to all you apa bashers...and all league haters also

buckshotshoey

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Lorider,

I don't know about the other leagues But -
BCAPL is a sanctioning body. We have 500 league operators that run different formats and use different policies on handicapping and rules. It is their league.

But when there players come to the nationals, they must play by our standard rules. There is no handicapping - but we do have different skill level divisions.

Just trying to avoid any confusion that your post might create.

BCAPL is not a handicap league. But it is a local option.

Mark Griffin, CEO
CSI - BCAPL - USAPL

Now I'm even more confused. There is no handicap but you have skill level divisions? The handicap in apa is listed as SL 4, SL 5, ETC. "SL" stands for skill level. It the same thing. Help me understand.
 

lorider

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
From everything I have read about these leagues, they are all missing a very important element. Most successful companies and Non Profits have a mission that is backed up by values the organization tries to adhere too. Without this solid foundation the organization will not have a direction for future growth or an obligation to make morally right decisions. When this happens, the organization fails to see the value in punishing LOs or players when they break the rules; this leads to a lack of respect for the organization and an eventual destruction of the organization from the inside out. The funny thing is if you hold them accountable to your established values, people will see the organization is to not be messed with.

i believe the apa ..or any league is very serious about all lo's and players adhering to that particulr leagues rules and regulations.

i have only been to vegas one time " last year " but from what i saw they are serious about catching sandbaggers and rule brrakers " such as ineligible players for example".

they have observers sitting in the stands taking notes on players they suspect may be under handicapped.

before every match they have a ref going over rules and reminding captains to verify identification of all opponents before starting your match.

if all the teams had followed what was required of them the incident where a team was disqualified for an o=ineligible player would never have happened.

the pa national office does punish lo's and players for breaking rules " when caught "

such was the case 2 years ago with the team that was disqualified. the players were banned from apa. the lo's were fined and put on probation. also the lo's were forbidden to have teams from their area enter the nationals for 2 years.

when players are disqualified at nationals for sandbagging the office looks directly at the lo for allowing that to happen. if a certain area frequently has players caught sandbagging you can believe the lo is called to the home office.

that is one reason why people complain about their or their team mates always being raised in the cities prior to nationals. if a player is border line on the next level you can believe the lo is gonna raise him to cover his ass with the home office. well the lo's that care about their franchise do any way.
 

Banks

Banned
Now I'm even more confused. There is no handicap but you have skill level divisions? The handicap in apa is listed as SL 4, SL 5, ETC. "SL" stands for skill level. It the same thing. Help me understand.

It's kinda like..

You have the Open division.. which is your pretty good 7's and below.

Then you have your A(dvanced) division.. which is more pretty good 7's up to really good 7's.

After that, you have your Masters division.. which is really good 7's up to amazing 7's.

Then you have your Grandmaster division.. which is amazing 7's up to OMFG 7's.

Oh yeah, they also added the Leisure division this year. You're allowed to enter that if you haven't cashed in the Open in a couple of years or something.

In each division, they just play heads-up races. Unless you're among the top 2 divisions in known ability, typically, you have to earn your way up the ladder.

Hopefully I've got all that right. :eek:
 

cluelesscuer

New member
I think my problem with the sandbagging issue...is it could be prevented by certain (heck, even if the existing rules were enforced) rules being followed by the LO. But they don't want to do it because they just want to make everyone happy which just, I believe, in the long run makes everyone unhappy. Too many teams are given cw spots here. Cw spots are basically dealt out here to teams as a 'deal'. Teams who don't win their division are sometimes given spots. Teams who got a cw berth in the summer (when the spots are basically given away) and just get killed in the fall and spring keep their cw spots. (Ignoring the top 50% rule).Deals are made to certain people who don't even meet the written qualification written by the national office to be in cw's. Sl's are kept low so the LO can keep the team together and then just randomly skyrocketed in the cw's if you get close to a Vegas trip and then dropped back down for no reason in the next session. This is to keep St. Louis off their back in case you get to Vegas. I've seen a captain get kicked off his team that qualified and then form a new team and given a cw spot. This is why there so much sandbagging. Which they could stop if they want to...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

DirtyJersey

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
It's kinda like..

You have the Open division.. which is your pretty good 7's and below.

Then you have your A(dvanced) division.. which is more pretty good 7's up to really good 7's.

After that, you have your Masters division.. which is really good 7's up to amazing 7's.

Then you have your Grandmaster division.. which is amazing 7's up to OMFG 7's.

Oh yeah, they also added the Leisure division this year. You're allowed to enter that if you haven't cashed in the Open in a couple of years or something.

In each division, they just play heads-up races. Unless you're among the top 2 divisions in known ability, typically, you have to earn your way up the ladder.

Hopefully I've got all that right. :eek:

Yeah it's pretty much like APA 2-6 is a D player
APA 7 is anywhere from A++ to C player
thnx I got the clarification. :thumbup:
 

lorider

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Now I'm even more confused. There is no handicap but you have skill level divisions? The handicap in apa is listed as SL 4, SL 5, ETC. "SL" stands for skill level. It the same thing. Help me understand.

pretty much all local bcapl leagues play round robin points based 8 ball. well that seems the most popular format any way. your handicap is based on the number of points you average per match.

as mark said ...all lo's are free to run their league any way they want to.

nationals is a whole different ball of wax.

they have skill level brackets just like apa has skill level brackets. bcapl just has names instead of numbers. :grin-square:

grand masters is top level.

masters is below it.

open is below that.

then i think they have a new one called intermediate. i am sure some one will correct me if i am wrong. :grin-square:

oh yea they also have seniors and super seniors.

they have the same issues as apa with their brackets. some one always complains about certain players belong in one bracket instead of the one they are playing in. they say so and so oughta be in masters instead of open just like a s/l 5 oughta be a 6 in apa.



the thing of it is who ever is doing the complaining in bcapl dont yell as loud as the guy complaining in apa. :grin-square:

just saw banks post. its not intermediate,,,,its leisure. ..thanks banks.
 
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RunOut Apps

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
We run a no Handicap system too! It's called TAP X, No handicapping, No score keeping etc with Races to 5

Also If Handicaps are desired?, we have a state for the art handicapping system called Pool Net with mobile device scoring using a phone app that track the entire process for the player. TAP-X_(FB)[1].jpg https://vimeo.com/78388124

TAP On!
 

buckshotshoey

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I think my problem with the sandbagging issue...is it could be prevented by certain (heck, even if the existing rules were enforced) rules being followed by the LO. But they don't want to do it because they just want to make everyone happy which just, I believe, in the long run makes everyone unhappy. Too many teams are given cw spots here. Cw spots are basically dealt out here to teams as a 'deal'. Teams who don't win their division are sometimes given spots. Teams who got a cw berth in the summer (when the spots are basically given away) and just get killed in the fall and spring keep their cw spots. (Ignoring the top 50% rule).Deals are made to certain people who don't even meet the written qualification written by the national office to be in cw's. Sl's are kept low so the LO can keep the team together and then just randomly skyrocketed in the cw's if you get close to a Vegas trip and then dropped back down for no reason in the next session. This is to keep St. Louis off their back in case you get to Vegas. I've seen a captain get kicked off his team that qualified and then form a new team and given a cw spot. This is why there so much sandbagging. Which they could stop if they want to...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

We had a players meeting when our new league operator took over last December.
The issue of finishing in top 50 percent after qualifing was brought up.
As per national office, this will be strictly enforced. It also seems the 3 point scoring is working.
It is possible to win 3 out of 5 matches and still lose by points. A lot harder to sandbag and dump games. Harder then it used to be anyway.
 
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SmoothStroke

Swim for the win.
Silver Member
500 league operators running different formats, different policies on handicapping and rules?
Then they get to the big show and the rules change to standard rules?

Example: Little League Baseball, One governing body worldwide, the rules are the same all over the world.

Teams from all over the world get to Williamsport.

Here are the rules boys, they are different then you are use to.
You only get 1 out
Only the left fielder can come in to pitch relief, we field only 6 positions.
It's no longer 3 strikes you're out 4 balls you walk. It's 1 strike you're out 7 balls you walk.

That's the silliest crap I have heard this week.

I can see how that would generate more income compared to 1 standard rule and format.
I guess if people are playing pool it's all good:scratchhead:
 

buckshotshoey

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
500 league operators running different formats, different policies on handicapping and rules?
Then they get to the big show and the rules change to standard rules?

Example: Little League Baseball, One governing body worldwide, the rules are the same all over the world.

Teams from all over the world get to Williamsport.

Here are the rules boys, they are different then you are use to.
You only get 1 out
Only the left fielder can come in to pitch relief, we field only 6 positions.
It's no longer 3 strikes you're out 4 balls you walk. It's 1 strike you're out 7 balls you walk.

That's the silliest crap I have heard this week.

I can see how that would generate more income compared to 1 standard rule and format.
I guess if people are playing pool it's all good:scratchhead:

In reality, APA is no different in some cases. They are tightening their enforcement though. Our new operator will not do pay outs. He is instead hosting multiple tournaments throughout the year for your chance to make some money. The money generated from league night is for sending teams to Vegas.
 

Celophanewrap

Call me Grace
Silver Member
In reality, APA is no different in some cases. They are tightening their enforcement though. Our new operator will not do pay outs. He is instead hosting multiple tournaments throughout the year for your chance to make some money. The money generated from league night is for sending teams to Vegas.

Our LO runs a Trophy winners tournament following each session. It's an invitational. Whoever won the trophy in their division gets invited. It pays the top 2 places. I know in some parts of the country they do that area wide challange a couple of times a year, The North East Challange the team from Connecticuit always wins or isn't there one in Arizona for the teams from Arizona, New Mexico, Nevada, Utah and So. Cal or something like that. They seem to pay out pretty good and provide a prep for the NTC. I always thought those regional tournaments were a really good idea and looked like fun
 
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