the ring finger

wigglybridge

wigglybridge

14.1 straight pool!
Silver Member
a few weeks ago i got Phil Capelle's latest (and in my opinion, greatest) book & DVD: Break Shot Patterns. for straight pool players, the DVD alone is like eating desert for 2 hours and 15 minutes: watching great player after great player execute the final 4 balls of a variety of ingenious patterns leading to the perfect break ball; 110 runouts in all.

one thing i was reminded of right away by this is the way Mike Sigel tucks his ring finger under in his closed bridge, and more often than not, he wiggles it, not just in pre-shot, but even While shooting!

then tonight, i was watching the DVD for the umpteenth time, and realized that not just Mike, EVERY player on the DVD does Something quirky with his ring finger. it might be subtle or only very occasional for some of them; for others, it's very consistent. but after a lot of reflection, i can't think of a single pro pool player over my lifetime that doesn't do something a little strange with it, even in the open bridge sometimes, too. it doesn't seem to have anything to do with bridge height or amount of top or draw or anything else i can see.

in the closed bridge, all of them at some point or other tuck it under, at the very least.

now, i'm the sort of person who doesn't believe these things happen by accident.

do any of you experts know why virtually 100% of the top players have this habit?
 
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wigglybridge said:
a few weeks ago i got Phil Capelle's latest (and in my opinion, greatest) book & DVD: Break Shot Patterns. for straight pool players, the DVD alone is like eating desert for 2 hours and 15 minutes: watching great player after great player execute the final 4 balls of a variety of ingenious patterns leading to the perfect break ball; 110 runouts in all.

one thing i was reminded of right away by this is the way Mike Sigel tucks his ring finger under in his closed bridge, and more often than not, he wiggles it, not just in pre-shot, but even While shooting!

then tonight, i was watching the DVD for the umpteenth time, and realized that not just Mike, EVERY player on the DVD does Something quirky with his ring finger. it might be subtle or only very occasional for some of them; for others, it's very consistent. but after a lot of reflection, i can't think of a single pro pool player over my lifetime that doesn't do something a little strange with it, even in the open bridge sometimes, too. it doesn't seem to have anything to do with bridge height or amount of top or draw or anything else i can see.

in the closed bridge, all of them at some point or other tuck it under, at the very least.

now, i'm the sort of person who doesn't believe these things happen by accident.

do any of you experts know why virtually 100% of the top players have this habit?
Click to expand...

Hi Bob,

I'm working my way through Phil's book and DVD as well, and I think it's the greatest thing! In addition to analyzing the patterns, there's a gold mine in watching the pros play. Phil recognizes that as he points out particular things to watch as you observe that pro playing. It's truly great stuff and you don't even have to be a 14.1 player to appreciate it.

About the ring finger, I think you're right that it's not a coincidence. I think it has to do with the pressure points of a bridge. They are the outside of the palm, the third finger and the pinkey. That leaves the ring finger flexible. I think some players move it as their waggle in getting set, others move it just because they can, and others will try to stabilize it by tucking it under.
 
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Bob:

Fran nailed it on the head with her answer (shout-out to Fran!). I just navigated over here, based on the referral in your cross-post in the 14.1 forum, so I'll cross-post my answer from the 14.1 forum here as well:

sfleinen said:
Folks:

Although I'm no Mike Sigel, I do this, too. I use the same "index-finger-pressing-on-top-of-middle-finger" closed bridge (sometimes called the Filipino bridge). Very, very often, I'm not only folding/tucking my ring finger under the palm of my hand, but I'm also very lightly touching or tapping the ring finger's nail against the cloth.

This is actually an outcropping (a symptom, if you will) of something else that is more important -- i.e. reminding yourself that you are supporting your bridge with the tripod formed by the heel of the hand, the middle finger, and the pinkie. I do this -- fold/tuck/tap the ring finger -- to "remind" myself that, other than the heel of the hand, the only fingers that should be supporting the outermost periphery of the bridge -- the outer two legs of the tripod -- are the middle and pinkie fingers. I'm making sure that of the available fingers to support the bridge, only the two fingers that are farthest apart (the middle and pinkie fingers) are used for the widest-possible "stance" of the bridge. Obviously, the wider the "stance" in the tripod, the more stable it is, so of the three available fingers to be used for those two legs, you want to make sure the weight/pressure is place on the two fingers that are farthest apart. You'll also see that these players "squash down" upon the middle and pinkie fingers to such a degree, that you may see these two fingers' tips bent backwards against the cloth.

And no, distributing the weight/pressure evenly amongst those three available fingers doesn't work in real practice -- that ring finger tends to "steal" some of the support and stability that would normally occur from anchoring upon the other two fingers that are widest apart.

I hope that helps explain it!
-Sean
Click to expand...

-Sean
 
I spent 30 minutes last night, trying to get my fingers to do that "Philippino" bridge, before stopping. For the life of me, I cannot get the index finger to rest on top of my middle finger in any sort of natural position. I am familiar with what it should loop like, from many different photo's and illustrations. I just can't make my fingers do it, it seems.

Perhaps this is best accomplished with a smaller shaft? I have a pro-taper g-core shaft with a 13mm tip. I don't think that i have particularly small hands.... though not huge either. Just over 9" from pinky tip to thumb tip, fully stretched out.

I seemed to be able to get my ring finger to tuck under, when I could get the other fingers to cooperate.

Suggestions? I will try again, realizing that you can't ever learn anything in 30 minutes worth of attempts.
Thanks
 
Is there something wrong with your natural bridge?




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk.
 
Tony_in_MD said:
Is there something wrong with your natural bridge?




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk.
Click to expand...

I'm quite sure there is likely something "wrong" with most aspects of my game. :p

I was reading the thread, and the discussion about this bridge, and the tripod, and everything else, and I compared this to what I'm doing. So I decided to try it.

I know my bridge isn't as stable as those here describe. I also tend to use an open bridge more often than not, which annoys a couple of my far more experienced and skilled friends.

In short, I try to do what I can based on what I learn here, as I won't be in a position to take a professional lesson any time in the foreseeable future.
 
justadub said:
I spent 30 minutes last night, trying to get my fingers to do that "Philippino" bridge, before stopping. For the life of me, I cannot get the index finger to rest on top of my middle finger in any sort of natural position. I am familiar with what it should loop like, from many different photo's and illustrations. I just can't make my fingers do it, it seems.

Perhaps this is best accomplished with a smaller shaft? I have a pro-taper g-core shaft with a 13mm tip. I don't think that i have particularly small hands.... though not huge either. Just over 9" from pinky tip to thumb tip, fully stretched out.

I seemed to be able to get my ring finger to tuck under, when I could get the other fingers to cooperate.

Suggestions? I will try again, realizing that you can't ever learn anything in 30 minutes worth of attempts.
Thanks
Click to expand...

What is a Filipino bridge?
 
FranCrimi said:
Hi Bob,

I'm working my way through Phil's book and DVD as well, and I think it's the greatest thing! In addition to analyzing the patterns, there's a gold mine in watching the pros play. Phil recognizes that as he points out particular things to watch as you observe that pro playing. It's truly great stuff and you don't even have to be a 14.1 player to appreciate it.

About the ring finger, I think you're right that it's not a coincidence. I think it has to do with the pressure points of a bridge. They are the outside of the palm, the third finger and the pinkey. That leaves the ring finger flexible. I think some players move it as their waggle in getting set, others move it just because they can, and others will try to stabilize it by tucking it under.
Click to expand...
My rear foot taps the floor when I'm in rhythm, which is rare.

I think its just a quirk. Sometimes quirks help esspecially if it helps your timing and rhythm. Call it PSR if you will.
 
justadub said:
Just using Sean's terminology from his post 4 above yours in this thread. In his response to your post, actually. :p
Click to expand...

OK Thanks. I see it now. That bridge has been around for a long time. Ray Martin taught it to me in the mid 1980s. I don't know where it originated. I tried it for awhile but I didn't like it and I don't use it today. You form a triangle with your second finger by pressing it fairly hard into your third. You wind up bending your third finger from the pressure. I found it uncomfortable.
 
FranCrimi said:
OK Thanks. I see it now. That bridge has been around for a long time. Ray Martin taught it to me in the mid 1980s. I don't know where it originated. I tried it for awhile but I didn't like it and I don't use it today. You form a triangle with your second finger by pressing it fairly hard into your third. You wind up bending your third finger from the pressure. I found it uncomfortable.
Click to expand...

Fran:

You are correct -- both Mike Sigel and Steve Mizerak used this bridge long before the "Filipino invasion." There are certainly old pictures of both using this bridge dating back to the 1970s and earlier.

However, everytime I describe this bridge, using the description "index-finger-pressing-on-top-of-middle-finger" type closed bridge, I usually get corrected with, "oh, you mean the 'Filipino' bridge?" I got tired of correcting people long ago (i.e. reminding them with vintage pics of Mike S. and the Miz). There's just too many people using this "Filipino bridge" description; it was like standing on an anthill and swatting the ants as they climb up and bite your legs (a losing battle).

When I first tried this bridge, I felt the discomfort you're describing. It took a while of "just using it" (in practice) until it just didn't hurt anymore. It's like the snooker stance -- some folks complain about the pain in the straightened/locked leg's calf and thigh muscles (the leg on the same side of your body as your grip hand), but like everything else, as you use it, the body adapts, and it becomes comfortable and second nature.

Now, I don't even think about it -- it's just part of my form.
-Sean
 
okay, i have some very interesting results to report here.

last night, i played one of the best players in the room i go to. this guy is by any measure a waaaaaay better player than i am. even though he mostly plays 9-ball and 10-ball these days, he remembers 14.1 from his early days, and he's enjoyed getting back into it from my obsession with it.

our previous games had him beating me by 100:48, 100:52, and 100:66, and he wasn't even trying.

our first game last night he Barely got by me 100:96, and i got every bad roll you could Possibly imagine and then some; this isn't just whining: literally i'd blast open the rack on the break and get Glued to an object ball with no shot and no other balls touching. i played Hugely over my level, and i was ecstatic.

he asked me if we could play another. which i Won 100:79.

the only difference: i tucked my ring finger under.

hey, i'm not claiming anything; i'm just reporting the data.
 
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sfleinen said:
Fran:

You are correct -- both Mike Sigel and Steve Mizerak used this bridge long before the "Filipino invasion." There are certainly old pictures of both using this bridge dating back to the 1970s and earlier.

However, everytime I describe this bridge, using the description "index-finger-pressing-on-top-of-middle-finger" type closed bridge, I usually get corrected with, "oh, you mean the 'Filipino' bridge?" I got tired of correcting people long ago (i.e. reminding them with vintage pics of Mike S. and the Miz). There's just too many people using this "Filipino bridge" description; it was like standing on an anthill and swatting the ants as they climb up and bite your legs (a losing battle).

When I first tried this bridge, I felt the discomfort you're describing. It took a while of "just using it" (in practice) until it just didn't hurt anymore. It's like the snooker stance -- some folks complain about the pain in the straightened/locked leg's calf and thigh muscles (the leg on the same side of your body as your grip hand), but like everything else, as you use it, the body adapts, and it becomes comfortable and second nature.

Now, I don't even think about it -- it's just part of my form.
-Sean
Click to expand...

Yep. I think it originated on the East Coast during the 14.1 era. California players actually did the opposite with their big loop with plenty of air. But they were playing 9 ball.

I copied Loree Jon's bridge and never looked back. It was a perfect fit for me. Her loop was very unique and it made perfect sense to me. It was a relaxed loop but it leaned forward against the cue stick. To me, it's the best of both worlds: Soft hold, yet the lean forward keeps the cue perfectly in place.
 
wigglybridge said:
okay, i have some very interesting results to report here.

last night, i played one of the best players in the room i go to. this guy is by any measure a waaaaaay better player than i am. even though he mostly plays 9-ball and 10-ball these days, he remembers 14.1 from his early days, and he's enjoyed getting back into it from my obsession with it.

our previous games had him beating me by 100:48, 100:52, and 100:66, and he wasn't even trying.

our first game last night he Barely got by me 100:96, and i got every bad roll you could Possibly imagine and then some; this isn't just whining: literally i'd blast open the rack on the break and get Glued to an object ball with no shot and no other balls touching. i played Hugely over my level, and i was ecstatic.

he asked me if we could play another. which i Won 100:79.

the only difference: i tucked my ring finger under.

hey, i'm not claiming anything; i'm just reporting the data.
Click to expand...

Any chance you can have someone take a photo of you making your bridge, so I can better visualize it, rather than estimate based on written descriptions?

I need to really go back to the drawing board re my mechanics. I think a better bridge is a fine place to start.

P.S. this keeps up, you'll need to change your name. :)
 
actually, dub, "if this keeps up", my name would finally be accurate.

as far as posting my bridge, there's nothing special about it. if you want to check out the ring finger business we're discussing, just check out any video of Mike Sigel playing; he's pretty much the poster child for this issue.
 
wigglybridge said:
actually, dub, "if this keeps up", my name would finally be accurate.

as far as posting my bridge, there's nothing special about it. if you want to check out the ring finger business we're discussing, just check out any video of Mike Sigel playing; he's pretty much the poster child for this issue.
Click to expand...

Cool enuf, thanks
 
i did some bridge experiments last night on a desk i have that's fortuitously the same height as the bed of a pool table, and -- to nobody's surprise, probably -- Sean and Fran are right: leaving the ring finger out of the equation makes my bridge noticeably more stable.

i wasn't hitting a ball, but i could see just from practicing my stroke over a knot in the wood of the desk that the stroke was significantly straighter and more consistent.

i'm pretty sure the dramatic improvement i had the other night in those 2 matches was no accident, but the result of this steadiness, because both my shot-making and my position accuracy -- which in 14.1 is often measured in millimeters -- were way better than is my norm.

i also noticed that my opponent didn't tuck the finger under, but he does wiggle the ring finger and pinkie rhythmically in unison in between warmup strokes.

but i'm now convinced that getting that finger out of the way and focusing on nailing the others to the cloth is a must for me.
 
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wigglybridge said:
i did some bridge experiments last night on a desk i have that's fortuitously the same height as the bed of a pool table, and -- to nobody's surprise, probably -- Sean and Fran are right: leaving the ring finger out of the equation makes my bridge noticeably more stable.

i wasn't hitting a ball, but i could see just from practicing my stroke over a knot in the wood of the desk that the stroke was significantly straighter and more consistent.

i'm pretty sure the dramatic improvement i had the other night in those 2 matches was no accident, but the result of this steadiness, because both my shot-making and my position accuracy -- which in 14.1 is often measured in millimeters -- were way better than is my norm.

i also noticed that my opponent didn't tuck the finger under, but he does wiggle the ring finger and pinkie rhythmically in unison in between warmup strokes.

but i'm now convinced that getting that finger out of the way and focusing on nailing the others to the cloth is a must for me.
Click to expand...

You probably had some previous movement in your bridge hand which you have now corrected. I keep my ring finger in play when I bridge, although the pressure is lightest on my ring finger --- which means my pressure points are still the same as discussed here. I think there are a few different ways to form a stable bridge. The important thing is to find a bridge that doesn't move as your cue slides through, at any speed.
 
I worked on trying this last night, and made a little progress. It will take a lot of time for me to get my hand to do this naturally, but I can see how it will benefit me when i do.

Funny story. I went to my league last night and I said hi to one of the best players in our league. He replies back, and then asks me how I'm doing with the philipino bridge :eek:

Pretty cool. I knew that he comes here and checks stuff out, but it still caught me off guard. And he helped me out some with it, as well. Love this place. :p
 
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