theory or practice?

Solartje

Solartje

the Brunswick BUG bit me
Silver Member
hiya all,

ive been wondering something.

There are SO many greath posts who explain every little part about pool. Techniqueqs, mathematics, squirt, deflection, banking systems, diamonds etc etc.. I could spend 3 years reading them all and trying to aply them in my game. (example is these posts; http://www.sfbilliards.com/articles/BD_articles.html who i find GREATH and learn me ALOT)

But, im a natural player. Since i started playing pool in competition, and ive started reading alot about pool (on this forum and other places), my game went down, down to very bad. I was starting to miss easiest balls possible, and my confidence went down with a low a week ago. I didnt know what was happening, i was understanding more, learning more, using more theoretical techniques, number systems etc, but i played ALOT worse.

They day before my final, i spend 6 hours trying to find my game back, and after 4 hours i found it. what happened is, when playing competition etc i started to think about many things, my preshot routine would consist of 4 - 5 adressing shots, my time in between pots would be around 5-7seconds. When i changed it back to my 'casual fun game', my adressing changed back to 0 (easy shots) to 1 (harder shots) adressing shots, and time in between shots was just enough to put chalk on. and check something (3-5sec's) and i found my game back again. I wouldnt use any of the techniques i learned, i didnt take in account the possible effects like deflection, squirt, etc etc.. just trust where the balls are going by experience (even if its not a 20y old experience, only 6year casual, and 5months serieus)

now my question: Yes i know im a natural player. But is all the things i read and learn, something that will pay off in a long time, but something that screws up your game in a short time (5 months?).

should i continue aplying all im learning and reading, and my game will get back to its original level in some months and higher in some years (higher then if i didnt aply all these theory's), or should i just stop thinking to much, and just play, and trust my inner feeling? When im in the zone, i know im not thinking at all, my mind is totally BLANK. im not thinking of possible problems, im not thinking of happy space, im like a vedgetable. i just know i will never miss a pot, clear every rack and win vs any guy, even Earl, busta , whoever, stroking or potting the ball is just a matter of time.
 
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Solartje said:
hiya all,

ive been wondering something.

There are SO many greath posts who explain every little part about pool. Techniqueqs, mathematics, squirt, deflection, banking systems, diamonds etc etc.. I could spend 3 years reading them all and trying to aply them in my game. (example is these posts; http://www.sfbilliards.com/articles/BD_articles.html who i find GREATH and learn me ALOT)

But, im a natural player. Since i started playing pool in competition, and ive started reading alot about pool (on this forum and other places), my game went down, down to very bad. I was starting to miss easiest balls possible, and my confidence went down with a low a week ago. I didnt know what was happening, i was understanding more, learning more, using more theoretical techniques, number systems etc, but i played ALOT worse.

They day before my final, i spend 6 hours trying to find my game back, and after 4 hours i found it. what happened is, when playing competition etc i started to think about many things, my preshot routine would consist of 4 - 5 adressing shots, my time in between pots would be around 5-7seconds. When i changed it back to my 'casual fun game', my adressing changed back to 0 (easy shots) to 1 (harder shots) adressing shots, and time in between shots was just enough to put chalk on. and check something (3-5sec's) and i found my game back again. I wouldnt use any of the techniques i learned, i didnt take in account the possible effects like deflection, squirt, etc etc.. just trust where the balls are going by experience (even if its not a 20y old experience, only 6year casual, and 5months serieus)

now my question: Yes i know im a natural player. But is all the things i read and learn, something that will pay off in a long time, but something that screws up your game in a short time (5 months?).

should i continue aplying all im learning and reading, and my game will get back to its original level in some months and higher in some years (higher then if i didnt aply all these theory's), or should i just stop thinking to much, and just play, and trust my inner feeling? When im in the zone, i know im not thinking at all, my mind is totally BLANK. im not thinking of possible problems, im not thinking of happy space, im like a vedgetable. i just know i will never miss a pot, clear every rack and win vs any guy, even Earl, busta , whoever, stroking or potting the ball is just a matter of time.
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Solly,
Sometimes when I read threads about squirt, or throw, my game may suffer a little. I think the cause is double compensation. Compensating both consciously and subconsciously. Knowing why is OK, but try not to dwell on these things and see if it goes better.

Tracy
 
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RSB-Refugee said:
Solly,
Sometimes when I read threads about squirt, or throw, my game may suffer a little. I think the cause is double compensation. Compesating both consciously and subconsciously. Knowing why is OK, but try not to dwell on these things and see if it goes better.

Tracy
Click to expand...

I think that's a good point; don't try to consciously change what your subconscious is already doing right. You can't argue with results, and if you have a full arsenal of pool techniques that work for you, don't worry if you have trouble when you try to do things differently.

I think all the "theory" about the physics of pool and the techniques people use should only be important to you if there's something that you have trouble doing on a pool table. If you have trouble getting draw on the ball, read about it, try out some of the techniques in practice, and find something that works for you. If you have trouble playing position off three rails, read about the diamonds and running english, and try them out. If you always seem to make shots with outside english, but you are inconsistent with inside english or no english, read about contact throw and compensating for it.

But if you can execute every aspect of your game correctly (when you're playing well, that is) then don't worry about applying other techniques you read about on this forum, just practice YOUR game.

-Andrew
 
ok, thx for both replys Tracy and andrew :) exactly what i wanted to know. I thought of the same, but wasnt sure as im a new player. Maybe it was just a long tirm investment or something. Ill just continue playing my roney O sulivan style. Fast without thinking. (only checking on paterns and outcome of a shot)
 
Solartje said:
ok, thx for both replys Tracy and andrew :) exactly what i wanted to know. I thought of the same, but wasnt sure as im a new player. Maybe it was just a long tirm investment or something. Ill just continue playing my roney O sulivan style. Fast without thinking. (only checking on paterns and outcome of a shot)
Click to expand...
I think after a shot is missed, using the knowledge to figure what may have gone wrong, so that you can learn from it, is OK. Actually, it is very good to learn why something went wrong, eventually your subconscious mind will learn to correct for that as well.

Tracy
 
It Takes Time For The Medicine To Work

I went thru the same thing in 99 after I went to CueTech with randyg. It will all come together eventually. Practice when you practice and play your game when competing.
Purdman:cool:
 
RSB-Refugee said:
Solly,
Sometimes when I read threads about squirt, or throw, my game may suffer a little. I think the cause is double compensation. Compensating both consciously and subconsciously. Knowing why is OK, but try not to dwell on these things and see if it goes better.

Tracy
Click to expand...
Ultimately, no matter how much technical jargon we apply to our game it has everything to do with 'feel'. The best way for me is to gain knowledge of systems for kicking, banking, and just an overall knowledge to better my chances of winning. The rest is instinct. It has been my experience when I find myself in dead stroke that I am relying on my natural ability with an overall knowledge of the game. So what I am saying is if it ain't broke don't fix it. Only when you find your game has plateaued and you don't feel like your going to get any better should you start picking the mechanics of your style apart. Remember there is a relationship between how much preparation you do and how far your game goes.
 
I think your experience is pretty common Solly.

For some, studying systems and applying them is just not their thing. For others who are willing to think hard and practice hard, they can adapt well to various systems and learn to incorporate them smoothly into their games.

You may be very reliable on 95% of the shots you play. But maybe the 5% you struggle with can be improved significantly with systems or simply a better understanding of what is going on.

Another aspect is that there maybe an additional 10% of shot options available to you that you don't currently apply to your game, that if you could play much better, you could incorporate. An example may be playing some longish shot with more side english to acquire a new set of positional paths.

If such a shot can be transfered from 80% to 95% makeability, then you start creating new high percentage routes for making outs.

If you work hard enough, a lot of new shots will come into your game and they will feel as natural as your old game. Just takes a while to calm all those new ideas in your head and get down to making the OB and getting whitey where you want it to go.
 
Solartje said:
now my question: Yes i know im a natural player. But is all the things i read and learn, something that will pay off in a long time, but something that screws up your game in a short time (5 months?). .
Click to expand...

In my opinion, if you apply the theory and practice, it can help in the long run.

Anectdote, when I first learned about squirt, it was Grady Matthews who showed me. None of you are going to accuse Grady of being a technical mumbo jumbo geek. He's a player's player and plays as much by feel as the next player. But, in that one lesson on squirt (he called it deflection), he upped my game by many levels.

Upon understanding as best I can what squirt is, it saved me years of trial and self-abuse. I don't have to say "avoid inside english because it's hard," or some such thing.

So, you don't know what you don't know, until you know it. Any truthful knowledge can be of help. That's why IMO, it's important to discuss these topics on these boards. How you apply it is a different ballgame. Theory and knowledge doesn't substitute for practice and execution; it's should be supplemental.

And of course, if you're thinking about theory when you are in actual competition, you're thinking about the wrong things.

Fred
 
Solartje said:
hiya all,

ive been wondering something.
Click to expand...

Dick Leonard wrote somewhere in a post that when he incorporated something new into his game or changed something about his game, he would stay away from competitive play for two weeks to burn it in. There's a reason for that. It takes about 2 or 3 weeks, for most people, of practice to "change a habit", or make a new concept part of your natural game.

What happens on here and other forums is that we see new concepts, new ideas, EVERY DAY. If we tried to incorporate all of them into our games, we'd be in a constant practice mode and we'd never just fall off in our natural games. Add to that that you have to sort through all of the opinions and decide which ones are legitimate and which ones are myth or BS! How do we know? Well, it's hard to know. (NOT POINTING FINGERS AT ANYONE)

Solution? Well, either take everything on here as a grain of salt and just have fun talking about it, OR, once in awhile take one of those tidbits that you feel is really beneficial and incorporate it into your game IN PRACTICE until it's burned in and becomes part of your natural game. By natural game, I mean your instinctive or subconcious game. You said that when you're in dead punch, your "mind is totally BLANK". Well, that's not completely true. Your conscious mind is at rest... IT is blank, but your subconscious mind is thinking, considering, calculating. That's where you have to take your game and if you take every piece of advice, even if you sort through and take only the GREAT advice from the forum, then you'd have to stay at the practice table for the rest of your life trying to get those concepts burned into your game.

So, if you find something about your game that you feel is really lacking, then work on that, either through advice on here or from another source, but if you try everything new you see on here, you'll never have that quiet conscious mind.

Later,
Bob
 
Solly,

Just play your game the way you feel COMFORTABLE with. Anything you read here or elsewhere that you find interesting try in practice or when playing for fun. DON'T use anything different in competition until you're real comfortable with it. Also don't overthink shots because of something that you read on the forums. Your success so far seems to be a result of "natural ability", embrace that, use it, kick their butts in the next tournament.;)

Terry
 
well ill take all the advice i read on THIS post, and use it and dump the rest : dont think on consious level about AZB.

But i must admit, as there is SO many things discussed every day, some VERY interesting, when i first joined AZB, i felt like: OMG?!!! and i thought i new alot about ballgames. SO many things i never think about, I never knew it had a technical explenation. (things like deflection etc, i thought it was my crappy karaoke tables, thinks like running englisch in rail kicks i thought it was the crappy cussions, etc .) It felt like a GOLD mine of information was open to me, making me ALOT better, but seems i dont need to become better with information, just by practising. 4H of practice does alot more then to read 4h of post on AZB.

Thx for all the advices, ill just stay sillly solly 4EVER!!!
 
Solartje said:
4H of practice does alot more then to read 4h of post on AZB.
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Very true, as long as you are practicing the right things the right way.
Knowledge without practice is useless...practice without knowledge isn't much better.
Steve
 
pooltchr said:
Knowledge without practice is useless...practice without knowledge isn't much better.
Click to expand...


I know it's not so cut-and-dry, but nobody becomes their best without practice. The reverse statement (nobody becomes their best without knowledge) IMO isn't true. So, practice without knowledge isn't a bad thing, with caveats of course. But, it's not doom and gloom by a long shot.

Practice and playing are paramount. Knowledge is a supplement, not the main course. I think many members who read and complain about the theory-based posts may not realize that the theory-based posters believe in these statements more than they know.

Fred
 
I have found that there is a process I go through when learning new things.

-I think about my shots and make them (after a bit of practice) trying out the new technique.

-Then I transition for the "thinking about the shot" to the "automatically making the shot" mode. This is when I will go into a slump and play terrible.

-Then the shot becomes "automatic", I don't think about it, and I play better than ever.

So I think there is a price to pay when learning new things. And I have been learning lots of stuff the last couple of years. Now I am playing better than ever. (A couple of weeks of intensive practice has got my game back after my summer break.)

It also helps me to just learn/work on *one* new thing at a time. Work on just that one new thing for maybe a month. And while practicing or playing for fun, if I see that shot come up, I will shoot the shot instead of something else. This may cost me the game, but after a month or so, I have that shot down pretty good (or have learned that it is a low percentage shot and know to avoid it if possible).

Being one who has "learned all I can" about the game and various shots, I feel that I am winning many games now because of this knowledge.

Take one thing for example. I learned how to tell if a cut shot is possible or not. (Draw 90 degree line to OB path to pocket and CB must be outside that line.) Well I have made hundreds of balls using this knowledge. My instinct says I can't make the ball. But my knowledge says I can. So I try and I make the cut shot. I see other people banking these shots and missing. So my knowledge gives me an advantage over the other guy.
 
theory has general application, but since we are all different, those book wrters have no idea what you shoot like.

practice is better.
 
Solartje said:
ok, thx for both replys Tracy and andrew :) exactly what i wanted to know. I thought of the same, but wasnt sure as im a new player. Maybe it was just a long tirm investment or something. Ill just continue playing my roney O sulivan style. Fast without thinking. (only checking on paterns and outcome of a shot)
Click to expand...

It is only naturall, after you make a change that your game will suffer for sometime. Its like with buying a new car. You can't just get in hit the pedal to the medal and roll off. You have to let all the components to worm up before they can operate properly. The same thing here, lets say that you have change the lenght of your bridge, which in result affect your arm and basicly your whole stance. At this point this is something new to you, something that you didn't used to. Consequence will be, that your game will suffer to the point when you get comfortable or work your way out with changes that you make. Try to go to a pool school for 3 days and you will descover that you are learning from the beginning.
My advice is this: always work on 2 changes at the time that are conected in some way.
 
Cornerman said:
I know it's not so cut-and-dry, but nobody becomes their best without practice. The reverse statement (nobody becomes their best without knowledge) IMO isn't true. So, practice without knowledge isn't a bad thing, with caveats of course. But, it's not doom and gloom by a long shot.

Practice and playing are paramount. Knowledge is a supplement, not the main course. I think many members who read and complain about the theory-based posts may not realize that the theory-based posters believe in these statements more than they know.

Fred
Click to expand...

Fred,
I see what you mean, but if you are practicing the wrong things or doing things the wrong way, then you are just getting better at doing the wrong things the wrong way.
Steve
 
The old saying goes, "Practice makes perfect."

A newer and more accurate saying goes, "Perfect practice makes perfect."

My addition to this is "Knowledge of theory makes perfect practice."
 
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