Tip Shape- Nickel? Dime? Can I get a Penny Please?

[TwoRailDave]

I'm a little picky, but a dime is too much curve and I like a little more than a nickel. They are significantly different. I don't know why willard or someone

else hasn't come out with an intermediate size shaper. Maybe they have and I'm not aware of it because they didn't market it as such. I feel like many

would come to prefer this curvature. I'm tired of using my long trimmer to shape my tip only for it to get smashed in, forcing me to repeat the process

until a tip "settles in" to it's shape. Recently, when installing new tips for myself or others, I expedite the break-in process by dropping the

cue tip-down onto hard smooth concrete from about 7 inches about 20-25 times. I put a piece of paper down to prevent smashing dirt into my tip. I

shape it in the nickel willard and repeat a few more times. I then trim the mushroom and don't usually have to touch my tip for a very long time. I

also use the trimmer and it's not a huge deal at all, but a willard would be nice because it doesn't tear up the tip as much and its more even and

faster. Does anyone know of a dome-shaped tool that provides a curvature between nickel and dime?

 

[oldplayer]

at first i liked the dime shape, but now I prefer the "dome" shape of a "C" cup! :dance::clapping:

 

[Tramp Steamer]

You're obsessing here a little, Two Rail. If you can't play with a dime, or a nickel, there's no point in making change. You just can't play. :smile:

 

[arps]

I'm a little picky, but a dime is too much curve and I like a little more than a nickel.

i think i may have something.

the diameter of a nickel is 21.21mm; a dime is 17.91mm.

here in the Philippines, there's no access to a dime or a nickel. i have a couple here though. so one day, i was trying to compare these coins and i noticed that our local 25-centavo coin was in between the size of a dime and a nickel. after a quick google search, i found out that its diameter is 20.0mm.

i had an idea. I took a 3/4 PVC pipe ( the regular 3/4 PVC has 20.9mm inner diameter), and i cut it lengthwise, in half. this is what it looks like compared to the 25-centavo coin:

so i put strips of 220 grit sandpaper and double sided adhesive to the PVC, and i can estimate that the shape of the tip, using this "tip shaper" is close to (if not exact) the shape of a Philippine 25-centavo coin. here's a photo of the tool:

I've been using this tool for years now. i've made a lot of these and have given my friends this tool for free. try it.

 

[ENGLISH!]

Nice job arps.

I like do it yourself problem solvers.

Best Wishes,
Rick

 

[metallicane]

i think i may have something.

the diameter of a nickel is 21.21mm; a dime is 17.91mm.

here in the Philippines, there's no access to a dime or a nickel. i have a couple here though. so one day, i was trying to compare these coins and i noticed that our local 25-centavo coin was in between the size of a dime and a nickel. after a quick google search, i found out that its diameter is 20.0mm.

i had an idea. I took a 3/4 PVC pipe ( the regular 3/4 PVC has 20.9mm inner diameter), and i cut it lengthwise, in half. this is what it looks like compared to the 25-centavo coin:

so i put strips of 220 grit sandpaper and double sided adhesive to the PVC, and i can estimate that the shape of the tip, using this "tip shaper" is close to (if not exact) the shape of a Philippine 25-centavo coin. here's a photo of the tool:

I've been using this tool for years now. i've made a lot of these and have given my friends this tool for free. try it.

Nothing like a little ingenuity. Good job.

 

[Centerpunch]

A Mezz tip tool does have the in between radius you are looking for.

 

[I Got Lucky]

Very very neat Arps. I am never amazed by the ingenuity I see here in the Philippines on a daily basis.

What are the pros and cons of a nickel shape vs dime shape? I am under the impression that a dime shape would have less tip contact with the CB so one should be able to draw better. Am I correct???

 

[Bavafongoul]

OMG.....pass the coins please..........WOW......what's the problem here?

Buy some sandpaper and shape the tip anyway you like it to be. If you need a specific U.S. coin, or any other currency, to guide you on how to shape your tip, more likely your problem is poor eyesight than the shape of your cue tip. Just grab the right grit sandpaper and shape your tip the way you want it to be.

p.s Dime shape tips can spin the cue ball more which is handy in billiards where "Horizontal" English is used on virtually every shot. You will not see many billiard players using a nickel shape tip. The nickel shape doesn't allow you to stroke the outside perimeter of the cue ball as well as the dime shape does due to its more rounded shape. The nickel shape provides more control on "Vertical English" cue ball strokes than a dime shape.

 

[JohnPT]

The biggest surprise you'll get playing with a penny shaped tip versus a dime or a nickel is you'll shoot about the same ha ha.

 

[TwoRailDave]

OMG.....pass the coins please..........WOW......what's the problem here?

Buy some sandpaper and shape the tip anyway you like it to be. If you need a specific U.S. coin, or any other currency, to guide you on how to shape your tip, more likely your problem is poor eyesight than the shape of your cue tip.

hmmm. Thank-you to those that gave helpful responses. I'll probably go buy a mezz tool. Thanks Centerpunch

 

[joelpope]

OMG.....pass the coins please..........WOW......what's the problem here?

Buy some sandpaper and shape the tip anyway you like it to be. If you need a specific U.S. coin, or any other currency, to guide you on how to shape your tip, more likely your problem is poor eyesight than the shape of your cue tip. Just grab the right grit sandpaper and shape your tip the way you want it to be.

p.s Dime shape tips can spin the cue ball more which is handy in billiards where "Horizontal" English is used on virtually every shot. You will not see many billiard players using a nickel shape tip. The nickel shape doesn't allow you to stroke the outside perimeter of the cue ball as well as the dime shape does due to its more rounded shape. The nickel shape provides more control on "Vertical English" cue ball strokes than a dime shape.

??? the "side" english effect is different then the "vertical" english effect due to tip shape

a sphere has equal radius & really doesn't know up from over

kind of like a thermos bottle... keeps hot stuff hot & keeps cold stuff cold, how does it know which to do?

hard to understand the concept

 

[Bavafongoul]

The shape of the tip largely determines how much of the tip surface area can achieve frictional contact on the spherical cue ball.........the less the dome shape, the larger the surface area becomes for the very center of the tip shape. It's straight forward geometry. As you move the aim point on the cue ball's spherical surface to the outside perimeter of the cue ball, i.e., horizontal English application, you are able to apply your stroke more effectively and as well as further towards the outside edge of the cue ball, with the more rounded shape of a dime tip versus the less domed nickel shaped tip. Admittedly, the difference in surface area becomes very small, and to some might seem infinitesimal but that's not the case. Think of it 10-20-30% more cue tip contact surface area of a very small number to start with. It could be 1/100 an inch, or metrically .1 or .16mm more but that can be the difference in miscuing or stroking the ball successfully.

Yes, tip shape does matter and if you like to use a lot of rails for cue ball shape versus keeping the cue ball in the center of the table or using only one rail like with center ball tangent line positioning, then the shape of the tip does become important. The dime shape is more disposed to spinning the cue ball......and I'm not saying you cannot spin the cue ball with a nickel shaped tip.............the nickel tip doesn't allow you to spin the cue ball as much as a dime shape tip........that's pure geometry.

And for a 1/2 table, one rail shape approach, the nickel tip is better designed for "Center Ball" cue strokes and Vertical English applications. Not saying you cannot apply center ball or draw the ball if the tip is dime versus nickel shaped. What I'm saying a good pool player can just about do anything regardless of the tip shape and that mechanically.....from simply a geometrical design viewpoint......the nickel shape is intended to play differently than a dime shaped tip with some types of shots. And for the beginner or novice player, that can be a important consideration.

If anyone wishes to debate this, I suggest they talk with a cue-maker like Richard Black. In case you are unaware, Richard Black makes his own tips and in my opinion, Richard's tips are the best in the world. So he's more than just an extraordinarily talented cue-maker. Mr. Black is also well versed with leather tip differences which is why he decided years ago to make his own tips unlike other cue-makers that use brand names tips made by 3rd parties. Richard will confirm for you what the difference is with nickel & dime shaped tips which is why he checks with his clients what shape tip they want on a cue. Personally, I think I'm in the minority since I play with nickel shaped tips but I'd venture to guess that the majority of cue-makers will deliver a cue with a dime shaped tip unless a customer specified otherwise. But there is a difference in how the two differently shaped tips play.

Here's a simple test......get your hands on a Rempe Training Ball........use the advanced side........hit the cue ball with a nickel shaped tip cue and a dime shaped cue.........practice with the cue ball alone or use it shooting pre-set difficult cut shots, or 3-4 rail position shape...............learn the farthest outside contact point you can successfully stroke the cue ball with horizontal English and still achieve control of the cue ball. Ascertain for yourself where it is that you start to lose control of the cue ball or start to miscue. The dime shaped tip will always allow you to stroke the cue ball with more Horizontal English than a nickel shaped tip. You will see the chalk mark on the Rempe Training Cue Ball and plainly see you can apply more Horizontal English with the dime shape versus the nickel shape.........the proof will be staring you in the face with the chalk marks.

 

[arps]

OMG.....pass the coins please..........WOW......what's the problem here?

Buy some sandpaper and shape the tip anyway you like it to be. If you need a specific U.S. coin, or any other currency, to guide you on how to shape your tip, more likely your problem is poor eyesight than the shape of your cue tip. Just grab the right grit sandpaper and shape your tip the way you want it to be.

that's how i did it before - freestyle. i get a rough grit sandpaper and sand the tip the way i want it. and then i tried taping the sandpaper to a flat acrylic sheet - kinda like a file. and it made shaping easier. i actually became pretty good at sanding/shaping tips because my dad builds scale models; i help him and we deal with hand/manual sanding a lot. the problem with "freestyle" sanding is shape consistency. the reason i made this tool (the PVC tube) is because I re-tip often and i do a lot for my friends too. with this tool, i can shape in about 3-5 minutes and maintain shape consistency. here's a sample,

 

[3andstop]

Hmm, I always felt that if you had around a 12mm or larger tip, if you shaped it to a dime size you did it wrong. I don't know how you can get a pointier tip with a larger mm without beveling the sides of the tip too much.

 

[arps]

Hmm, I always felt that if you had around a 12mm or larger tip, if you shaped it to a dime size you did it wrong. I don't know how you can get a pointier tip with a larger mm without beveling the sides of the tip too much.

Good point. A good practice would be to shape the tip based on its diameter - perhaps dime if the tip is below 12mm then nickel if it's more than 12mm (or something like that). Someone also told me before that the shape may be based on the hardness of your tip.

 

[RRfireblade]

They been making these things for like 30 years. Run about a dollar or two.

You can bend them to any shape you like, I've got drawers full of them if you can' find one I send you one.

 

[ENGLISH!]

I've spun the ball for 46 yrs. & out at the miscue limits.

I have always used soft Elk Master & Blue Diamond tips.

I like them 'flat' with the edges just softly rounded.

One should keep the compression of the tip in mind relative to the angle of hit.

IMO if the tip is too rounded you lose depth for the cue to compress. To me, less compression means less contact time. To me, less contact time can mean less spin for a given stroke speed.

Naturally all of the above are just my opinions.

 

[Scaramouche]

Please be advised that Canadians do not understand "penny".
All of ours have been collected and sent to the scrap heap.

Therefore, in the interests of North American clear communication, please, American pool players, speak in terminology Canucks understand, like dime and nickel - coins that we still use.

Thank you

 

[DaveK]

Please be advised that Canadians do not understand "penny".
All of ours have been collected and sent to the scrap heap.

Shhhhh ... don't tell the mint ... I have a couple under the rails of my table :thumbup:

Dave <-- also has some old large pennies, but doesn't think they'd be a good model

PS Maybe some need one of these : http://www.starrett.com/metrology/p...ols/Fixed-Gage-Standards/Radius-Gages/S167CHZ