Thoughts Anyone?

Black Cat 5791

I get all the Breaks
Silver Member
Okay so I go down to the local Bar that I frequent get in line for last on one of the tables. While I was waiting for my turn I watched an older gentleman dispatch 4 players which he had been doing for a couple of hours at that point. So my turn comes up and he broke didn't make a ball I then proceeded to run the table only to get out of shape and have to play a defensive shot, got my remaining trouble ball out in the open and took a seat. He made a ball and missed a trap shot, I proceeded to make my remaining ball along with the 8 to win. This is where all the niceties ended.

I then went on to win 7 to 8 games, then came the match that brought me to making this post. I was playing a guy who is exclusively a Bar 8 Ball player, he did all the common tricks, and I countered in kind. On one particular exchange during the endgame I played a defensive shot on the 8 Ball, pinning the CB to his 10 Ball the only option that he had was to either make a shot and open up the table or attempt a defensive shot. What he chose to do was shoot the CB directly into the side pocket forcing me to technically make a kick because the 8 Ball was behind the head string. What I elected to do was bump the 8 Ball which was on the rail just behind the second diamond in the kitchen as they say closer to his 10 Ball that I had defensed him on just prior, to then surrender the table effectively loosing my turn but leaving him hooked. That's when all hell broke loose, this guy picked up the and proceeded to take BIH I stopped him and told him he can't do that, he then stated that I couldn't do what I did. Rather than allow him to cheat me I broke down my cue picked up the 8 and put it in the Pocket and told him he could have the game if it meant that much to him.

So, I'm over on the side talking to some other players some of whom had a different opinion, others felt the same way I did, this guy still upset though he is currently playing a game start yelling at me that I'm disturbing him while he's trying to shoot. He then proceeded to get up and start approaching me in a very hostile manner. Everything died down without incident, but my question is was I wrong?

Black Cat :cool:
 

nobcitypool

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I think you were wrong agreeing to play the game with bullshit rules which led to the dispute. It sounds like the rules you were playing were typical bar rules which doesn't allow for BIH anywhere on the table. Assuming that is correct, I see no issue with what you did. In fact, I would consider it rather clever. Obviously, your opponent didn't see things that way.

This situation you mentioned is a primary reason that I'm reluctant to play "standard" bar room rules 8 ball. Leads to way too many arguments.
 

NitPicker

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Okay so I go down to the local Bar that I frequent get in line for last on one of the tables. While I was waiting for my turn I watched an older gentleman dispatch 4 players which he had been doing for a couple of hours at that point. So my turn comes up and he broke didn't make a ball I then proceeded to run the table only to get out of shape and have to play a defensive shot, got my remaining trouble ball out in the open and took a seat. He made a ball and missed a trap shot, I proceeded to make my remaining ball along with the 8 to win. This is where all the niceties ended.

I then went on to win 7 to 8 games, then came the match that brought me to making this post. I was playing a guy who is exclusively a Bar 8 Ball player, he did all the common tricks, and I countered in kind. On one particular exchange during the endgame I played a defensive shot on the 8 Ball, pinning the CB to his 10 Ball the only option that he had was to either make a shot and open up the table or attempt a defensive shot. What he chose to do was shoot the CB directly into the side pocket forcing me to technically make a kick because the 8 Ball was behind the head string. What I elected to do was bump the 8 Ball which was on the rail just behind the second diamond in the kitchen as they say closer to his 10 Ball that I had defensed him on just prior, to then surrender the table effectively loosing my turn but leaving him hooked. That's when all hell broke loose, this guy picked up the and proceeded to take BIH I stopped him and told him he can't do that, he then stated that I couldn't do what I did. Rather than allow him to cheat me I broke down my cue picked up the 8 and put it in the Pocket and told him he could have the game if it meant that much to him.

So, I'm over on the side talking to some other players some of whom had a different opinion, others felt the same way I did, this guy still upset though he is currently playing a game start yelling at me that I'm disturbing him while he's trying to shoot. He then proceeded to get up and start approaching me in a very hostile manner. Everything died down without incident, but my question is was I wrong?

Black Cat :cool:

I don't know what rules you were playing. You say he scratched intentionally to force you to kick at the 8 from behind the head string, rather than receive BIH. Usually it's behind the line, or BIH, but not both. Only exception is scratching on the break with BIH rules, and you shoot behind the string. It sounds like you decided to take an illegal hit on the 8 to tie him up. I don't think BIH is correct but I don't think having to shoot where it lays after an illegal hit is correct either.
 

slide13

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Honestly, not sure I follow everything, but it sounds like you were playing "bar rules" where a foul resulted in BIH behind the headstring?

But then it sounds like the shot you play was contacting a ball that was also behind the headstring? As I understand such "rules", if you get BIH behind the headstring you must make contact with an OB below the headstring for it to be a legal shot. In which case he was right, you can't play that shot and he gets BIH above the headstring.

Or maybe I'm just completely misunderstanding what happened.
 

Black Cat 5791

I get all the Breaks
Silver Member
I think you were wrong agreeing to play the game with bullshit rules which led to the dispute. It sounds like the rules you were playing were typical bar rules which doesn't allow for BIH anywhere on the table. Assuming that is correct, I see no issue with what you did. In fact, I would consider it rather clever. Obviously, your opponent didn't see things that way.

This situation you mentioned is a primary reason that I'm reluctant to play "standard" bar room rules 8 ball. Leads to way too many arguments.

You are correct in your assessment, believe me I don't like playing Bar Rules but aside from on League Night I may not get many game situations. These guy's just won't play BIH, it's not that they don't understand they just won't play, so I have to beat them at there own game or not get much table time in.

Black Cat :cool:
 

Black Cat 5791

I get all the Breaks
Silver Member
Honestly, not sure I follow everything, but it sounds like you were playing "bar rules" where a foul resulted in BIH behind the headstring?

But then it sounds like the shot you play was contacting a ball that was also behind the headstring? As I understand such "rules", if you get BIH behind the headstring you must make contact with an OB below the headstring for it to be a legal shot. In which case he was right, you can't play that shot and he gets BIH above the headstring.

Or maybe I'm just completely misunderstanding what happened.

The only ball that I had left was the 8, rather than try a kick shot to hit the 8 which was behind the line I elected to tie the 8 up with his ball leaving the 8, the CB, and his OB on the side rail not leaving him a shot. I knew it was not a "legal shot" but in Bar Rules there is no penalty and definitely not BIH.

Black Cat :cool:
 

Dockter

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I'm confused to. Did you make a legal hit or no? If not he can take BIH behind the headstring. If you did I'm even more confused.

Bar rules I play if you foul I get bih behind the headstring or play it from where it is.
 

Dockter

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Not much good can come from playing seriously with those rules.

I played a small town league up until last year. I just did it to shoot with my grandpa. Everyone in that area plays bar rules therefore the league was bar rules. Take what you break and any foul is bih behind the headstring or play it from where it is. Makes the game tough at times and half the time players are better off fouling then playing a hit. The rules we played by though, as soon as he scratched you can leave the 8 ball where it is or spot it.
 

NitPicker

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
The only ball that I had left was the 8, rather than try a kick shot to hit the 8 which was behind the line I elected to tie the 8 up with his ball leaving the 8, the CB, and his OB on the side rail not leaving him a shot. I knew it was not a "legal shot" but in Bar Rules there is no penalty and definitely not BIH.

Black Cat :cool:

Whenever I've played "bar rules" or "straight 8", you either play illegal shots where they lay, or you can make your opponent shoot again. Fouling is always an option and can be used as a successful strategy, but no game I've played rewards the fouling player. It does work out sometimes though.
 

Black Cat 5791

I get all the Breaks
Silver Member
I played a small town league up until last year. I just did it to shoot with my grandpa. Everyone in that area plays bar rules therefore the league was bar rules. Take what you break and any foul is bih behind the headstring or play it from where it is. Makes the game tough at times and half the time players are better off fouling then playing a hit. The rules we played by though, as soon as he scratched you can leave the 8 ball where it is or spot it.

Around here you can't spot the last ball. I could have simply the CB to the other end of the Table effectively not leaving him a shot. I chose to bump the 8 which was behind the line, knowing that I would obviously turn the table over, and he would have to shoot the CB from where it was, not him get BIH at all Behind the Line or otherwise.

Black Cat :cool:
 

erhino41

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I played for years before I was old enough to go into a bar, so when I finally came around to learning bar rules I was disgusted people actually played that way. I almost got into a few fights because of them, and I'm not really a fighter. A table scratch usually does not warrant BIH most every bar I've play. I have come across people who will try to get away with whatever they can and claim that that is how they play around there. I have had players take BIH behind the line when I made a bad hit only to get mad later when I tried to take ball in hand on a bad hit. I have had players spot my slop balls only to get mad later when I tried to spot theirs. Moral of this story is I usually just say whatever and then I use my superior skill to get revenge in a "legal" manner. If I'm playing in a bar by bar rules I'm only playing for fun and arguing is no fun to me. If someone wants a win that way I'll give it to them then ask what they want to play the next rack for, playing call shot ball in hand and all that jazz. They will usually back down, making their "victory" all the smaller in the process.
 

Moet.1977

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Bih

You didn't shoot out of kichten so it's a foul. He gets ball in hand behide the line, same as you did when he scartched. Pretty simple. But any time drinking is a factor it's never simple.
 

LuckyStroke

Full Splic Addict
Silver Member
Hi Kevin. Good to hear from you. I hope all is well.

Here's the problem with bar rules. Everyone has a different interpretation of the rules. When someone asks me to play bar rules, I simply decline.

Ben
 

longhair

Boyd Porter-Reynolds
Silver Member
As I understand this situation and the rules you were using, the shot you shot is not just a foul, it is outside the game itself. You might as well use the 10 ball as a cueball or pick the 8 up with your hand. If I had to make a ruling (I would get out of it if I could) I would award him the game instead of just ball in hand.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

TheNewSharkster

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Okay so I go down to the local Bar that I frequent get in line for last on one of the tables. While I was waiting for my turn I watched an older gentleman dispatch 4 players which he had been doing for a couple of hours at that point. So my turn comes up and he broke didn't make a ball I then proceeded to run the table only to get out of shape and have to play a defensive shot, got my remaining trouble ball out in the open and took a seat. He made a ball and missed a trap shot, I proceeded to make my remaining ball along with the 8 to win. This is where all the niceties ended.

I then went on to win 7 to 8 games, then came the match that brought me to making this post. I was playing a guy who is exclusively a Bar 8 Ball player, he did all the common tricks, and I countered in kind. On one particular exchange during the endgame I played a defensive shot on the 8 Ball, pinning the CB to his 10 Ball the only option that he had was to either make a shot and open up the table or attempt a defensive shot. What he chose to do was shoot the CB directly into the side pocket forcing me to technically make a kick because the 8 Ball was behind the head string. What I elected to do was bump the 8 Ball which was on the rail just behind the second diamond in the kitchen as they say closer to his 10 Ball that I had defensed him on just prior, to then surrender the table effectively loosing my turn but leaving him hooked. That's when all hell broke loose, this guy picked up the and proceeded to take BIH I stopped him and told him he can't do that, he then stated that I couldn't do what I did. Rather than allow him to cheat me I broke down my cue picked up the 8 and put it in the Pocket and told him he could have the game if it meant that much to him.

So, I'm over on the side talking to some other players some of whom had a different opinion, others felt the same way I did, this guy still upset though he is currently playing a game start yelling at me that I'm disturbing him while he's trying to shoot. He then proceeded to get up and start approaching me in a very hostile manner. Everything died down without incident, but my question is was I wrong?

Black Cat :cool:



My only question is why didn't you make it BIH rules after you won the table? :)
 
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