To be a pro, or not to be a pro.

B

Bob Romano

Bob' Wife
Silver Member
What do you think of the ever growing amount of road players who do not play in pro events and should by all standards be pro's getting into big national tournaments and constantly bringing in the big bucks?

Should there be a national list of "Big Dawgs" for all tournament directors?

These players are for the most part, are better than master players.

Eydie
 
Quote
"What do you think of the ever growing amount of road players who do not play in pro events"

Hard to believe that is true. I played on the road for years, at a time when costs were cheap and you could easily make what a man with a very good job was making at the time. It was in fact a real job, not just something to do. I could not imagine playing on the road today. I am not talking about driving to the next town and matching up with some guy, fantasizing you are a road player. I am talking about full time, on the road doing it for a living. Older players know what I mean.
 
To be a pro....

Hi Eydie,

I've had this conversation with the BCA's John Lewis every year. There are way too many players that fit your description. The new definition of a pro is "top 32 on the UPA year end points list". To be added to the BCA "once a pro, always a pro" list, you now must be a UPA member (do you think they are going to join?). I think you and I could list thirty or forty players that avoid, at all costs, making that list.

Here is one of my suggestions to John. Have one person at BCA contact the operator/director of each regional tour or major tournament. Anyone that finishes in the top 5 or 6 in money won is added to the national "Big Dawgs" list. If your name appears on several of the lists, BCA places you on the "pro" players list. You are making a living playing pool. That is a true professional. AZ Billiards does a money list for the "pros". They could add a "Big Dawgs" list for all to see. Now, if those players want to play in an amateur event, the directors will know who they are and their true abilities.
 
To be a pro, or not to be qa pro

There is a fallacy here. Firstly, if you will look at the earnings of the players listed in Billiards Digest, you will see that throughout the year, and every year, it is only the first 7 or eight players on that list who do not fall to the US poverty level of $14,000. Overwhelmingly, pool players, amateur, shortstop, road player, or pro, does not average anywhere near the nonplaying public. Ordinay people with ordinary jobs consistently make more money.
 
To be a pro......

Hi Halhoule,

I think you are naive. There are many "amateur" players making lots more than poverty by playing in "amateur" only tounaments. By not being on the BCA "always a pro..." list, they can win the BCA Masters 8 Ball ($7000 for first), the BCA 8 Ball, ($6000), the APA singles ($15000), the Allen Hopkins 9 Ball ($5000) etc. The BCA 8 Ball was recently won by Ron Wiseman. He is an amateur. Yeh right! Even if they don't win, the added cash is well their efforts.

Look at the winners on the Joss, Planet Pool, and other regionals. You see the same names over and over. Check the BCA list and suprise, some of them are not there. At a recent tournament, I saw Ike Runnels?? actually enter. I've seen him at the BCA's, APA's, Billiard Expo, coast to coast, only on the gambling tables while the tournaments are on. Is he a "pro"?
 
I agree with Cardiac Kid on this one! The same people are always in the money at each tournament and finishing in the top of the "amatuer" tours. Yes you're right halhoule, they are not making as much as the public, but look at how little time they put in to win that money compared to how much time someone has to work to make the money. We need more Professional Pool Players IMO! Look at the Professional Basketball, Baseball, Tennis, Golf, Hockey players their are. Not all of them have become #1 or even close to the top, but they are considered a PROFESSIONAL, so why not have more Pool Pros. It will help bring the younger, less experienced players step up and you will soon start to see Billiards/Pool back in action with more players.

Zim
 
Re: To be a pro......

cardiac kid said:
Hi Halhoule,

I think you are naive. There are many "amateur" players making lots more than poverty by playing in "amateur" only tounaments. By not being on the BCA "always a pro..." list, they can win the BCA Masters 8 Ball ($7000 for first), the BCA 8 Ball, ($6000), the APA singles ($15000), the Allen Hopkins 9 Ball ($5000) etc. The BCA 8 Ball was recently won by Ron Wiseman. He is an amateur. Yeh right! Even if they don't win, the added cash is well their efforts.

Look at the winners on the Joss, Planet Pool, and other regionals. You see the same names over and over. Check the BCA list and suprise, some of them are not there. At a recent tournament, I saw Ike Runnels?? actually enter. I've seen him at the BCA's, APA's, Billiard Expo, coast to coast, only on the gambling tables while the tournaments are on. Is he a "pro"?
Click to expand...


Are you kidding? Those numbers you give by the way, are to win. Come in third or forth and it can drop off 60% or more. After the travel and misalliances expenses, entries fees, many where you don't cash, hours of practice time you have to put in on a weekly basis to keep up anykind of speed. Trying to make a living at pool is not job, it is a sentence without a cell, at least in jail they feed you. I don't know where you live, but in my neighborhood houses start at $250,000. I am self employed, as would be a pro pool player and pay around $9,000. a year just for health insurance for my wife and myself. There is no player bumming around in his car playing in regional tournaments, and this includes most of the pros for that matter as well, that could ever live at any kind of normal standard life style enjoyed by most Americans, financed from playing pool. Pool is for the most part an amateur sport, they just don't seem to know it. If you can't make a living at it, so what else would you call it?
 
Last edited:
I agree with Macguy too. Cardiac, just go to any of the pro tournaments and talk to the average pro, someone who does not usually win the tournaments and ask them what they do for a living. Most of them have other jobs than pool because they have to because the money in pool is so minimal for them.
 
I agree with you Rickw, but that doesn't mean they can't have a label of "BIG DAWG" or "PRO", correct? For those players who love the game, but won't play in tournaments because they never get into the money or they are always getting beat...maybe we should even it out a little! IMO!! We can't forget about the little guys, or they will never be a future for our great sport of cueing!!
Zim
 
Zim, no disrespect, but I think you've missed the point here. Those top notch players don't want the label of "pro". It would kill all of their action.

Strike two...sorry, but I also have to disagree with you when you say working people have to put in more hours to make their money. How many "working people" are at it for ten hours a day while learning their trade?
 
Actually, I know a LOT of people who work 10+ hours a day! I know what you're saying about "killing their action", but there's a price for fame! You agree with that, right? Either you want to be a no name big money winner, or a pro who has a title and some money and most likely a sponsor to help pay a "little" of the expenses. It all depends on what you want. If you're in POOl for the money, then hit the road, if you're in it for fame or recognition then by all means, do what ever it takes. I personaly want to promote the sport as much as possible and get the younger, less experienced players to step up a notch and play more. That's why I stated my point of view earlier.

Zim
 
Zim,

I know players that could play on the pro circuit. They're very good players. They have to spot everyone to get any action. This is the only way they can make money because they don't work. They are either in the money, which means they have between 1 and 10 thousand or they are dead broke. When they have money, they don't have it long.

Think about this, the longer they play pool and don't work, they are losing the chance to build a resume. When they're 32 and decide that they'd like to settle down and raise a family, what kind of job are they going to get? It's a tough life Zim. There aren't that many players out there that have the ability of Efren, Busta, Mika or Alex, but there are a lot of very good players out there. What do they do? How do they make a decent living?
 
Bob Romano said:
What do you think of the ever growing amount of road players who do not play in pro events and should by all standards be pro's getting into big national tournaments and constantly bringing in the big bucks?

Should there be a national list of "Big Dawgs" for all tournament directors?

These players are for the most part, are better than master players.

Eydie
Click to expand...

haven't road players always made up a larger proportion of the pool scene?

do you mean pros like rodney when you say "master players"? in that case,,,i don't think so. some guy beats a pro, which can happen at any given time, and all of a sudden, he's a road player to be feared.
 
Hello Danny,

This is a question that I get on a daily basis from many people aronnd the world who want to play in our events. This was not aimed at anyone inparticular. I can honestly assure you that no one wants to bash anyones action, it's only a question.

Here is the situation. On a daily basis, I am confronted by players who call me and want to play in one of our tournaments. Some of the questions are "If I come all the way from Washington, do I even have a chance to get in the money?" or "I really want to play in this event, but I know that I don't stand a chance because **** or ******* will be there and they ALWAYS win!"

My answers are always this, "We have to have regulations to direct a clean event. Be go by the BCA guidelines as regulation to follow on who is eligable to play. If this or that person is not of pro status as stated by the BCA then he/she is eligable to play in our events." This leaves the door wide open for any favorite to enter.

Maybe I should rephrase my question to this: Should there be
a "Big Dawg" list that tournament directors should use in conjunction with the BCA pro list on determining who can play?

My Windy City Open Tournament (www.windycityopen.org ) IS a "Big Dawg" Tournament with a BIG entry fee. I expect to see all my friends who are road players and who are not show up.

But then I have a smaller event with a smaller entry fee that is affordable for the once a week pool player to enter, and make a small vacation out of it for the significant other and family attend and they are blown right out of the water in the first 2 rounds.

This is a valid question with no disrespect to to any of my friends. Please remember it is only a question.

Eydie Romano
 
For those who think they can make a decent living playing pool in this day and age- I feel really sorry for you.

The best shortstops are doctors, lawyers, and businessmen.
 
pro-player said:
For those who think they can make a decent living playing pool in this day and age- I feel really sorry for you.

The best shortstops are doctors, lawyers, and businessmen.
Click to expand...

Obviously, to all of us here, pool is a way of life. To think that there was one post by a confused doctor who is contemplating on a career shift from medicine to being a pool pro!

Pool can mess one up bad. I know of a club player who could not manage his propensity to gamble to a point where his wife followed him to the pool-hall just to regulate his betting. Poor guy could have built houses for his kids with his losses. Another guy finally found all his things in the garage when he went home late from pool. Some players just cannot handle losing, and resort to breaking bridges (even literally! :D ) with really good friends.

This is why we all should have a wholistic approach to the introduction of the game to newbies. One may argue that shrinks should own that department, but I believe that we all have that moral obligation in opening the eyes of the neophytes to the bad side of the game that might produce an inverse effect of what we really want to feel at the end of the day - happiness.

Face it - we all are hooked hard into this game, and our loved ones have adjusted to this passion. You wouldn't encourage your daughter's husband to play pool now would you?

To be or not to be a pro? It depends on what will make you (and your loved ones) happy. I admire educated pros who chose this life. Majority did not have any choice.
 
Last edited:
Of course pool is a way of life, but if a young talent came up to me and asked me which path he should choose, pool or school, I would say school without a doubt. I can't count how many middle-aged world-class players I've met who slept in their cars for weeks at a time because when there was no action there was no rent.
 
Danny D said:
Zim, kid, listen to Reno, read what he says in the post below you, what he is politely trying to tell you is you dont have a clue. You are l5,-000 miles away sitting in some 3rd country rice patty. Your action is going into town on Saturday night and playing the local gooks for a bottle of sake. Uncle blows a bugle, you wake up, bugle blows, you go to sleep. Uncle feeds you free, c lothes you free, does everything for you, its like livin with your mother.
You dont have to think, in fact not thinking got you promoted to sargent, rigtht. When you get back to civiliaztion and into the real world, learn to shave, grow some hair on your ass and on top of your burr head, buy some real clothes you buy, grab your cue and hit the road, take $500 and see how long you can stay out there. My bet is 3 days you are busted and beggin to sweep out the pool hall for a double cheezburger. Until you live our life, and succeed at it, I'd put a sock in it kid.
Click to expand...

Danny D- I understand EXACTLY what you guys are saying, I'm just making a comment on how I know the general player feels. I never said that Reno's wrong or any of you and in that case, neither am I.

Now...you have NO CLUE who I am or what my life's about, so do not make any comments about what I do, where I do it and how long I do it. The Military is nothing like living with your Mother. I HAVE worked in "the real world" prior to the Military and I know what it's like. For those of you that have never served for OUR COUNTRY, the Military IS THE REAL WORLD!! (don't take this personally anyone, just a general statement) The people that do choose to roam the roads playing with their last dollar just to win money for food, can thank guys/girls like me that sacrifice our lives every damn day so you can free load and just get my in this world while others are working their damn asses off to take care of their family. KISS OFF DANNY D. YOU HAVE NO CLUE!!

Zim
 
I served 4 years in the US Army, and it's no cakewalk. It sure as hell made me a better person when I came out. It was a wake-up call to get my S*** together. God Bless our troops :)
 
to be a pro.....

Hi Danny D,

By way of Buffalo? Anyway Danny, if I walk into a pool room away from Rochester and see a "pro" gambling on a table, I'm quiet too. If they're playing someone I know, and my friend has no idea who he is being raped by, I get to my friend. Your secret, for all intensive purposes, is safe with me.

Now, lets get to the real point. If I'm playing in a tournament advertised as "amateurs" only and in walks Scotty Townsend, is he an amateur? What full time job does he hold other than a road player? How about Mark Tadd? Or John Schmidt? Come on Danny, we're not talking about gambling. If we were matching up and I got fleeced, thats our business. If you walked into the "Super Billiards Expo Amateurs Only 9 Ball Tournament", where no one knows you and stole the money, thats different.

The only places Eydie and Bob are talking about, are tournaments advertised to the pool playing public as "amateurs only". I know way too many road players. Obviously, so do you. I also know the limit of my abilities. I am an amateur player. I have sufficient resources so, from time to time, I play with the "Big Dawgs" and the true pro's. I have yet to see any of them duck me!

Other than Reno, Allen Hopkins 9 Ball Open and the Vegas events, no one asks for a signed 1099. Any money made by a road player is theirs. Thats great except for no Social Security or medical benefits! What happens when they have an accident or fall ill and have no money or benefits to cover them? Stole someones money and had a baseball bat (or worse) upside your head recently?

I am proud of Zim and all others like him or her. Thanks for your service to and for the rest of us!
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top