Thorsten Hohmann - Cue Lab Shot Diagram iOS APP

K

Kjackxon

Active member
HI
Awhile back I was able to use this amazing tool for plotting out billiard shot patterns. It was an iOS app that has since been removed from the public domain.

Can someone help with locating, or recommend another option.
Going to their website or the app store is useless.
 
I think it’s long gone.

A popular and free option now is https://pad.chalkysticks.com/ - but the balls are slightly bigger than they should be for a 9-foot table, and it’s difficult to use on a mobile browser.

I wish there was an app that had proper dimensions and also showed the angle in degrees between two lines. The killer feature would be to show actual tracks based on a good physics model like Virtual Pool, based on CB contact point and CB speed (and show the CB contact point and speed on the diagram).
 
Yeah I agree with that.
It’s possible that some mobile developer will figure out how to better integrate Ai technology into making a better diagraming tool. I've used both Virtual Pool and Poolshots, and both are excellent in very limited areas. The biggest limitation is in the mobile development area.

Mobile engineers design, develop, and implement software programs for smartphones and other mobile devices. At this point, there’s not enough interest or tools to make this a reality. I'll eventually go back to using Poolshots.org
 
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We have the technology to handle the front-end/back-end development and host services.
We're limited by space/layout and startup cost(s).

Virtual Pool can integrate with Facebook (Mac) and it has a competitive module. For now, I screenshot and post drills into my notebook. As far as Thorsten’s website - Maybe a PM will wake him up.
 
kling&allen said:
I’ve been lazy, but I think a mobile port of this would be great to easily diagram a table layout from a photo;

github.com

GitHub - sgrieve/PoolTable: Using openCV to identify pool balls on a pool table.

Using openCV to identify pool balls on a pool table. - sgrieve/PoolTable
github.com github.com

Edit: this looks even more promising:

blog.roboflow.com

Pool Table Analytics Using Object Detection

In this guide, Abirami Vina shows how to build a pool table analytics system with object detection.
blog.roboflow.com blog.roboflow.com
Click to expand...
There is an app in the works, I happen to know the crew behind it, and the functionality is unbelievable. It is based on computer vision and AI. The tests showed it can even track which ball was hit first on "split" hits, or whether the cue ball hit the cushion before the object ball or vice versa.
Looks very very promising.
 
Vahmurka said:
There is an app in the works, I happen to know the crew behind it, and the functionality is unbelievable. It is based on computer vision and AI. The tests showed it can even track which ball was hit first on "split" hits, or whether the cue ball hit the cushion before the object ball or vice versa.
Looks very very promising.
Click to expand...

That’s great. I think the technology is there (as with the upcoming digiball), someone has to put it together

@Pubo : can you share more details on your method if you don’t mind?
 
kling&allen said:
That’s great. I think the technology is there (as with the upcoming digiball), someone has to put it together

@Pubo : can you share more details on your method if you don’t mind?
Click to expand...
There are a couple methods I know of :
1. My primary method is HSV color detection, which is quite basic because it only detects balls with solid colors. Tracking striped balls using HSV is difficult because the stripes wobble, and the ball might look completely different in the next frame.
I have a GitHub Page that's not updated for a long time. It contains some code that tracks a solid ball pretty well. https://github.com/PubohH/Billiard-Ball-Tracking

2. I recently found out After Effect's Motion Track feature. A simple illustration
I've not tested this on pool balls though.

3. I think the best way to do ball tracking is incorporating AI (along with traditional algorithms) to recognize, specifically, striped balls due to its changing appearances in a footage.

If I have time I'll try to make my method more suitable and robust for pool, maybe adding more thoughts on balls' collision and tracking multiple balls at the same time.

So far method 1 and 2 serve me well because I'm more interested in analyzing a single object at the moment.
 
Pubo said:
There are a couple methods I know of :
1. My primary method is HSV color detection, which is quite basic because it only detects balls with solid colors. Tracking striped balls using HSV is difficult because the stripes wobble, and the ball might look completely different in the next frame.
I have a GitHub Page that's not updated for a long time. It contains some code that tracks a solid ball pretty well. https://github.com/PubohH/Billiard-Ball-Tracking

2. I recently found out After Effect's Motion Track feature. A simple illustration
I've not tested this on pool balls though.

3. I think the best way to do ball tracking is incorporating AI (along with traditional algorithms) to recognize, specifically, striped balls due to its changing appearances in a footage.

If I have time I'll try to make my method more suitable and robust for pool, maybe adding more thoughts on balls' collision and tracking multiple balls at the same time.

So far method 1 and 2 serve me well because I'm more interested in analyzing a single object at the moment.
Click to expand...

Thanks Pubo. I played around with tho YOLO image model I linked above and it struggled with striped balls too as they vary so much based on rotation and lighting. If I have time I might try again with more training images.
 
Patrick Johnson said:
VP can be used to test and diagram shots too, with excellent physics. How do you think it's limited?

pj
chgo
Click to expand...
Haven't delved into the faults. For research, no interface would be the main problem. If coders could harness the modeling, then we'll see.
As is, it could have some real conditions presets. Over drawing the ball 200 feet with a half tip low is definitely not real.
 
kling&allen said:
I’ve been lazy, but I think a mobile port of this would be great to easily diagram a table layout from a photo;

github.com

GitHub - sgrieve/PoolTable: Using openCV to identify pool balls on a pool table.

Using openCV to identify pool balls on a pool table. - sgrieve/PoolTable
github.com github.com

Edit: this looks even more promising:

blog.roboflow.com

Pool Table Analytics Using Object Detection

In this guide, Abirami Vina shows how to build a pool table analytics system with object detection.
blog.roboflow.com blog.roboflow.com
Click to expand...

Just an update to my own post here, that image model on roboflow is really limited and its training database was restricted to a handful of top-down views from one pool table with green cloth, so it's not capable of being used to identify balls on blue cloth or tables, tables with different lighting, etc.
 
There’s great intel being shared in this thread. Yes - The mobile interface and modeling are the biggest challenges. I’m more interested in table setup and drawing paths (export) than actual game play. I know that Ai will catch up and offer more modeling tools - Sky is the limit don’t you think?
 
Has anyone tried the DrillRoom app? I work with the team behind it. It's an iOS app that uses AI to track ball positions and scores drills automatically. It has a drill editor, and allows capturing balls positions with the camera on a table – would love to hear your thoughts!
 
MechaSnowflake said:
Has anyone tried the DrillRoom app? I work with the team behind it. It's an iOS app that uses AI to track ball positions and scores drills automatically. It has a drill editor, and allows capturing balls positions with the camera on a table – would love to hear your thoughts!
Click to expand...

I downloaded it a while ago and it looked like it required a subscription to do anything. Has that changed?
 
I've successfully integrated although manually, the concept of using software to model billiard play/strategy.
I'm currently using:
- PoolShot Shot Diagram (Windows Surface)
- Virtual Pool VP4 3D Modeling (Macbook Pro)
- Tor Lowry (Online Shot Puzzles)

I'm not being smart, I’m just skilled enough to know what’s obviously out there and available. Without getting into detail, I can map out shot patterns, project the desired speed and direction, and actually see the expected outcome. I can take one of Tor’s puzzles, set the pattern up in VP4, and plot the strategy. I have a nearly 360-degree view of every shot. Amazing stuff if you can believe it.

I’ve learned quite a bit by breaking down pattern play. I've not by no means achieved the level of play that I could, being that I don't have access to a table and practice time. My ultimate goal is to utilize the availability of time and resources, and avoid unexpected outcomes.

I’ve added an image, as an example, the methodology of executing the 2nd ball break in 8 ball.
The second image represents how the cue ball direction can be predicted prior to the shot.
Final Note: This is not exact - That's why I’m still learning from the hard knocks and setbacks.
 

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