The reasons why there is no money in pool.

bigshooter

bigshooter

<--vs Chuck Norris on TAR
Silver Member
I'll start...

1. Pool is played in noisy, sometimes smokey venues and usually with an abundance of alcohol flowing. No one in their right mind encourages young people to get involved with it.

2. Tournament players frequently have to wonder if they will actually get paid.

3. Many players would rather beat a novices brains in for a $20.00 bill than actually encourage and help them.

4. Pool has a hard time shaking its image of dimly lit pool halls full of sharks and criminals.

5. Sponsors (other than billiard companies) want nothing to do with it mainly due to the aforementioned reasons.

6. When an organization actually does a good job in getting new blood into the sport such as APA; established players do nothing but whine,complain and mock and have a mentality of 'we are real players... they are bangers'

7. No one seems to be able to form one main professional organization that promotes the sport. When you think of golf PGA springs to mind immediately, not so in pool.

8. The game changes constantly... 7 ball, 8 ball, 9 ball, 10 ball, bonus ball... etc. on and on. If you tune into nearly any other sport you know what you are going to get. A consistent game with consistent rules.

In short; we don't need another pool movie, we need pool players to get their sh*t together.
 
No money in pool

Well said, sir (above). One of the reasons I never had the full passion to go pro was precisely for your stated reasons. Oh, how I wish I had taken up golf instead! Anyway, enough complaining.

My opinion on one thing however, is the game HAS to change in order for it to be accepted. Bonus ball is a step in the right direction. Who knows, perhaps this is the REAL change needed to get pool out of the basements and into the mainstream.
 
The future growth of pool relies on a changing of the guard, so to speak. The old days of pool are gone but for some reason their are those that want those days to linger on.

Personally, I have no experience with the old days of pool. The hustling, the gambling, the road players and so on. I have no nostalgia for this time in pool.


What I do know is that those ideas of how pool was have to die.

I've referred to myself as a New Age player because I only got back into the playing about 5 years ago and never kept up with the happenings of the pool world before I started playing again.

A New Age player is someone that is just starting to play. This is anyone at any point in their life. They have no past history of pool to draw upon, only what they see currently.

As New Age player, I do not want to be a part of a sport that encourages bad behavior, no class, no professional standards, throwing games, sharking, places that are unsuitable for families, kids or seniors plus those mentioned in the other sport.

Room owners are part of the solution as well. It is these people that are the faces of pool to the public. They are the ambassadors of the sport as well as the pros and the billiards industry.

Until all the parts of the pool world see that they must work together to grow pool, pool will always be considered a second rate sport.
 
I agree with much of what you've written EXCEPT that sponsors/advertisers really don't care about how seedy or disreputable an activity is. All they care about is how many people are watching it.

Their attitude is that viewers will decide what to watch and why to watch or not watch; the advertiser/sponsor does not impose its values or beliefs.
 
bigshooter said:
I'll start...

1. Pool is played in noisy, sometimes smokey venues and usually with an abundance of alcohol flowing. No one in their right mind encourages young people to get involved with it.

2. Tournament players frequently have to wonder if they will actually get paid.

3. Many players would rather beat a novices brains in for a $20.00 bill than actually encourage and help them.

4. Pool has a hard time shaking its image of dimly lit pool halls full of sharks and criminals.

5. Sponsors (other than billiard companies) want nothing to do with it mainly due to the aforementioned reasons.

6. When an organization actually does a good job in getting new blood into the sport such as APA; established players do nothing but whine,complain and mock and have a mentality of 'we are real players... they are bangers'

7. No one seems to be able to form one main professional organization that promotes the sport. When you think of golf PGA springs to mind immediately, not so in pool.

8. The game changes constantly... 7 ball, 8 ball, 9 ball, 10 ball, bonus ball... etc. on and on. If you tune into nearly any other sport you know what you are going to get. A consistent game with consistent rules.

In short; we don't need another pool movie, we need pool players to get their sh*t together.
Click to expand...

Every walk of life has it's good and bad characters (perceived of course). The only thing pool needs is more players.

I challenge AZB members to do something about it. What you ask? Teach every player that will listen. Give them as much help as you have time to give. If they ask to pay you for your efforts, tell them to pay it forward by helping another player learn what you taught them. Do it long enough and you will see a change in pool.

And before every instructor for hire comes at me with all their fury...think about it. The people who are willing to pay for your services will continue to pay for your services. The people we will be teaching are not at a level where they are even potential customers....since most of ya'll charge $50 an hour and higher. It just isn't that important to them. So if they gain a little help from someone like those here on AZB then they might become a serious prospect for paid instruction once the game means more to them.

Think about the math. Say 2000 people browse AZB in a day. Cut that in half for a conservative guess for those who are good enough to teach what they know. Now 1000 teachers teach 2 people a month. Now we are at 3000. That 3000 teach 2 next month. Now we are at 9000. And so on and so on. If I did my math right that would be 458,541,000 people taught more about pool in 12 months. Now let's say only 1% take it up seriously. That is 4,585,410 serious players

This is real! It could happen! Probably not to the grandiose levels described but it would mean more serious players than we have today. More players = more action, more sponsors, and more money. All this for what? 2 students a month!

Just my $.02

Ken

p.s. I spent 10 hours Friday and Saturday showing things to a guy I just met. He was very attentive and willing to listen. I could have kept going all night if it weren't for real life and such! He gained some knowledge and I gained a friend to practice with :)
 
bigshooter said:
I'll start...
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3. Many players would rather beat a novices brains in for a $20.00 bill than actually encourage and help them.

4. Pool has a hard time shaking its image of dimly lit pool halls full of sharks and criminals.
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Click to expand...

Yep.

I have no knowledge of the cultural history of snooker (although I have become an avid fan in recent years). Did it not suffer similar problems? If so, how did they manage to overcome?
 
Some good points

bigshooter said:
I'll start...

1. Pool is played in noisy, sometimes smokey venues and usually with an abundance of alcohol flowing. No one in their right mind encourages young people to get involved with it. Would make sense to develope a high school / college billard program with no cash value since they would be considered amatuers. Follow the golf programs for schools.[/I]

2. Tournament players frequently have to wonder if they will actually get paid. Until there is an association that governs all sanctioned tournaments, there will always be that risk.

3. Many players would rather beat a novices brains in for a $20.00 bill than actually encourage and help them. Difficult to change that mentalaty that has been around for 50 years.

4. Pool has a hard time shaking its image of dimly lit pool halls full of sharks and criminals. You are right, but it can be changed with great planning, doers not talkers and risk.

5. Sponsors (other than billiard companies) want nothing to do with it mainly due to the aforementioned reasons.We know the problem, lets start a thread with the solutions.

6. When an organization actually does a good job in getting new blood into the sport such as APA; established players do nothing but whine,complain and mock and have a mentality of 'we are real players... they are bangers'

7. No one seems to be able to form one main professional organization that promotes the sport. When you think of golf PGA springs to mind immediately, not so in pool. Might have a way to make that happen....working on it.

8. The game changes constantly... 7 ball, 8 ball, 9 ball, 10 ball, bonus ball... etc. on and on. If you tune into nearly any other sport you know what you are going to get. A consistent game with consistent rules. I agree, 1 game with 1 set or rules and 1 real pro tour.

In short; we don't need another pool movie, we need pool players to get their sh*t together.
Click to expand...


See my response above.
 
bdorman said:
I agree with much of what you've written EXCEPT that sponsors/advertisers really don't care about how seedy or disreputable an activity is. All they care about is how many people are watching it.

Their attitude is that viewers will decide what to watch and why to watch or not watch; the advertiser/sponsor does not impose its values or beliefs.
Click to expand...

I sort of touched on this a bit in another thread, and I have to disagree.

I think if what you're saying was true, then Lance Armstrong wouldn't have been dropped by all of his sponsors.

Big companies don't want to risk backing the "bad" guy if there's a chance he could tarnish their brand name.
 
Exactly..

This is the point I was trying to make in the other thread.. There's no future in pocket billiards.. And it's not about "shaking it's image," cause the "image" is reality.. The reputation is well deserved, in other words..

I love to play pool, but I would certainly, INTENTLY. not allow any of my children to explore that lifestyle, if I had any children..
 
The biggest problem with pool is that many players make a better living by dumping games than they do by winning them. I've heard many players say that a stakehorse is the same as a sponsor or an agent. Not so at all. A sponsor provides support in exchange for exposure and an agent only makes money when he or she gets sponsors to sign on. A stakehorse on the other hand makes money as a direct result of the money made by the player.

It's not the players that are the problem. It's the money-men behind them.
 
PoolHallStuff said:
The biggest problem with pool is that many players make a better living by dumping games than they do by winning them. I've heard many players say that a stakehorse is the same as a sponsor or an agent. Not so at all. A sponsor provides support in exchange for exposure and an agent only makes money when he or she gets sponsors to sign on. A stakehorse on the other hand makes money as a direct result of the money made by the player.

It's not the players that are the problem. It's the money-men behind them.
Click to expand...

I'm sorry, but I disagree.. The players are the biggest obstacle.. In many ways, including dumping.. BUT MORE IMPORTANTLY, IMO, is the way players tend to conduct business.. None of them want to invest any of their $$$ in the future of pool, they don't hire agents, and they expect things to be done for them "on the jelly roll," which is not how the real world works..

They've never hired a PR guy to promote their sport, cause once again, they want to work off the jelly roll, while real professionals in the real world want to get paid for their services.. It's the players..
 
boogeyman said:
Well said, sir (above). One of the reasons I never had the full passion to go pro was precisely for your stated reasons. Oh, how I wish I had taken up golf instead! Anyway, enough complaining.

My opinion on one thing however, is the game HAS to change in order for it to be accepted. Bonus ball is a step in the right direction. Who knows, perhaps this is the REAL change needed to get pool out of the basements and into the mainstream.
Click to expand...

Your positive attitude deserves some green!

Roger
 
need to get a BIG promoter like Trump behind the game

):smile::cool:Need to get a BIG promoter like Trump behind the game
 
Teddydog said:
This is the point I was trying to make in the other thread.. There's no future in pocket billiards.. And it's not about "shaking it's image," cause the "image" is reality.. The reputation is well deserved, in other words..

I love to play pool, but I would certainly, INTENTLY. not allow any of my children to explore that lifestyle, if I had any children..
Click to expand...

I was going to go on a rant but made something to eat sooooo just mini rant-ish. How about flipping expectations sure pool and billiards has had a checkered pass, why not move past that and focus on the next generation.

Yes get kids involved encourage kids to explore the pool life-style but not of old but of new times of honesty, respect, good sportsmanship, etc. but hey that's just my 2 cents
 
BeiberLvr said:
I think if what you're saying was true, then Lance Armstrong wouldn't have been dropped by all of his sponsors.

.
Click to expand...

His sponsors dropped him because he's not going to have followers anymore. If people said "we don't care about steroid use and are going to continue following Lance"...he'd still have the sponsors.

There are plenty of advertisers on all the "Poker" shows. 30 years ago people looked down on gambling but they don't anymore. Vegas does a huge book on the Masters golf tournament but that doesn't scare away the sponsors.
 
Maybe a better question is "why is there so much money in english snooker"

Until the image in american pool is changed we are left with what we have.

One thing that would help on all internet matches would be a dress code.

On televised matches pool players dress very well.

John
 
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