?
 
mikepage said:
Karen several months ago had a 725 rating or so, and she dropped down to 712 after a few lackluster tournaments.

Now after her first three matches she is back up to 725. Even the match she lost (10-11 to Jayson Shaw) bumped up her rating because a 10-11 loss to Shaw is a high-level performance.

The other interesting thing is that as strong as she plays, Karen is a full 50 points below Siming Chen, the world top female.

In fact Siming Chen (774) plays about the same speed as world top 50 males like Skylar Woodward, Karl Boyes...

And Ga Young Kim (762) plays about Corey Deuel/Earl Strickland speed.

It sure would be nice to see some of these matchups...
Click to expand...

But.....on paper these ratings for men and women are mostly compiled from matches where they played their own sex. The top women would be far lower if they competed with the men in the same events. Not because they are not good but because they would be facing a lot more competition that is also world class. I.e. they would lose more in early rounds.

So while I know Karen and Siming and Kelly Fisher etc....are strong players and I personally stick up for them I don't think that the FargoRatings can be used to get a true comparative rating for the top men and women at this point.

I welcome correction though Mike because you know I respect all that you do.
 
JB Cases said:
But.....on paper these ratings for men and women are mostly compiled from matches where they played their own sex. The top women would be far lower if they competed with the men in the same events. Not because they are not good but because they would be facing a lot more competition that is also world class. I.e. they would lose more in early rounds.

So while I know Karen and Siming and Kelly Fisher etc....are strong players and I personally stick up for them I don't think that the FargoRatings can be used to get a true comparative rating for the top men and women at this point.

I welcome correction though Mike because you know I respect all that you do.
Click to expand...

Agreed. Apples to oranges
 
I think Karen's number of 725 is pretty accurate at this point, but I hope she proves me wrong and bumps it up some more.

I do think, however that the top women are a little over inflated and should land more around the 750 area. I think their number would come down a little if they matched up more with the top men. JMHO.
 
JB Cases said:
But.....on paper these ratings for men and women are mostly compiled from matches where they played their own sex. The top women would be far lower if they competed with the men in the same events. Not because they are not good but because they would be facing a lot more competition that is also world class. I.e. they would lose more in early rounds.
Click to expand...

NYC Cue Dude said:
Apples to Oranges
Click to expand...

These are common misconceptions. It is an apples to apples comparison.

Players don't get more credit for winning a tournament against lesser competition than they do going two and out against stiffer competition. There are players (like Mika for example) who are still on the winner's side in this tournament but whose rating has fallen. And there are people who have gone two and out and seen a rating increase. In fact a player can establish a world-class rating playing only in local and regional tournaments in Wisconsin or whatever...

It doesn't matter that most of the top women's matches have been against other women just as it doesn't matter that most of Kai Lun Hsu's matches have been against Asians or most of Bergman's matches have been against US players.

What is important is that these groups are coupled somewhere. And they are. There are many many matches that couple Asian players to US players. And there are many many matches that couple men to women.


So while I know Karen and Siming and Kelly Fisher etc....are strong players and I personally stick up for them I don't think that the FargoRatings can be used to get a true comparative rating for the top men and women at this point.

I welcome correction though Mike because you know I respect all that you do.
Click to expand...

I don't agree. I think what happens is many women generally don't play against men. And there are well entrenched beliefs how they would fare if they did. And then in the occasional event it happens, there is a lot of

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias

going on....

In any case, the number will continue to evolve and hopefully we will see more data going in that links top women to men.
 
mikepage said:
Karen several months ago had a 725 rating or so, and she dropped down to 712 after a few lackluster tournaments.

Now after her first three matches she is back up to 725. Even the match she lost (10-11 to Jayson Shaw) bumped up her rating because a 10-11 loss to Shaw is a high-level performance.

The other interesting thing is that as strong as she plays, Karen is a full 50 points below Siming Chen, the world top female.

In fact Siming Chen (774) plays about the same speed as world top 50 males like Skylar Woodward, Karl Boyes...

And Ga Young Kim (762) plays about Corey Deuel/Earl Strickland speed.

It sure would be nice to see some of these matchups...
Click to expand...
Mike, I have a question regarding Fargo Rating's algorithm. Given the upset of Karen over Ko, wouldn't her win not only bump Karen's rating but also simultaneously bump up the ratings of the women who have owned Karen historically?

In other words, after a single match do the ratings get immediately updated for everyone?
 
jsp said:
Mike, I have a question regarding Fargo Rating's algorithm. Given the upset of Karen over Ko, wouldn't her win not only bump Karen's rating but also simultaneously bump up the ratings of the women who have owned Karen historically?

In other words, after a single match do the ratings get immediately updated for everyone?
Click to expand...


Yes, that's right. And if Karen was the ONLY link between men and women, then every woman on the planet would go up by the exact same amount Karen goes up.

But she is not the only link; there are many thousands of matches that couple men to women.
 
No one has even stated the obvious. If jayson shaw played a male that had Karens exact skill level the match would have not been so close. It's added pressure and it's tough to bring your A game. That's a pure and simple fact. Karen has zero to loose the least amount of pressure on her in the whole event. Practically a free roll. Now the males that have to play her not so much.
 
mikepage said:
Yes, that's right. And if Karen was the ONLY link between men and women, then every woman on the planet would go up by the exact same amount Karen goes up.

But she is not the only link; there are many thousands of matches that couple men to women.
Click to expand...
Thanks. Makes sense.

Another question. Does your algorithm differentiate between winner breaks and alternating breaks?
 
jsp said:
Thanks. Makes sense.

Another question. Does your algorithm differentiate between winner breaks and alternating breaks?
Click to expand...

No. It is just games. So in that sense ratings are averaged over the break issue...
 
kagewest said:
No one has even stated the obvious. If jayson shaw played a male that had Karens exact skill level the match would have not been so close. It's added pressure and it's tough to bring your A game. That's a pure and simple fact. Karen has zero to loose the least amount of pressure on her in the whole event. Practically a free roll. Now the males that have to play her not so much.
Click to expand...


Not a fact by any means, as people's minds are different due to the experiences they have had. Some people thrive under pressure, positive stress, and some do not.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
kagewest said:
No one has even stated the obvious. If jayson shaw played a male that had Karens exact skill level the match would have not been so close. It's added pressure and it's tough to bring your A game. That's a pure and simple fact. Karen has zero to loose the least amount of pressure on her in the whole event. Practically a free roll. Now the males that have to play her not so much.
Click to expand...

Right, the only female in the event, everyone saying she has no chance because no woman can compete with the top men. And then she plays the World Champion in the first round. Zero pressure.
 
kagewest said:
No one has even stated the obvious. If jayson shaw played a male that had Karens exact skill level the match would have not been so close. It's added pressure and it's tough to bring your A game. That's a pure and simple fact. Karen has zero to loose the least amount of pressure on her in the whole event. Practically a free roll. Now the males that have to play her not so much.
Click to expand...

Is it possible she feels the weight of representing half the population on the planet in this event?

This is what I mean by confirmation bias

Karen is supposed to get to about 7 against Jayson going to 11.

If if she goes to the hill (11-10) against him one day and then loses 11-4 the next day, she would be about meeting expectation. (a little above and then a little below)

But a pool fan who thinks she really doesn't play 725 speed who suffers from confirmation bias would explain away the 11-10 score (Jayson feels pressure) and then nod his or her head at the 11-4 score--'confirms what I knew all along.'
 
kagewest said:
No one has even stated the obvious. If jayson shaw played a male that had Karens exact skill level the match would have not been so close. It's added pressure and it's tough to bring your A game. That's a pure and simple fact. Karen has zero to loose the least amount of pressure on her in the whole event. Practically a free roll. Now the males that have to play her not so much.
Click to expand...

It seems every single time Corr does well in a men's event, there's someone providing reasons other than her talent. How many men's events does she need to finish high in before this gets old?
 
Jude Rosenstock said:
It seems every single time Corr does well in a men's event, there's someone providing reasons other than her talent. How many men's events does she need to finish high in before this gets old?
Click to expand...


Some guys have small wee wee complex, they can't help themselves but to try to tear her down, it is what it is.
 
Was the Ko and Karen match recorded?

I want to see it.


Skill for skill Karen is way behind Ko and a lot of other men for that matter. I imagine she was able to figure out the break in this tourny or something.




Ko is not rated 10th in the world either.
 
When Karen is on, she can beat absolutely anyone.

And i'm not talking about her opponent having an "off" day type of crap. I am talking about both players going for the jugular and shooting lights out.

She has proven that more then enough times in her career.
She at the very least deserves some respect.

Such a shame how that never happens.

Because we all know that if it was a MAN in her position who beat champions, who at any given time, could demolish anyone, but hadn't won a major yet (in the mans world of pool) you all would be talking about it being just a matter of time, putting themselves in those tourneys and positioning themselves to win, and would instantly form a fan club of groupies waiting for it to happen.

But since she is a female, no one takes her seriously.

There is something wrong with that.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top