"Tips" of english

[Patrick Johnson]

That is another valid route to take; however, the word "tip" is already widely accepted as a unit of measure. The problem is, that unit has not been standardized.

When you hear the word "inch" or "foot" you know the distance being referred to because it has been standardized. Since the word "tip" already exists and is used regularly, I think the best route to take is to standardize the distance it measures, if for no other reason than because words shouldn't have arbitrary meanings whenever possible, and especially not units of measure.

While creating a new term or appending to an existing one isn't a bad solution, it still leaves the word "tip" undefined.

And, what distance would the new term measure? Since that distance, whether it be a static or relative unit, would still have to be defined, why not just assign it to the existing term which is currently lacking a standard definition?

Because it won't stick. Everybody won't start using the word the way we want just because our self-appointed committee says to. It has to have some natural reason to gain common usage.

There is no term that fits that bill, so I think the obvious answer is to use short descriptive terms that everybody already knows the meaning of: like "1/4 maximum" or "1/2 maximum" or "maximum" english. These terms are short and easy to say, easily understood without explanation, and are already in the language.

I don't think the meaningless term "tip of english" is worth saving. We should just stop using it and let it fade away.

pj
chgo

 

[Patrick Johnson]

Patrick...I'm the one who came up with the 3mm/one-eighth inch description (almost 30 yrs ago), not Cue Tech.

Cool. I didn't know that.

Anyone who takes the time to do what pooltcher suggested (shoot a shot, and notice the size of the chalk mark), will know what the size is. Just because someone doesn't 'agree' with it, doesn't change the facts.

The size of the contact area isn't in question. The question is whether that's a definition of "tip of english" that can make it into universal usage. I don't think so because it's not a definition that's readily suggested by its name. It doesn't sound like what it is.

I wouldn't mind being proven wrong - any term that comes into universal usage is OK with me. I just don't have much confidence that this will be it.

pj
chgo

 

[12squared]

Forget "tips" - it's a term that nobody agrees on and confuses everybody.

Look at the circle around a number on an object ball - it's about a half ball in width (halfway from center to edge on each side). That's about how far you can actually hit offcenter without miscueing.

When you're actually contacting the cue ball at the outer edge of this "safe zone" you're contacting near the inside edge of your tip, so most of your tip is outside the circle. The contact point on your tip starts at the tip's center (for centerball hits) and moves gradually out to the tip's edge as your tip moves out to the edge of the "safe zone" circle. This is one reason "tips" and other artificial measurements are misleading and confusing, and why it only makes sense to think of where you actually contact the cue ball.

Thinking of where you're actually contacting the cue ball within the "english safe zone" helps you to be more precise with your tip placement and also gives you a way to describe it precisely.

I like using the image of a clockface to describe which direction from center your tip is placed ("1 o'clock" = top right; "8 o'clock" = bottom left, etc.) and fractions or percentages of maximum to describe how far from centerball toward the edge of the safe zone circle. For instance, "maximum 3 o'clock english" = the righthand edge of the safe zone circle at the equator. "1/2 maximum 7:00 o'clock english" = draw with a little left english halfway to the safe zone circle's edge.

pj
chgo

In the world of three cushion, I also used the clock face as PJ described. 1 o'clock was 1 tip, 2 o'c was 2 tips, 3 o'c was 3 tips, & 4o'c was 4 tips & the reverse for the other side. I was taught that each "tip" was the measure of spread the cueball would move after hitting the rail. i.e. shooting the length of the table (short rail to short rail) 1 tip was a one diamond spread, 2 tips was a 2 diamond spread, 3 tips was a 3 diamond spread and 4 tips was about 3 1/2 diamond spread.

So to me "tips' of english doesn't have a mathmatical factor as what fraction I am from center of the cueball, it's actually a clock that results in how the cue ball will react off the cushion. All spreads are cut in half when shooting the short way on the table since it's half the distance.

Pool tables tend to react differently and the spreads are wider. I would suggest experimenting with your stroke to find what your spreads would be but stay with a "tip" system that is repeatable so you can learn to rely on it. And don't forget that speed plays a part in this too as well as newness of cloth and balls. Once you have found your "tips", you would experiment in different conditions to see how you would adjust to get the same spread. Those would be your new "tips" of english for those conditions so you cna get the cue ball where you want.

I hope this helps a little. (PJ's a smart guy and I agree with his discussion on where to hit safely on the outside of the cue).

Dave

 

[Skeezicks]

And can we all agree to define the tip offset as the distance from the center of the ball out to the center of the contact patch and not out to the center of the tip?

No?

OK