Tipton's loose racks.

[Rich R.]

That's a good one!

I'll have to look it up in my rule book at home. It's under the section for Instructions for Referees and it's not available on the BCA website.

I'm pretty sure about this because I've had to rack for two players going at it and I told them that they couldn't inspect the rack if I racked.

The men may have modified that rule to suit themselves.

Barbara

Curiosity got the best of me.

IIRC, the BCA has some type of relationship with the World Pool Association, so I went to their web site and came up with the following:

2.7 RACKING

After the referee has racked the balls for a game, the player may examine the balls as racked but the referee shall be the sole authority regarding the suitability of the rack for play.

http://www.wpa-pool.com/index.asp?content=rules_referees

 

[Banker Burt]

Steve Tipton does a great job of running the events but the problem of 9 ball and the rack is one of the few flaws the WPBA has yet to conquer and when it comes to 9 ball racks I don’t know if anyone can come up with a suitable solution. One of the best solutions I have seen to date (besides switching to 10 ball) was at this years men’s U.S. Open. They used the Sardo rack (I know a lot of you aren’t fans but it does stop players from manipulating racks whether it’s for them or against their opponent), racked the 9 on the spot and it was rack your own. The reason I liked that format is because the rack played the smallest roll I have ever seen in a professional tournament, less arguments, less 9 balls and less dead corner balls. This combined with very tight pockets allowed more of the playing and less of the racking to help determine match outcomes. But this doesn’t help the WPBA because of their decision to not use the Sardo rack and I don’t see them switching to 10 ball any time soon. So what should be done remains the question?

#1 The WPBA should recognize how important of a topic this really is and devote some serious time solving it permanently rather than constantly switching formats. (I’m sure they have put some thought into it but I would recommend a little more)
The rack is a huge factor in professional play and if you’re going to have a designated racker then that person should have some skills in that area (someone send Steve’s address and I’ll send him a DVD), believe me, nothing personal but most refs are horrible rackers as are most players and it’s really not anyone’s fault, we aren’t instructed to practice are racking skills, some people have a knack for it and some don’t.

So train the refs to rack properly (there aren’t that many) and then let the players inspect only, they can check but must accept is an okay option by me. But if the rack is that big of a factor a player should be allowed to use their knowledge of rack reading to help them determine where to break from. The way they play now a player can purposely give someone they know that has this rack reading skill a rack they know they will refuse in an effort to get the ref to rack, thereby tying up the ref and taking away the use of that players knowledge.

I still haven’t offered a solution!

How about rack your own, opponent can’t check (less arguments) but if you make the 9 it spots? But if you do that please give the incoming player the option of which spot the 9 is placed on, hate to see someone hooked for making the 9 (as I think happened to Jeanette Lee once in the Challenge of Champions) With this format being able to rack good will reward players rather than punish them (as is my problem) and if it’s alternate breaks it’ll be a nice break and runout contest.

Lot of typing but even I don’t think I can help much in this situation of 9 ball, that’s why I always promote 10 ball rack your own, spot the 10. The rack is less of a factor, they’ll be less arguing and more play.

And as for Steve purposely giving a bad rack to Allison, I highly, highly doubt it. My guess without even seeing it is Steve as most refs did his absolute best to freeze the 1 ball but accidentally and probably doesn’t know any better, left one (or both) of the front balls in the second row off the 9 and Allison happened to be breaking towards that ball and no energy went from that second ball towards the middle of the rack thereby creating a bad break, which was really a good break but a bad rack.

I wish I had the 9 ball solution so I wouldn’t have to keep banging my head against the table with these discussions.

You covered most everything Joe, but may I add to this discussion. I saw the Tipton rack in question and it appeared he made one press of the balls to the spot and lifted the rack. It was obvious that at least 4-5 balls did not hold their position.

I know he racks allot, so three things come to mind (1) I'll give him the benefit of doubt and just say he was careless, or (2) he does not think that a tight rack is that big of a deal, or (3) he wants the Sardo back so it relieves him of my (1) & (2) comments.

Regardless though, if Allison is doing her job (and maybe even moreso if not being allowed to check the rack) then she should be watching to determine what speed to break with. When I am getting cold-racked I just take some speed off my break and the negative ball reaction is less. Often times I still make a ball and I don't have to travel as much around the table because the balls stay in that half the table.

Then it is more like a game of 14.1 with shorter easier shots.

Any comment. I would appreicate your opinion on breaking softer when a cold rack is in play. Thanks.

 

[Nostroke]

Look-I think everyone here has seen someone rack their own and wind up giving themselves a slug rack and probably most of us have done it to ourselves. Sometimes a rack goes bad-That's just the way it is. Let's not crucify the guy for one lousy rack out of hundreds.

You should see the torture he goes through most every tournament when a table just isnt racking to the satisfaction of the players.

 

[DaveK]

Hi Rich & Barbara,
If some one hovers on me or my rack I will say `` you have bad breath,want a mint?``.That drives them to the roof.Nice shark move,ha.

I hope you carry mints, and have a fall back line, cause a smart ass like myself would surely say "yes please".

Dave

 

[Banker Burt]

Look-I think everyone here has seen someone rack their own and wind up giving themselves a slug rack and probably most of us have done it to ourselves. Sometimes a rack goes bad-That's just the way it is. Let's not crucify the guy for one lousy rack out of hundreds.

You should see the torture he goes through most every tournament when a table just isnt racking to the satisfaction of the players.

Your point is well taken, and it was not my intention to crucify Steve at all.

 

[buddha162]

The racking you see on tv is done before the taping begins and is strictly for the purpose of clearly showing the sponsor's (Brunswick's) name.

It is not an actual rack for a game.

This should end the discussion, at least in regards to Tipton's loose racks.

-Roger

 

[Kerry Impson]

This should end the discussion, at least in regards to Tipton's loose racks.

Occasionally the camera zooms in on Steve's hands as he's racking the balls, which is no doubt what happened here. (In these cases, it is obviously not racked beforehand so that explanation doesn't hold up here.) I think it's possible that when the camera lens is focused on Steve's racking, he'd prefer that it look effortless - he doesn't want to spend an inordinate amount of time tweaking the balls on camera - and hence the occasional out-of-place ball. He certainly wouldn't deliberately give a bad rack, and even if he secretly wanted the Sardo back he is much too professional to do something underhanded just to justify his position.

 

[Hal]

Actually it does if it is not touching either of the second balls. As I'm sure you know from reading Joe's book. I've read Joe's book and also experimented with different racks and find that as long as I get the 4 balls that Joe talks about in his book frozen, and I break from the correct side, I get a pretty good spread.

The four ball track you're talking about is for predicting the wing ball in the corner pocket. The front ball can be somewhat loose as long as the next two balls are touching the 9ball.

 

[shinobi]

The four ball track you're talking about is for predicting the wing ball in the corner pocket. The front ball can be somewhat loose as long as the next two balls are touching the 9ball.

That's oversimplified but the "four ball track" does work wonders.

Anyone who hasn't already seen Joe's Racking Secrets DVDs is really missing out. They are gold. I make the corner ball so often now it's absurd.

By the way Joe, I loved the way the videos alternated between regular and slow motion speeds in the demonstrations & replays.

-Tom

 

[Sweet Marissa]

Interestingly, this year at the Skins, there was a rule in effect about a player touching a ball on the table with his shirt or any part of his body. If he did so, then it was considered a foul, i.e., ball in hand to the opponent.

Since the Skins format is four players in each round, each player has a vested interest. This year, Danny Basavich saw a player in his foursome accidently touch a ball on the table ever so slightly with his shirt, and he called the foul sitting on the rail and brought it to the TD's attention. It was upheld, and the player had to leave the table and give his opponent ball in hand.

At the WPC this year, the shirt foul rule was also in effect. I don't think most of the American players knew about it, though.

 

[tom]

Tom, Joe Tucker authored a book entitled "Racking Secrets," and it sold like hot cakes. It was not published again, and players were searching for this little jewel, hoping to strengthen their game with the tips and tools of the trade.

At the U.S. Open, I received a DVD from Joe Tucker entitled "Racking Secrets with Joe Tucker." So his book lives on in the form of a DVD.

The DVD shares Joe Tucker's wisdom on 9-ball, 10-ball, 8-ball, straight pool, one-pocket, and 15-ball rotation break shots. The DVD can be purchased right here on AzBilliards if you see the advertising banner up above or you may be able to e-mail Joe Tucker directly to find out how to purchase one. His AzBilliards forum name is "JoeyT," I think.

JAM

Thanks a lot JAM, gonna get the DVD asap.
To understand a rack has been my main problem in the last tournaments, and I think this could be a good help. I think I owe you, your man(but that's another story..) and Mr. Shinobu (who gave me the same advice via PM) a drink, if you'll be patient enough to wait until next year's US Open...

 

[vagabond]

I hope you carry mints, and have a fall back line, cause a smart ass like myself would surely say "yes please".

Dave

Hi Dave,
It is only a joke.I am not a obnoxious/abrasive guy.

 

[Wally in Cincy]

Occasionally the camera zooms in on Steve's hands as he's racking the balls, which is no doubt what happened here. (In these cases, it is obviously not racked beforehand so that explanation doesn't hold up here.) .

Kerry,

I certainly do not want to argue over something this silly but I must repectfully say that you are wrong.

The rack shot is done beforehand. The camera does not show an actual game rack. I have only seen 4 different tv tapings at tournaments but I specificaly noticed this.

If you look closely the rack shot you see during the broadcast of a particular tourney is the same for every match.

They would use the same shot for every tourney all year if it were not for the different cloth colors at different tourneys.