The Sets in Tempe, $500 Added 9 Ball Tourney

CocoboloCowboy said:
That is why this under 8 don't play in them. If I want to get beat up I can go to Metro on Monday and Play in an Open for $7.00.
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You missed the whole point.....Which was....IF you want to get better you need to pony up at some point and play the better players straight up.....Other states encourage that.....About the only tournaments in Arizona that do that are Alexanders, Main Street Tucson or The Desert Tour

The Monday night Metro is not the same thing....My hunch is that you only go to 3 games...Even if you win...you are not learning to play better...It means you probably slopped in a 9-ball (or 3) before a 10 has to win 7 games....

Or in the case of playing a 10-1 (AKA: Jimmy / Dennis / Mitch) you only have to slop in 2 9-balls...(or wait for them to hang 1)

OR...IF you play Scott you only have to win 1 lousy game before he wins 7.
Tell me how that is benefiting your game???

Let me tell you from experience....NOBODY that plays in 8 and under tournaments plays good pool...Anymore...even if it were a 9 and under tournament it would not be good pool becuase so many people that have learned nothing more about pool other than to wait for thier opponent to miss on the 7 leaving a three ball out are now 9 rated players.

Watch close in those something and under events to see who wins...It is the guy that has learned to miss early and wait for the opponent to make a mistake on the 5 to the 6 to the 7...and leave you an easy out any hack can make....Belive me...I have made a good chunck of money on weekly events by nothing more than the above... .Heck...it got to the poiont I could almost look at a rack and tell you what ball the guy was going to get out of line or dog.

Thinking about this I am actually disgusted in the whole ratings system. I have pretty much waisted years playing in these events when I could have been playing in events that would have forced me to learn to play correctly from the get go.....had they not used a ratings system in this state and just said sign up and play...and either get better or quit...

EDIT: I should add...even though this tournament (at the sets) does not apply to me since I am a 9 and it is only for 8 and under players....If I were still an 8 (or it was a 9 and under), I would still rather drive to Tucson and see and play against better players (in an effort to get better) rather than play in a handicapped tournament (where good players are not even allowed to play) that really only shows who did not sell out the most.......Now..if it did not conflict (and I was allowed to play)...I would probably play since handicapped pool would be better than no pool...(which is the only reason I play on Monday nights)

2nd Edit: I should also add....If my comments seem harsh against the lower rated players making it seem like none of them can play decent pool....Good....step up and play like the 10 that you should be...
 
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With the 5 Million+ people in this area, I don't feel that we can only limit ourselves to 1 event per weekend. Especially when we have a completely different event, in a different city, for a different audience of players. I hope you can see that the intention was in no way to interfere or take players from your event. :cool:

If other bars (besides Alexanders, Metro, Kolby's, Main St.'s) want to run tourneys, your suggestion is to coordinate with them first? I highly doubt if my tourney was "Broadcast" on all the major billiard literature before your out-of-town tourney, you would have picked another date. If these are the rules, then all the little guys better fold up shop. :confused:

The Sets is advertised in AZ Billiards News, It's posted on AZPoolScene.com, Players from local bars, (Such as: Q N Brew, Groggy's, Uncle Monkey, Playa, ASU Union, Mill Cue Club, Palo Verde, etc.) have been notified.

Let's let the players make there decisions. And I'll make sure to plan months in advance in the future.

We're planning a Benefit for Autism Tournament for some weekend in July and we'll not do it the same weekend as your Metro Tour Stop.
 
stuckart said:
With the 5 Million+ people in this area, I don't feel that we can only limit ourselves to 1 event per weekend. Especially when we have a completely different event, in a different city, for a different audience of players. I hope you can see that the intention was in no way to interfere or take players from your event. :cool:

If other bars (besides Alexanders, Metro, Kolby's, Main St.'s) want to run tourneys, your suggestion is to coordinate with them first? I highly doubt if my tourney was "Broadcast" on all the major billiard literature before your out-of-town tourney, you would have picked another date. If these are the rules, then all the little guys better fold up shop. :confused:

The Sets is advertised in AZ Billiards News, It's posted on AZPoolScene.com, Players from local bars, (Such as: Q N Brew, Groggy's, Uncle Monkey, Playa, ASU Union, Mill Cue Club, Palo Verde, etc.) have been notified.

Let's let the players make there decisions. And I'll make sure to plan months in advance in the future.

We're planning a Benefit for Autism Tournament for some weekend in July and we'll not do it the same weekend as your Metro Tour Stop.
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The problem is the media that is being used only gets read by perhaps 500,000...and that is probably a pretty generous number.
 
BRKNRUN, I think we all agree that this is the best way for players that WANT to get better. But everyone is on a different page. And there is still a need for little guys to have a chance to make some money as well.

I've played in a couple of the old tour's events in the past. I learned a ton from it. I changed teams/leagues numerous times trying to improve my game and competition. But others are interested in having a good time and aren't striving to improve every second like some of us.

I love the rating system, (until I become a 9+), because of how many tourneys can happen at every bar. Many more can compete and have a chance. Rated tourneys push the better players to stay more consistent like you noted, against the 6 rated players.

Atleast The Sets tourney is a full race. It's not as easy for a 6 to get lucky. It pushes the 8's to compete with each other and watch-out for the super 7's. Plus it's sponsored by Heineken and Dos Equis. There will be shot promotions, beer specials, giveaways, t-shirts, a 3 & out drawing for other prizes.
 
If other bars (besides Alexanders, Metro, Kolby's, Main St.'s) want to run tourneys, your suggestion is to coordinate with them first? I highly doubt if my tourney was "Broadcast" on all the major billiard literature before your out-of-town tourney, you would have picked another date. If these are the rules, then all the little guys better fold up shop. :confused:
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This is where you are sadly mistaken again. This is exactly what was done when we sat down and discussed our schedule. And these are not the rules, because if they were, many others before you would have been disciplined for violating them. All I'm saying is it would have been a good gesture on your part to consider the Tour stop that Bob Jackson is hosting. After all, you are a member of his rating's commitee, aren't you? You know all about the tour, offered suggestions for it, expressed interest in holding events at your last establishment, and now support running significant added events in direct conflict with it. That was somewhat surprising and disappointing to many players, including myself.


Let's let the players make there decisions. And I'll make sure to plan months in advance in the future.
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Good idea!



We're planning a Benefit for Autism Tournament for some weekend in July and we'll not do it the same weekend as your Metro Tour Stop.
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Good idea, I'm sure Al would appreciate that as well. Not to mention, I would think you would want as many players as possible, which is the result, when you don't have conflicting events.
 
Many of the clientele of The Sets are 6 and 7 rated players with some 8's in the mix. None of which care about the Desert Classic Tour. And they definitely don't want to drive to Tucson.
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I would take the stance, that as a tournament director, if you truly are trying to promote pool and assist in it's growth within the state, you would attempt to change this mentality, and get them to support all pool related events. I'm certain the owners of The Sets would love to have clientele from all over the state of Arizona, not just the beer drinking pool players, who could care less.

Dennis
 
stuckart said:
I've also heard many 8's and 9's talk how they won't support your tour because they don't want to support the top 10 players in the state. When I first heard this it gave me a bitter taste in my mouth, but at the same time I can respect there feelings.
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No one is forcing anyone to play in any tournament. For most of us, these tournaments all fall under the category of "recreation". If they aren't having any fun playing then, by all means, they shouldn't play.

As far as your tournament scheduling, honestly, I don't care all that much. It would be nice if everyone cooperated with each other but, the reality is, there are only a handful of weekends in every month so, regardless of how hard everyone tries, there will be schedule conflicts. No big deal. We didn't have to work as hard not to schedule on top of other people's events because we scheduled ours well in advance, and there weren't so many events that were already scheduled that we had to take into consideration. I understand that, as the year progresses, and more people do schedule events, it will be tougher and tougher for those people to find weekends where they aren't running their events on top of someone else's, so it isn't like I'm expecting unrealistic things here.

I'm certainly not going to argue with you about any of this. You seemed taken aback at the thought that Dennis and/or I might not have loved the idea of you scheduling an 8-and-under on the same weekend, so I offered an explanation as to why that was. You obviously see things the way you see them, so there really is no need to keep going back and forth. If you are unable to see our point of view, I am not going to try to cram it down your throat.

Good luck with your promotions. Sounds like you got some sponsorship from outside the pool world. That's always good news since outside sponsorship seems to be so elusive in the pool world.
 
BRKNRUN said:
You missed the whole point.....Which was....IF you want to get better you need to pony up at some point and play the better players straight up.....Other states encourage that.....About the only tournaments in Arizona that do that are Alexanders, Main Street Tucson or The Desert Tour
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This is Arizona and we have a Rating System, be it good, bad, or indifferent we are stuck with the Rating System until it goes away.

Arizona Billiards Info-Had an Article on the AZ Rating System this month

Anyone who red the article in Arizona Billiard Info, April 2008, Page 10 Titled, ? So...............where?s your card? By Ron Merseal the Owner of Alexander?s Bar in Phoenix.

Get ron?s Prospective on how the system should work. I say should as it does not work like ron described it IMHO in some of the Bar/Rooms I have played in. Maybe it work like Ron describes in Alexander?s but not as I said all Room/Bars.

Do not think I am personally ready at my shill level to as you say ?pony up?

The Monday night Metro is not the same thing....My hunch is that you only go to 3 games...Even if you win...you are not learning to play better...It means you probably slopped in a 9-ball (or 3) before a 10 has to win 7 games....

Or in the case of playing a 10-1 (AKA: Jimmy / Dennis / Mitch) you only have to slop in 2 9-balls...(or wait for them to hang 1)

OR...IF you play Scott you only have to win 1 lousy game before he wins 7.
Tell me how that is benefiting your game???
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That is why I do what I do, when i can, and when I have the extra funds for trip to Kobly?s on sunday for their 8 and under.

Let me tell you from experience....NOBODY that plays in 8 and under tournaments plays good pool...Anymore...even if it were a 9 and under tournament it would not be good pool because so many people that have learned nothing more about pool other than to wait for their opponent to miss on the 7 leaving a three ball out are now 9 rated players.

Watch close in those something and under events to see who wins...It is the guy that has learned to miss early and wait for the opponent to make a mistake on the 5 to the 6 to the 7...and leave you an easy out any hack can make....Belive me...I have made a good chunck of money on weekly events by nothing more than the above... .Heck...it got to the poiont I could almost look at a rack and tell you what ball the guy was going to get out of line or dog.
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But a 10 Player can and will run Rack after Rack, and all iI will do is learn to rack, and contribute to the Prize FUND

IMHO the 10?s, 10-1?s, and 10-2?s love the 8 and under player increasing the Prize Fund so they can win more Money.

Thinking about this I am actually disgusted in the whole ratings system. I have pretty much waisted years playing in these events when I could have been playing in events that would have forced me to learn to play correctly from the get go.....had they not used a ratings system in this state and just said sign up and play...and either get better or quit.
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You stated: ? I am actually disgusted in the whole ratings system? Than step up and start a movement to make it go away so Arizona is like say montana, where they just PLAY POOL, and no one is rated.

EDIT: I should add...even though this tournament (at the sets) does not apply to me since I am a 9 and it is only for 8 and under players....If I were still an 8 (or it was a 9 and under), I would still rather drive to Tucson and see and play against better players (in an effort to get better) rather than play in a handicapped tournament (where good players are not even allowed to play) that really only shows who did not sell out the most.......Now..if it did not conflict (and I was allowed to play)...I would probably play since handicapped pool would be better than no pool...(which is the only reason I play on Monday nights)

2nd Edit: I should also add....If my comments seem harsh against the lower rated players making it seem like none of them can play decent pool....Good....step up and play like the 10 that you should be...
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You said: ?If my comments seem harsh against the lower rated players making it seem like none of them can play decent pool? You were just voicing you opinion, like Idid above.
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I understand that you don't love the idea. It's probably the same as me not liking the idea of you guys coming on to "Tournament Announcements" and making statements against our tournament.

Like you said, there wasn't many weekends to choose from and it came down to what was local or not. April 12th was the only weekend where we weren't competing locally. Then we decided to do an 8 & under as there were far less 8's and below that would make the drive, compared to 9's and 10's. We almost did 7 & Under, but had a few 8's ask about it before we finalized.

prince said:
This is where you are sadly mistaken again.
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I'm glad you saw my sarcasm.

I've already spoken with Holly about getting some outside pool sponsorships. I've worked for Miller Brewing and Harley Davidson in the past, so I have some experience getting sponsorships. And it's something I might be able to work out for you guys in the future.
 
stuckart said:
I've already spoken with Holly about getting some outside pool sponsorships. I've worked for Miller Brewing and Harley Davidson in the past, so I have some experience getting sponsorships. And it's something I might be able to work out for you guys in the future.
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Miller Brewing and Harley Davidson wow.
 
Prince said:
I would take the stance, that as a tournament director, if you truly are trying to promote pool and assist in it's growth within the state, you would attempt to change this mentality, and get them to support all pool related events. I'm certain the owners of The Sets would love to have clientele from all over the state of Arizona, not just the beer drinking pool players, who could care less.

Dennis
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I personally think this tournament at Sets that is a $500.00 added tournament for 8's and Under will attract will attract many more player than the "beer drinking pool players, who could care less".

Yes there will be some of those beer drinking pool players, who could care less, but there will be some players who are working on becoming better, and have chosen this venue to do that. Get better because maybe they are 5's, or 6's, or even 7's, and have a chance at a decent prize pot.

Many of these 5's, 6's, and 7's do not have the financial ability to pay a $40.00 annual registration fee, another $50.00 event fee, and than pay bar box fees knowing will they will only get run over by some 9 or 10 rated player.

Like I said I think the Sets event will attract some pool player who are serious about pool, but have not gained the ability to play and compete against 9's, 10's, 10-1's, or 10-2's players yet.
 
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Tables are $.75 each. Winner Breaks, Loser Pays. So if you never lose you never spend any money.
 
Sounds good Drew! Tell some friends and let's make this event a huge success.

The owners have said that if I can get a good turnout, they'll throw $500+ every month for different events. We'll probably do a 7 & Under and a 9 & Under in the summer months. We are open to ideas.

Patrick who runs the AZ Billiards Info Newspaper has an Autistic Son, so I know we are going to do a benefit for Autism sometime in June or July. Should be a great turnout for a great cause.

Look forward to it!

Jerry
 
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