The "Z" kick

[Patrick Johnson]

I shot from one diamond up and one diamond to the right of the CB position in your illustration.

Of course that's not on the line shown in the diagram, so you'd have to recalculate (with the CB projected back to the near rail, which can be difficult).

It calculates almost a full diamond wide of the OB

I don't follow this. Do you mean it hits almost a diamond wide?

with next to non-existent sidespin

I tested the system without any sidespin (because it's too difficult to repeat precisely).

coming right off the calculated 2nd rail target.

As I said above, you need to recalculate the 2nd rail target from the new CB position.

This formula is just another attempt to make simple something which can't be made simple.

Like all kick/bank systems, this one should be viewed as a "reference" from which to adjust to reality. That concept works for some, not for others.

It resembles aiming systems in that respect.

Those work for some and not for others too. I like some kick/bank systems (as references), but haven't run across an aiming system I like.

pj
chgo

 

[risky biz]

Of course that's not on the line shown in the diagram, so you'd have to recalculate (with the CB projected back to the near rail, which can be difficult).


I don't follow this. Do you mean it hits almost a diamond wide?


I tested the system without any sidespin (because it's too difficult to repeat precisely).


As I said above, you need to recalculate the 2nd rail target from the new CB position.


Like all kick/bank systems, this one should be viewed as a "reference" from which to adjust to reality. That concept works for some, not for others.


Those work for some and not for others too. I like some kick/bank systems (as references), but haven't run across an aiming system I like.

pj
chgo

Not difficult to calculate if placing the CB on diamond coordinates.

I meant that the formula calculated in a manner that makes the CB hit almost a diamond wide. But . . .

Also, I just realized that I calculated wrong or was using a different CB position than I said in the post above. If the CB was where I said above then the calculated 2nd rail target should have been a 3rd of a diamond shorter than what I remember shooting at. I will try this again in a few days.

 

[Patrick Johnson]

Not difficult to calculate if placing the CB on diamond coordinates.

How do you calculate for CBs on the diamond coordinates (not on the near rail)?

pj
chgo

 

[risky biz]

How do you calculate for CBs on the diamond coordinates (not on the near rail)?

pj
chgo

Your diagram is showing a calculation of 8 x 4 = 32/16th's = 2 diamond stepback for second rail target.

If the CB is one diamond up and one diamond to the right wouldn't it be 7 x 3 = 21/16th's = 1 diamond plus 5/16th's stepback for a second rail target? If not, then what is the calculation?

 

[Patrick Johnson]

Your diagram is showing a calculation of 8 x 4 = 32/16th's = 2 diamond stepback for second rail target.

If the CB is one diamond up and one diamond to the right wouldn't it be 7 x 3 = 21/16th's = 1 diamond plus 5/16th's stepback for a second rail target? If not, then what is the calculation?

The calculation is horizontal distance between balls x vertical distance to OB. Vertical distance to CB doesn't enter into it.

Here's the tricky part: The horizontal distance is measured along the near rail from the point vertically below the OB to the point where the CB's calculated path hits the near rail (not vertically below the CB). In other words, the CB's path and the horizontal distance depend on each other, so you have to find them by trial and error.

It's similar to the method for measuring simple one-rail kicks where you pivot your stick over the CB until it forms one leg of an isosceles triangle leading to the target pocket. But instead of a fixed target pocket your target is the z-system's calculated 2nd rail target, and its position has to be constantly recalculated as you pivot your stick over the CB.

I think the easiest way to use the system when the CB is not on the near rail is to calculate the nearest track for a CB on the near rail at a diamond and adjust by feel (or visual estimation) from there. With practice this should become pretty easy (although there's some simple math involved) - I do this in a fraction of a second for the one-rail kick measurements described above.

pj
chgo

 

[risky biz]

The calculation is horizontal distance between balls x vertical distance to OB. Vertical distance to CB doesn't enter into it.

Here's the tricky part: The horizontal distance is measured along the near rail from the point vertically below the OB to the point where the CB's calculated path hits the near rail (not vertically below the CB). In other words, the CB's path and the horizontal distance depend on each other, so you have to find them by trial and error.

It's similar to the method for measuring simple one-rail kicks where you pivot your stick over the CB until it forms one leg of an isosceles triangle leading to the target pocket. But instead of a fixed target pocket your target is the z-system's calculated 2nd rail target, and its position has to be constantly recalculated as you pivot your stick over the CB.

I think the easiest way to use the system when the CB is not on the near rail is to calculate the nearest track for a CB on the near rail at a diamond and adjust by feel (or visual estimation) from there. With practice this should become pretty easy (although there's some simple math involved) - I do this in a fraction of a second for the one-rail kick measurements described above.

pj
chgo

When you say, "the point where the CB's calculated path hits the near rail" are you referring to the 2nd rail target or where the extension of the iso triangle backwards hits the near rail?

 

[Patrick Johnson]

When you say, "the point where the CB's calculated path hits the near rail" are you referring to the 2nd rail target or where the extension of the iso triangle backwards hits the near rail?

Where the extension of the iso triangle backwards (through the CB) hits the rail.

In Reid's video he clearly doesn't measure this way, but it's also clearly the only way the system works. Either he was just careless in his video description or he doesn't understand this aspect of his own system and adjusts subconsciously for the CB's distance from the near rail. It's not unlikely that he misunderstands this detail, but it's remarkable if so because he sometimes has to adjust in different directions (longer or shorter) for CBs at different distances from the near rail on the same vertical line.

pj
chgo

 

[risky biz]

Where the extension of the iso triangle backwards (through the CB) hits the rail.

In Reid's video he clearly doesn't measure this way, but it's also clearly the only way the system works. Either he was just careless in his video description or he doesn't understand this aspect of his own system and adjusts subconsciously for the CB's distance from the near rail. It's not unlikely that he misunderstands this detail, but it's remarkable if so because he sometimes has to adjust in different directions (longer or shorter) for CBs at different distances from the near rail on the same vertical line.

pj
chgo

This 'shortcut' is pretty useless to me then. I'll just look at the target ball, do the calculation intuitively, and shoot. I think I'll hit the intended target more often that way than trying to do backwards math from a second rail target that I have already determined.