The Power of Pool is in Numbers

[336Robin]

I see facetious threads about the Galactic Bar Table Association and we know what this is all about.

A few weeks back I put up a thread about getting a bunch of Investors for 1k a piece and doing an event.....I think I estimated I needed 150k to do it..well that thread died as many do. I was making a point. There are plenty of people here that could cough up a grand...that was not the point.

The point is the power is in numbers we don't have for many reasons. We cannot be counted together therefore we don't exist. We stand for nothing for the most part except for our opinions.

Simply we need an Association whereby we can get some skin in the game and participate in doing what we can to create New Players and we need some kind of plan to start turning things around.

I can't fathom the problems connected with Professional Pool and I'm not qualified to really expound on it other than the fact that it has no legs being there is a great disconnect between the amateur and the professional.

When I was a child growing up and playing the BCA was the tops, the Pros were Gods. Well we all know what happened there and we fell completely apart in time.

I would think that its time for something better and different I just hope that someone can come with something that motivates the people that say they love the sport to get involved.

If we all did our little something that we can do then maybe we would see things turn around a bit.

My opinion is the creation of "Pool Clubs" that happen in Pool Rooms once or twice a month like Chess Clubs and other Social Clubs and make it FUN! Don't do anything that takes away from the FUN!

Teach people that the game is Fun and more people will play and that is what my new book and subsequent books are about. Unless we get the message to the people we are toast and we are together on basically nothing so there you go.

So what is the fix? Come on let its hear it. Your version of how to fix pool and what you can personally do to help things change. Do you have the guts to get some of your personal skin in the game?

 

[BeiberLvr]

You have to start them young. The problem is that most parents aren't willing to spend the money on a pool table, and they don't want to bring their child to a pool hall.

So you have to bring it to the schools. Make it an after school activity or an elective. Schools can have teams and they could play against other schools.

Students that play on teams could earn full or partial scholarships based on their play and academic performance.

 

[Colonel]

http://billiards.about.com/od/poolb...xes-Eloquent-On-Changing-Pool-Tournaments.htm


Read this link, the only thing I can see that he left out is that it should be on big tracks only.

 

[336Robin]

Thanks for Posting.

http://billiards.about.com/od/poolb...xes-Eloquent-On-Changing-Pool-Tournaments.htm


Read this link, the only thing I can see that he left out is that it should be on big tracks only.

Colonel,
That is quite an article and there is a lot of truth in it. Maybe someone will read it and decide to take him up on his offer. I would say that now is a good time for it thats for sure. As pool players go Im sure the missing piece would be the fans. The fans needed are Pool League Players and I'm not so sure competing league systems would want to advertise an event outside of their normal system. That is another thing I think is wrong we have little support from one another. I don't see the problem myself. I would think if I were supporting a promoter that this would give people reason to dream of going pro and they would enjoy playing that much more. I guess they really dont want their people getting better some of them anyway.

You're the Colonel and you win the Chicken! Nice Post.

 

[336Robin]

School Programs Ditto!

You have to start them young. The problem is that most parents aren't willing to spend the money on a pool table, and they don't want to bring their child to a pool hall.

So you have to bring it to the schools. Make it an after school activity or an elective. Schools can have teams and they could play against other schools.

Students that play on teams could earn full or partial scholarships based on their play and academic performance.

BeiberLvr,
I agree and I think its possible to have school programs. Diamond Tables are moved around this country on racks with wheels all of the time.

I see them stored in a room at the school, wheeled out to the gym floor maybe even some lights set up and you have the bleachers right there.

If the sport were completely professional this would be a perfect place to introduce young people to Professional Pool right there where he goes to school.

The promoter pays the school system. There is no drinking, no swearing, and a dress code and the days end at a certain descent time, there is no gambling all night and pool is once again..respectable. You have to love that.

 

[Poolmanis]

Yes. Monks article is really good. One thing I want to mention is winner breaks.
I love winner breaks because it makes no lead safe and it's just unique aspect of game what other sports never have..
Winner breaks is pressure builder always.
Just my 2 cents

 

[ENGLISH!]

BeiberLvr,
I agree and I think its possible to have school programs. Diamond Tables are moved around this country on racks with wheels all of the time.

I see them stored in a room at the school, wheeled out to the gym floor maybe even some lights set up and you have the bleachers right there.

If the sport were completely professional this would be a perfect place to introduce young people to Professional Pool right there where he goes to school.

The promoter pays the school system. There is no drinking, no swearing, and a dress code and the days end at a certain descent time, there is no gambling all night and pool is once again..respectable. You have to love that.

I think most of us agree that schools are where it needs to start. Most everything but the 3 major sports are in what is called the club realm.

The wheel idea is good as most schools would not want to designate a room or two just for a pool club. But I'm sure certain tables could be modified to be the correct height on rollers such as those used to move cars but a locking mechanism would be needed. I know there are table jacks for the smaller bar boxes but leveling the table would be an issue regarding both methods. I'm sure this could be worked out in some way though.

Also the gym is a good size for exhibitions & classroom type large group instructional classes.

The 'means' minus the money are certainly there but it's getting school officials interested that I see as the problem & I think it will take a unique individual to get that going enough to even get it to inter-school league play seasons.

I hope one such individual comes along... soon. It will probably have be a big industry person or at least a collaboration with perhaps multiple partners with such an individual.

I'm thinking nationwide but perhaps it will have to start small in one city & grow from there.

Best 2 You & All,
Rick

PS My Prayer & hopes are for something to come along as the game deserves better than what is has now. Maybe that too is part of the problem. There just does not seem to be many that care more for the game than they care about themselves in the game.

 

[336Robin]

The Tables Flip out of the Racks

I think most of us agree that schools are where it needs to start. Most everything but the 3 major sports are in what is called the club realm.

The wheel idea is good as most schools would not want to designate a room or two just for a pool club. But I'm sure certain tables could be modified to be the correct height on rollers such as those used to move cars but a locking mechanism would be needed. I know there are table jacks for the smaller bar boxes but leveling the table would be an issue regarding both methods. I'm sure this could be worked out in some way though.

Also the gym is a good size for exhibitions & classroom type large group instructional classes.

The 'means' minus the money are certainly there but it's getting school officials interested that I see as the problem & I think it will take a unique individual to get that going enough to even get it to inter-school league play seasons.

I hope one such individual comes along... soon. It will probably have be a big industry person or at least a collaboration with perhaps multiple partners with such an individual.

I'm thinking nationwide but perhaps it will have to start small in one city & grow from there.

Best 2 You & All,
Rick

PS My Prayer & hopes are for something to come along as the game deserves better than what is has now. Maybe that too is part of the problem. There just does not seem to be many that care more for the game than they care about themselves in the game.

Rick,
The tables flip out of the racks to where you want the table to be. The table could have felt feet or flipped out on carpet then someone with a good quality level and some wrenches should have no problem leveling it.

Parents have money for their kids and a booster program could raise money and make a yearly payment for the tables. People loan money to school programs and were something like this to be realized I would bet the table manufacturer would line them up with someone that would. If they bought used tables that had been used in prior event I would bet they could get a deal.

I have always thought this was an incredibly great way of starting something up, with a year long lesson plan. Only one school has to have table to start with and they invite the other surrounding schools in for the competition.

Surrounding rooms might be willing to let the kids practice during the day who knows?

 

[philly]

I really can't see a local PTA or school district in favor of pool in schools on any large scale. Getting people, specifically younger people, interested in pool I feel would have to be on a more grass roots basis. There are young folks in the poolrooms every night up here in the northeast especially this time of year when the weather is not conducive to outdoor activities. Some of these younger bangers like the game enough to take it seriously. This is where mentorship comes in. We need to take the time and have patience with these folks. After all, how many of us serious players had an older player take us under their wing so to speak when we were just starting out in the game? I'll bet pretty near 100%.

 

[bdorman]

My suggestion: When someone (or a group) comes into the pool room just to have fun, challenge them to a gambling game. When they say "no thanks, we're just having fun" offer to make the bet low. When they say "no thanks, we're just having fun" call them a Nit.

Sorry, I realized we're already doing that. Never mind.

 

[bdorman]

http://billiards.about.com/od/poolb...xes-Eloquent-On-Changing-Pool-Tournaments.htm


Read this link, the only thing I can see that he left out is that it should be on big tracks only.

One recommendation is to have 1,000 players at $200 each...and another is to hold the tournaments at 12 local pool rooms around the country. How many pool rooms are there that can handle a 1000-player tournament even if it's 9-ball, race to 7, single elimination? Any?

Sorry, most of the suggestions don't pass the smell test.

 

[BRussell]

http://billiards.about.com/od/poolb...xes-Eloquent-On-Changing-Pool-Tournaments.htm


Read this link, the only thing I can see that he left out is that it should be on big tracks only.

I disagree with almost everything he says. Fiddling with the ball-in-hand and break rules - come on. That's just rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic. No way do those things really change the game to make them suddenly massive spectator sports.

And it's fantasy to say you charge a dollar for a stream and a million people will pay and you magically have a million-dollar prize fund, and a promotor who becomes "a multi-millionaire who controls the industry." Absolute fantasy. There are already several different regional tours, and I doubt they're making any profit at all.

 

[ENGLISH!]

Rick,
The tables flip out of the racks to where you want the table to be. The table could have felt feet or flipped out on carpet then someone with a good quality level and some wrenches should have no problem leveling it.

Parents have money for their kids and a booster program could raise money and make a yearly payment for the tables. People loan money to school programs and were something like this to be realized I would bet the table manufacturer would line them up with someone that would. If they bought used tables that had been used in prior event I would bet they could get a deal.

I have always thought this was an incredibly great way of starting something up, with a year long lesson plan. Only one school has to have table to start with and they invite the other surrounding schools in for the competition.

Surrounding rooms might be willing to let the kids practice during the day who knows?

Rob,

Yeah,

I was not really talking about the transportation of tables. But, to move them from room to room being on their sides would probably be beneficial as most 'double doors' in schools still have that post down the middle.

As I said, I think the means are there but for the money & then the interest by the schools' administrators.

Starting small is still a start.

The bowling alleys contributed to the high school bowling clubs. The only drawback may be the Alcohol at many halls.

Where there is a will there is way.

I hope it gets off the ground & builds momentum quickly.

Best 2 You & All,
Rick
'

 

[Colonel]

One recommendation is to have 1,000 players at $200 each...and another is to hold the tournaments at 12 local pool rooms around the country. How many pool rooms are there that can handle a 1000-player tournament even if it's 9-ball, race to 7, single elimination? Any?



Sorry, most of the suggestions don't pass the smell test.

Your basing that opinion on what? Actually while the article does mention 12 halls if you read it it actually states 12 locations prior to that. I agree there are few halls that accommodate anything of that size but a location could be rented that could. I believe Monks expectation of 1000 player fields may be optimistic but the general layout of format does work. Single elimination, shorter races, winner breaks, & getting rid of ball in hand anywhere on the table are viable ideas. The reality is any viable idea is better than what's happening now.

I disagree with almost everything he says. Fiddling with the ball-in-hand and break rules - come on. That's just rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic. No way do those things really change the game to make them suddenly massive spectator sports.



And it's fantasy to say you charge a dollar for a stream and a million people will pay and you magically have a million-dollar prize fund, and a promotor who becomes "a multi-millionaire who controls the industry." Absolute fantasy. There are already several different regional tours, and I doubt they're making any profit at all.

How is anyone fiddling with the break? Alternate break is fiddling with the break, not winner breaks. Up until not very long ago pool was a game where it's your inning until you miss, foul or play a safety, it was always winner breaks & should be. Before Texas Express came to pass ball in hand on a foul was also from the kitchen as he suggests here, not anywhere on the table & it's a good suggestion. You're entitled to your opinion as everyone is but you're acting as if these 2 suggestions are some kind of sacrilegious desecration of something that has existed forever. In fact BIH from anywhere & alternate breaks desecrated rules & a manner of playing the game that had existed forever, it would just be returning it to what it ALWAYS was before. As far as his ideas being "pure fantasy" as you call it, I like to think of it as speculation, the same as I think about your perceived doubts. As I stated above in the post addressing bdorman, they are viable ideas. Anything is surely better than what we have now. Perhaps you could regale us with your plan that is so much better than what the Monk presents in that article. What's that? I didn't quite hear you? That's what I thought, you don't have one.

 

[one stroke]

One recommendation is to have 1,000 players at $200 each...and another is to hold the tournaments at 12 local pool rooms around the country. How many pool rooms are there that can handle a 1000-player tournament even if it's 9-ball, race to 7, single elimination? Any?

Sorry, most of the suggestions don't pass the smell test.

The only thing missing is Once Upon a Time ...........

First he says no ball in hand because it makes the game to easy , then he says don't tighten the pockets to make it harder ,,

The only thing that has a chance of a million watching a stream is Pacmans next fight pool will never get anywhere near 1 million stream watchers ,, it's never even done that on free tv ,,

Most of what he's says is pipe dream at best

1

 

[BRussell]

How is anyone fiddling with the break? Alternate break is fiddling with the break, not winner breaks. Up until not very long ago pool was a game where it's your inning until you miss, foul or play a safety, it was always winner breaks & should be. Before Texas Express came to pass ball in hand on a foul was also from the kitchen as he suggests here, not anywhere on the table & it's a good suggestion. You're entitled to your opinion as everyone is but you're acting as if these 2 suggestions are some kind of sacrilegious desecration of something that has existed forever. In fact BIH from anywhere & alternate breaks desecrated rules & a manner of playing the game that had existed forever, it would just be returning it to what it ALWAYS was before.

By "fiddling" with the break rules & the foul rules I mean any change to those rules that someone thinks is going to make pool a multi-million dollar enterprise. Which rules came first is utterly irrelevant.

As far as his ideas being "pure fantasy" as you call it, I like to think of it as speculation, the same as I think about your perceived doubts. As I stated above in the post addressing bdorman, they are viable ideas. Anything is surely better than what we have now. Perhaps you could regale us with your plan that is so much better than what the Monk presents in that article. What's that? I didn't quite hear you? That's what I thought, you don't have one.

I like how you asked me a question, answered it for me, and then criticized "my" answer.

In fact, I think part of our problem in US pool is the belief that there is some magical plan that will make pool an overnight success. Usually these plans mention "millions of dollars" somewhere along the line. My plan is to support the good promoters and tour directors like Mark/Ozzy, Tony Robles, Oscar Dominguez, and Joe Tucker, who are trying to run self-sustianing tours and events that encourage amateur involvement.

 

[336Robin]

By "fiddling" with the break rules & the foul rules I mean any change to those rules that someone thinks is going to make pool a multi-million dollar enterprise. Which rules came first is utterly irrelevant.

I like how you asked me a question, answered it for me, and then criticized "my" answer.

In fact, I think part of our problem in US pool is the belief that there is some magical plan that will make pool an overnight success. Usually these plans mention "millions of dollars" somewhere along the line. My plan is to support the good promoters and tour directors like Mark/Ozzy, Tony Robles, Oscar Dominguez, and Joe Tucker, who are trying to run self-sustianing tours and events that encourage amateur involvement.

I have to agree with you 150%. We should support the people who are trying to do something good for pool. If we all did the little bit that we could I have to think that's enough to make a difference. I believe that if we are thinking right and doing right that good things will come from it because Karma is something you make. I firmly believe in it. Good Post!

 

[Colonel]

By "fiddling" with the break rules & the foul rules I mean any change to those rules that someone thinks is going to make pool a multi-million dollar enterprise. Which rules came first is utterly irrelevant.

I like how you asked me a question, answered it for me, and then criticized "my" answer.

In fact, I think part of our problem in US pool is the belief that there is some magical plan that will make pool an overnight success. Usually these plans mention "millions of dollars" somewhere along the line. My plan is to support the good promoters and tour directors like Mark/Ozzy, Tony Robles, Oscar Dominguez, and Joe Tucker, who are trying to run self-sustianing tours and events that encourage amateur involvement.

I would have to agree with you that unless pool finds an independently wealthy benefactor that nothing is going to turn it into a multi million dollar enterprise "overnight". I don't know if the Monks ideas would change anything either, but they're new ideas to try to spur an interest & anything like that is better than what we have currently.

As far as supporting those that currently promote the game, that's great but there are limitations. The "tours" that some run are regional only & that's limiting. While they have great exposure in the "region" they're in that's all they have, the promoter scrapes by eeking out a living doing something they love, a few players from that region do alright $ wise but the rest of the amateur involvement is dead money. I like a lot of what CSI has done but abhor the whole bar box idea they seem to want to explore now.

Truth is nobody in pool does much for pool. Everyone says the league players are key but the APA has been around for quite sometime & the only people making anything off of that is the APA. Others like TAP, Mike Siegel & others are just APA clones with no real interest other than to try the "all for us, none for the sport" model that the APA has exploited & carve out a piece of their action. What's the answer? Who knows? It has always been the same thing, lack of any sponsorship with any real financial amplitude that could make a difference. Those in the biz won't do it, Simonis over 300 years in business yet they contribute very little. Brunswick has abandoned the sport leaving Diamond to take over the table market. Predator, OB, Mezz while they contribute some actually resemble Simonis as they contribute minimally. So if those whose business IS the sport can't or won't contribute more, then what other business will that is not billiard related will? None if there isn't a market to be had for their contribution. So what's the answer?

I believe there is something that could popularize this sport, even to those who don't care to play it, that's gambling. The one thing many love to point to as the problem that has always held this sport in the shadows is the one thing that could probably save it. Sanctioned, taxed gambling. Giving people an opportunity to wager on the outcome of events. To develop a bond with certain players that they wager on letting them take an interest in that player & this game, something to cheer for as they wager on it. With the advent of lotteries, poker, casinos & all things gambling it's hard to deny the love for it here. People love to gamble, it's just a fact. I think that's pools only shot.

 

[MitchAlsup]

I believe there is something that could popularize this sport, even to those who don't care to play it, that's gambling. <snip> With the advent of lotteries, poker, casinos & all things gambling it's hard to deny the love for it here. People love to gamble, it's just a fact. I think that's pools only shot.

I, respectfully, disagree. While you state that "people love gambling" you forgot to mention that less than 20% of people actually gamble. This reduces the pool (sic) of people you are trying to attract .....

 

[336Robin]

You said a lot in your Post

I would have to agree with you that unless pool finds an independently wealthy benefactor that nothing is going to turn it into a multi million dollar enterprise "overnight". I don't know if the Monks ideas would change anything either, but they're new ideas to try to spur an interest & anything like that is better than what we have currently.

As far as supporting those that currently promote the game, that's great but there are limitations. The "tours" that some run are regional only & that's limiting. While they have great exposure in the "region" they're in that's all they have, the promoter scrapes by eeking out a living doing something they love, a few players from that region do alright $ wise but the rest of the amateur involvement is dead money. I like a lot of what CSI has done but abhor the whole bar box idea they seem to want to explore now.

Truth is nobody in pool does much for pool. Everyone says the league players are key but the APA has been around for quite sometime & the only people making anything off of that is the APA. Others like TAP, Mike Siegel & others are just APA clones with no real interest other than to try the "all for us, none for the sport" model that the APA has exploited & carve out a piece of their action. What's the answer? Who knows? It has always been the same thing, lack of any sponsorship with any real financial amplitude that could make a difference. Those in the biz won't do it, Simonis over 300 years in business yet they contribute very little. Brunswick has abandoned the sport leaving Diamond to take over the table market. Predator, OB, Mezz while they contribute some actually resemble Simonis as they contribute minimally. So if those whose business IS the sport can't or won't contribute more, then what other business will that is not billiard related will? None if there isn't a market to be had for their contribution. So what's the answer?

I believe there is something that could popularize this sport, even to those who don't care to play it, that's gambling. The one thing many love to point to as the problem that has always held this sport in the shadows is the one thing that could probably save it. Sanctioned, taxed gambling. Giving people an opportunity to wager on the outcome of events. To develop a bond with certain players that they wager on letting them take an interest in that player & this game, something to cheer for as they wager on it. With the advent of lotteries, poker, casinos & all things gambling it's hard to deny the love for it here. People love to gamble, it's just a fact. I think that's pools only shot.

Colonel,
You said a lot in your post a great deal of it reality and truth but when you got to the part about the gambling I had to wince up a little. Yeah we've been there and sure it might be some sort of band aid but is it worth it. I like a path of a different kind. The one thing we aren't doing is creating players and that's burned a hole in my mind for a long time.
I came back to pool in 2005 this time. Ive played and quit a time or two when all it became was playing for money. Its rented money and no one seems to own it so what good is it? But its action that is no doubt but its not the kind of action that promotes parents wanting their children to learn, to have it in a school system or anything else like if for that matter.
Listening to you two guys banter back and forth made me think about what I was doing and some of the things I was trying to put in place to make my book move. When I came back to pool I also joined Az. I saw the aiming wars flame up and took part in them so I started working on finding out how I did what I did and that led to a book, then another book and there will be 2 more up and coming but the aiming part and the book parts on how good they are aren't the point.

I can sell them to some people, then I can use the money to go out to eat or play a tournament or buy a cue case etc. You get the idea. What is to really gain in that, selling books don't get you anywhere if youre trying to.

Some of us are passionate about our lives and how Pool has shaped them. How good some of the good times were and how much we would love to have some of those back.

Others are in pool for what they can get and that's it. To each his own. I just retired and I have enough money to live on. I work for myself now doing Lawn Care for a large company and its part time and I have pool my books on it and I like it because it keeps my mind active.

I think I have found my mission and I outline it on my website I just added the information to my web page on how I intended to use my material to create New players.

Please read it and tell me if it sounds do able. I sure would like to think it is. I don't care about the whole aiming wars thing. I just want to do something that is worthwhile and means something.