So now I'm stuck in a small town and therefore stuck playing bar pool. Personally with me, that means I've been dealt the worst card in the deck.:smile: For you bar players, no disrespect intended, but what gets my juices flowing is hanging around good to great players, 9 ft'ers, onepocket players and action. Spending 20 mins a game (unless I can run out) beating up on people that don't know what "shape" is, is not gratifying by any stretch of the imagination. They take soooooooooo looooooooong to shoot too. I thrive on playing people that can beat my azz, not the other way around.
So it got me to thinking about hustling and players I've met over the last 3 or 4 decades, that are shooting below their level in order to try and make a few bucks. This would include both bars and pool halls. I'm not talking about hard core hustling or really laying down the lemon, but more of the subtle things you see. This thread is also NOT about the discussion of whether you believe hustling is right or wrong, there's plenty of threads already about that. Search for them and post away:smile: I'm more interested in hearing about the subtle moves/actions you have noticed over your pool career or ones that you, yourself, have employed.
First off for me, would be things that I notice, that give me cause for concern about a unknown player that's trying to get myself or others, to bet something. I think I'm rather astute when it comes to identifying someone that can play, versus ones that can't. This would come from the thousands of hours I've spent in bars/pool rooms and being a houseman at a pool hall, and being exposed to a constant stream of people that were unknown looking to match up.
1. The first thing I notice is their stance, grip, bridge hand and follow thru. While one can alter all of these to look like a huckleberry, I believe people try to hard to look like a huckleberry, and therefore these areas come across as greatly exaggerated. Fake even. They alter their stance but forget about their bridge. Or they got the wackies bridge you've ever seen, but they're perfect when it comes to their stance and followthru. So it's hard to disguise all of those areas at the same time.
2. They either hit everything real hard or real soft. On the hard side, they're hitting them hard, but using a lot of stun to control the cueball or a lot of inside to kill it. This allows you to hit most shots hard, but you're killing the cueball. My favorite is the soft shooter. Everything is shot at pocket speed... just enough for it to dribble in. Half the time you're walking to the table, only to turn your azz around and head back, because it trickled in. That takes some serious skill to shoot softly on bar tables on overcome the table. (All of my discussion revolves around it being a typical bar table, not a Diamond:smile
Heavy, chipped up cue balls, slow cloth, ungodly unlevel, dead rails, big chunks gone from the local masse wannabe.
3. Might fall into No. 1, but needs a class of it's own. The guy that jumps up on every shot. Or his cue comes flying up as if trying to spear the flys overhead. Typically, they will either lunge forward, or jump straight up, or after contact, their cuestick will come flying upwards (these movements work great for the person disguising his bridge) All of these are designed to work like a magician (no, not that one
) Lots of activity to pull your eyes away from what's really happening. What's really happening is he's got a nice stroke, nice grip, nice stance, but that's all a distant memory after seeing all the gyrations and twisting and wondering how much longer before the lights are going to speared.
4. Probably the easiest method to use and a very powerful one, is the shot selection and the leaves. You know, the guy doesn't shoot all that well, but you'll be damned if you can remember the last time you had a decent shot after he missed. Or he'll leave you straight in on a shot, looking like a total sell out, but you start to looking and you really got no shot except that one. Either he's left you a impossible shot to get shape on anything or you're going to have to pull a Mike Massey stroke shot to get anything. So by first appearances, he appears to be selling out, but not really. This is the same guy that's discretely putting balls in front of pockets or tying up the eight ball with none of your balls around to break it out, but his are around it.
The defense method is very effective, as it appears as most of the game is on the up and up, but he's shooting shots where if he misses, you would have no shot or a tough one. Or it just seems as if every rack is such a nightmare and a struggle to get thru, whereas he's picking off 3 here, you're shooting a 20% shot, he gets 3 more and your balls are still tied up and if you miss, he's out.
Some things I do, if I feel so inclined to do so, which is rare anymore. Just not into doing that kind of stuff anymore, as I can be happy just playing myself rather then endure all the hassle and possible trouble that comes with hiding your speed. I would employ the method above for the largest portion of my "hustle" Shooting the ducks in for shape, but when I come to the tougher shots, making sure I shoot more of the leave, then shape for my next shot.
I would also look at a lot of shots thru out the game, as if they're hard shots to me. Just trying to make like I'm agonizing over what shot to shoot or that I just don't appear to have much confidence in whether I can make it. So when I do, I appear to be relieved or lucky to have made it. I would also be more of the hard shooter. Hitting the ball hard, but controlling it with reverse or stun, or going multiple rails instead of one.
I already look like I can't make a ball with my unorthodox stance, so I got that going for me, but I've always been able to do a lot of twisting and jumping up and loads of body english, and still do relatively well.
I can do punch strokes, where it doesn't appear that I have any stroke at all, I just hold the cuetip near the ball and just take one backswing and hit it.
I'll also appear to be very upset with myself after missing a shot, or getting out of line. Like I'm trying so hard, that I'm doing badly because of it. Or act like each shot is the most important shot in the world.
But I was just thinking about all the people I remember thru the years, and what methods they were utilizing and how quickly I caught on to them or how accurately I had guessed their speed. I happen to enjoy a good soft con, and I have respect for a person that can do it well, as it is a art in itself.
So anyone else have anything to add to the thread...any methods to this "art" that I haven't mentioned? ( I have many more, but my post is already to long) Any that you use with success? Or that you enjoy doing?
Remember, this is not a thread about whether you believe this is right or wrong, but the methods or actions that you've seen over time. Preferrebly no stories about how you went into a bar with 1 dollar and hustled the cook out of 2 billion six hundred and eighty four thousand. I mean C'mon on... Do the math!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UjtbEg4HHZw
So it got me to thinking about hustling and players I've met over the last 3 or 4 decades, that are shooting below their level in order to try and make a few bucks. This would include both bars and pool halls. I'm not talking about hard core hustling or really laying down the lemon, but more of the subtle things you see. This thread is also NOT about the discussion of whether you believe hustling is right or wrong, there's plenty of threads already about that. Search for them and post away:smile: I'm more interested in hearing about the subtle moves/actions you have noticed over your pool career or ones that you, yourself, have employed.
First off for me, would be things that I notice, that give me cause for concern about a unknown player that's trying to get myself or others, to bet something. I think I'm rather astute when it comes to identifying someone that can play, versus ones that can't. This would come from the thousands of hours I've spent in bars/pool rooms and being a houseman at a pool hall, and being exposed to a constant stream of people that were unknown looking to match up.
1. The first thing I notice is their stance, grip, bridge hand and follow thru. While one can alter all of these to look like a huckleberry, I believe people try to hard to look like a huckleberry, and therefore these areas come across as greatly exaggerated. Fake even. They alter their stance but forget about their bridge. Or they got the wackies bridge you've ever seen, but they're perfect when it comes to their stance and followthru. So it's hard to disguise all of those areas at the same time.
2. They either hit everything real hard or real soft. On the hard side, they're hitting them hard, but using a lot of stun to control the cueball or a lot of inside to kill it. This allows you to hit most shots hard, but you're killing the cueball. My favorite is the soft shooter. Everything is shot at pocket speed... just enough for it to dribble in. Half the time you're walking to the table, only to turn your azz around and head back, because it trickled in. That takes some serious skill to shoot softly on bar tables on overcome the table. (All of my discussion revolves around it being a typical bar table, not a Diamond:smile
Heavy, chipped up cue balls, slow cloth, ungodly unlevel, dead rails, big chunks gone from the local masse wannabe.3. Might fall into No. 1, but needs a class of it's own. The guy that jumps up on every shot. Or his cue comes flying up as if trying to spear the flys overhead. Typically, they will either lunge forward, or jump straight up, or after contact, their cuestick will come flying upwards (these movements work great for the person disguising his bridge) All of these are designed to work like a magician (no, not that one
) Lots of activity to pull your eyes away from what's really happening. What's really happening is he's got a nice stroke, nice grip, nice stance, but that's all a distant memory after seeing all the gyrations and twisting and wondering how much longer before the lights are going to speared.4. Probably the easiest method to use and a very powerful one, is the shot selection and the leaves. You know, the guy doesn't shoot all that well, but you'll be damned if you can remember the last time you had a decent shot after he missed. Or he'll leave you straight in on a shot, looking like a total sell out, but you start to looking and you really got no shot except that one. Either he's left you a impossible shot to get shape on anything or you're going to have to pull a Mike Massey stroke shot to get anything. So by first appearances, he appears to be selling out, but not really. This is the same guy that's discretely putting balls in front of pockets or tying up the eight ball with none of your balls around to break it out, but his are around it.
The defense method is very effective, as it appears as most of the game is on the up and up, but he's shooting shots where if he misses, you would have no shot or a tough one. Or it just seems as if every rack is such a nightmare and a struggle to get thru, whereas he's picking off 3 here, you're shooting a 20% shot, he gets 3 more and your balls are still tied up and if you miss, he's out.
Some things I do, if I feel so inclined to do so, which is rare anymore. Just not into doing that kind of stuff anymore, as I can be happy just playing myself rather then endure all the hassle and possible trouble that comes with hiding your speed. I would employ the method above for the largest portion of my "hustle" Shooting the ducks in for shape, but when I come to the tougher shots, making sure I shoot more of the leave, then shape for my next shot.
I would also look at a lot of shots thru out the game, as if they're hard shots to me. Just trying to make like I'm agonizing over what shot to shoot or that I just don't appear to have much confidence in whether I can make it. So when I do, I appear to be relieved or lucky to have made it. I would also be more of the hard shooter. Hitting the ball hard, but controlling it with reverse or stun, or going multiple rails instead of one.
I already look like I can't make a ball with my unorthodox stance, so I got that going for me, but I've always been able to do a lot of twisting and jumping up and loads of body english, and still do relatively well.
I can do punch strokes, where it doesn't appear that I have any stroke at all, I just hold the cuetip near the ball and just take one backswing and hit it.I'll also appear to be very upset with myself after missing a shot, or getting out of line. Like I'm trying so hard, that I'm doing badly because of it. Or act like each shot is the most important shot in the world.
But I was just thinking about all the people I remember thru the years, and what methods they were utilizing and how quickly I caught on to them or how accurately I had guessed their speed. I happen to enjoy a good soft con, and I have respect for a person that can do it well, as it is a art in itself.
So anyone else have anything to add to the thread...any methods to this "art" that I haven't mentioned? ( I have many more, but my post is already to long) Any that you use with success? Or that you enjoy doing?
Remember, this is not a thread about whether you believe this is right or wrong, but the methods or actions that you've seen over time. Preferrebly no stories about how you went into a bar with 1 dollar and hustled the cook out of 2 billion six hundred and eighty four thousand. I mean C'mon on... Do the math!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UjtbEg4HHZw