Think I need to change my break

Texas Carom Club said:
Maybe you need how to learn how to break
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It seems to me you might be pretty hard on your equipment, after seeing your cue stick in the JB case thread. I have seen people pound the ball on breaks with never an issue, which makes me wonder what you are doing to your equipment.
 
Colonel said:
Well, Pros really don’t play 8 ball. They will once a year in the World 8 ball championships to attempt to pad their earnings but as soon as the event is over they will return to the other disciplines of the game and relegate 8 ball to the people who play it, league and recreational players so your reference to “pros break speed” really doesn’t correlate.
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I don't understand your logic. Because pros only play 8-ball once a year (that's your claim; can you prove pros play 8 only once a year?), being pros, there's no correlation to "pros break speed"? Aren't the pros who play 8-ball, whether once or many times, pros when they play 8?
 
dquarasr said:
I wish I knew how this is done.

I’ve been stuck at 14.5 - 15.5 MPH with a 19 oz cue / hard tip, usually dry. Any attempt at going harder and no one, including me, knows where the CB will go (assuming it stays in the same zip code of the table.)

I recently purchased a 25 oz break/jump cue with a phenolic tip and I’m at 16.5 - 17.0 with a nice, long smooth stroke. I’m mostly parking the CB mid-table and I am making balls, on 8-and 9-footers. (Haven’t tried much on 7s.)

I suppose if that’s the case, I don’t need any more speed. But I'm working on it, trying to slowly increase speed without losing the rock.
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Heavier cues don't lead to a faster break.

You can swing a ligter cue at higher steeds.
17.5 or 18 will work better.
Get a dedicated break cue.

Work on good fundamentals and follow through...don't just try to murder the cueball. When your form is better, ramp it up.
Study the break...all the types of breaks and experiment to see what works for you.
 
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SBC said:
Heavier cues don't lead to a faster break.

You can swing a ligter cue at higher steeds.
17.5 or 18 will work better.
Get a dedicated break cue.

Work on good fundamentals and follow through...don't just try to murder the cueball. When your formal is better, ramp it up.
Study the break...all the types of breaks and experiment to see what works for you.
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I’ve done over 1000 10b practice breaks
You get more speed with a good swing and follow through than you do when you try to pound it , all that does is lower your accuracy
 
Willowbrook Wolfy said:
Kind of. I was bored so I was playing with the predator Break Speed app one day. My normal break was around 21 mph. The 8 didn’t move much. It started moving around 23 mph. That’s breaking from the middle straight through the rack. The only time I ever make the eight on the break is when I hit it as hard as I can.
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Breaking is <much> more about where you hit head ball than how hard you hit the head ball.
That is; the break is more about precision than power.
 
Willowbrook Wolfy said:
Ah. This one was a viper cue with phenolic joint. I had an extra Viper butt once the first one broke. But now it is making more sense why the pin bent on the Joss with the phenolic joint I was using before-twice. Maybe phenolic sucks! Never had any issues with a stainless to phenolic or a one piece. Ruined one that was wood to wood once.

watched that color of money break again after whoever had mentioned it. Well my cue looks like that in the middle of the break. Maybe even worse than that but is off the table by the end of the follow through. Might be better to leave it down instead of popping it back up and putting all that spring effect stress on the joint. But in reality, with a straight stroke, the deflection of the cue plus the angle of the cue when breaking with any bottom is going to send the cue into the cloth automatically. I don’t think many people realize the cue deflects downward when using draw. Just like with sidespin. So it’s the natural line for the cue to bend on the table some when hitting hard with bottom and a big follow through.
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Seems like you need a decently tight grip on the cue and to push down to make the stick bend. Similar to the shaft deflecting downward, if you keep a loose grip (which I'm guessing anyone hitting 20+ mph has a fairly not-very-tight grip), it seems the cue would bounce back up off the table. Understand why people press the cue down into the table to make sure they're following through and finishing the stroke, but it seems like kind of a deliberate act that happens well after the hit.
 
Try this. Clean the table especially in front of the break area. Chalk good and break hard. Check for the cue chalk mark on the cloth. If it is close to where the cue ball started and goes long, you may be putting too much down pressure on the cloth. A good side view video could prove this is breaking your cues.

I find that a little hop on the cue ball gives a better break.
 
Tennesseejoe said:
Try this. Clean the table especially in front of the break area. Chalk good and break hard. Check for the cue chalk mark on the cloth. If it is close to where the cue ball started and goes long, you may be putting too much down pressure on the cloth. A good side view video could prove this is breaking your cues.

I find that a little hop on the cue ball gives a better break.
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Yeah glad you mentioned the “hop”. mine hops twice on a 9’. Lines on home cloth are
— — -1. The first line is the cue on the cloth and is about 8” long. 2nd and 3rd are the cb. Seems kind of crazy that it hops at all with draw on it
 
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oscargrouch said:
Seems like you need a decently tight grip on the cue and to push down to make the stick bend. Similar to the shaft deflecting downward, if you keep a loose grip (which I'm guessing anyone hitting 20+ mph has a fairly not-very-tight grip), it seems the cue would bounce back up off the table. Understand why people press the cue down into the table to make sure they're following through and finishing the stroke, but it seems like kind of a deliberate act that happens well after the hit.
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Nah, nor really. The bend really comes from a loop bridge trapping the shaft low and a raising up of the body and grip hand in the follow through. You can be as loose as you can get and still keep the cue in your hand and it will bend the shaft with that type of get up move. Busty gets a decent amount of bend before he lets his bridge hand lift off the table. If he glued it to the table the bend would be obscene and we all know he loose af.

 
All of this seems overkill. I can snap just my wrist and make the balls spread out just as well as all of this. The balls cannot travel more than 100 inches from where they start. If they go around the table three times and stop in the middle of the table, they are only 10-20 inches from where they start. What good does all of the traveling do for your game? While there is a chance more balls go in off of crazy kisses, that also applies to the cue ball The pros control their break and try to put the one ball where they want it (side pocket) or the corner ball where they want it, depending on the table, cloth, and racking mechanism.
 
Colonel said:
Well, Pros really don’t play 8 ball. They will once a year in the World 8 ball championships to attempt to pad their earnings but as soon as the event is over they will return to the other disciplines of the game and relegate 8 ball to the people who play it, league and recreational players so your reference to “pros break speed” really doesn’t correlate.

In other disciplines “pros” break speed generally varies. Back in the day before players really started dissecting the break, all Pros attempted to break “as hard as possible”, I.E. Wade Crane, Tony Ellin, Busti, Larry Nevel. Things changed though, players started studying the break more, more importantly racking templates came into being and as a result Pros attempting to make certain balls and play position on others vary their break speeds to achieve the results they desired. Templates really changed it as balls tend to “hop out” of a template at higher speeds, clump together and not spread as well. Lower speeds lend to balls “rolling out” of the template and giving a better layout. Given this, they came to understand you can “over hit” the break and they dial it down to get the results desired instead of just smashing the 💩 out of it and hoping for the best.

The fact that by your own admission of being fascinated by making the 8 on the break, that you’ve broken 1 butt, 1shaft, and bent the pin at the joint on a 3rd cue, that irrelevant of these multiple “incidents” you remain firmly convinced that the break is about high speed and power. The truth is that an effective break is more about timing than anything else. As your previous incidents have done nothing to dissuade you to change your break I imagine nothing you read here will dissuade you either. So hey brother, whatever you can afford. I will leave you with this, the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result. Good luck 🍀
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I like the insight Colonel. It’s actually just a matter of my twisted sense of humor that takes over. APA has turned into a bit of a joke for me this past year and I think it’s funny that I can just smash the break and pop the 8 in when I feel like it. I see all these APA players breaking for the 8 and never getting any B&R’s because they can’t handle the table when the 8 doesn’t fall. My break makes balls and leaves a nice spread. But I can juice it and make the 8 when I feel like it. Plus 30% of the time I just B&R so the break doesn’t matter much. I also have a 9 ball break that makes the 9 ball 1-8 times on avg. Too bad that doesn’t count in many tournaments anymore. Guess you can say if nothing else is good about my game I know how to win games fast

Anyway. My break has always been on the strong side. And I’m an all or nothing guy. You better be a stone cold killer if you want some control from me on my break. If you aren’t that good there is no point in me making the effort to break for real and squat the CB. I can do it when I want to. It’s not as much fun.
 
dquarasr said:
I wish I knew how this is done.

I’ve been stuck at 14.5 - 15.5 MPH with a 19 oz cue / hard tip, usually dry. Any attempt at going harder and no one, including me, knows where the CB will go (assuming it stays in the same zip code of the table.)

I recently purchased a 25 oz break/jump cue with a phenolic tip and I’m at 16.5 - 17.0 with a nice, long smooth stroke. I’m mostly parking the CB mid-table and I am making balls, on 8-and 9-footers. (Haven’t tried much on 7s.)

I suppose if that’s the case, I don’t need any more speed. But I'm working on it, trying to slowly increase speed without losing the rock.
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Why?? A smash doesn't guarantee a good spread. Just open em up well and you can do that just fine without slamming shit around, trust your stroke and take care of business. A decent break can be had with the speeds your talking about. If you're not getting good separation at those speeds, that's a different critter altogether.
 
Willowbrook Wolfy said:
See now. This is where I’d like a better explanation. I get you can get the eight ball moving. But if you don’t need to kill it on breaks why do all the pros average around a 20mph break speed? There has to be a reason for it. Or they would break softer. So that’s where my disconnect comes in on breaks. Or when talking about breaking. People can say 16 or 18 mph is great but why are the pros breaking at 20 then?
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Bcuz they can. Lol.
 
Willowbrook Wolfy said:
See now. This is where I’d like a better explanation. I get you can get the eight ball moving. But if you don’t need to kill it on breaks why do all the pros average around a 20mph break speed? There has to be a reason for it. Or they would break softer. So that’s where my disconnect comes in on breaks. Or when talking about breaking. People can say 16 or 18 mph is great but why are the pros breaking at 20 then?
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I was talking about just moving the 8.

Outside of APA nobody plays a rule set where an 8 on the break wins...
 
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