too fast too slow

Gerry

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I've been working on pace of play recently, and I'm going back and forth between shooting quickly, and slowing down to limit mistakes. When I'm in stroke I play at Earls pace, when I slow down I make "some" better decisions, but it feels awkward at times.

Playing 1 pocket I MUST slow down, so it's not an issue. Playing 9 ball I never really have any issues because a majority of the time the patterns are obvious to me. Now 14.1 is another story, when it's flowing, all is well, but I do make some bad choices that kill runs. When I slow down to not make the errors I feel out of sorts.

Do any of you work on this?, or know anyone who played fast, then slowed a bit and it worked? or maybe found a happy medium somehow?

thanks, Gerry
 
I have the same issue. One thing I am working on is stopping every five balls to re-assess, the lay of the table. It kinda forces me to take a moment to plan everything out, and not get ahead of myself and make stupid mistakes.

It reminds me of when I was a chess player. I used to force myself to spend two minutes before I made a move. I used to think so quickly and get ahead of myself in my plans, that I sometimes forgot about the bishop across the board. Spending the extra time resulted in my share of tournament wins.
 
Slow down

Gerry,
I know exactly what you are going through. I too play fast especally when I get in the zone while playing straight pool. However it can cause mistakes that can be costly.
I once played a few hours with Buddy Hall and he suggested that I slow my pace down. He is a slow player with a great stroke. And in 1998 I took a few lessons with Ray Martin and he told me to slow down by counting one one-thousand, two one-thousand, three one-thousand before I shoot.
And recently Mark Wilson in St Louis told me the very same thing "slow down your stroke."
It's hard to do but if you watch all the top players (excluding Earl and Keith) they shoot slower and very deliberate.

I am in a long bad habit of playing fast but I am now working very hard to slow it down. I know my game will improve once it's part of my new habit.

Regards,
Hal
 
Gerry said:
I've been working on pace of play recently, and I'm going back and forth between shooting quickly, and slowing down to limit mistakes.

So, when you're shooting quickly your mistakes are limitless? :confused:

The pace of your warm-up strokes sets the pace of all your other actions. If you are making snap shots, you will make snap decisions too.

Get down, aim, adjust, aim... when you think you have it right, then begin your five warm-up strokes. Each should last one full one-thousand count, one second. Release your chi on the fifth stroke.

Maintain this deliberate, measured pace as you follow through, stand up, stroll around the table, choose your next shot, and chalk up.
 
Find Gerry... let gerry find him/her self.

Let Gerry stroke.

Find flaws in stroke... if any.

Admit to flaws... if any.

Allow FLAWS to show. quit denying.

Build from scratch, allow growth.

Honest = Self

period.
 
Uhhh, may be I wasn't clear. I'm fine with my cuing technique, what I'm referring to is time "between" shots, not fundamentals. I know it's from having a 9ball back ground where the table is laid out for you, so I got into a quick paced habit to dog proof it.

My big goal is to be a consistent 100 ball runner, and I feel being too speedy might be hurting that. Right now, I'm running 40's/50's every day, and I have the confidence that I'm not lacking in knowledge of the game. So, maybe I need a Valium or something to slow down!:D

Gerry
 
Just my opinion, but:

I play my best pool when I play "NATURALLY", ie my natural pace is fast.
My best ever day playing pool was when I beat 3 top 16 UK Pros and a young hopeful. No-one could have beaten me that day (at least in the UK :D), and all I thought about was potting and position.
As soon as you force yourself to stroke 5 times, it just wont go naturally for you, and all your natural talent goes out the window.
 
what's to think about? You drop your pants around your ankles, sit on the pot, find a comfy position, put elbows on knees and read the sports pages. You Euros complicate everything!
 
Gerry said:
Uhhh, may be I wasn't clear. I'm fine with my cuing technique, what I'm referring to is time "between" shots, not fundamentals.

Like I said above, the pace of your cuing sets the pace of all your other actions.

I know it's from having a 9ball back ground where the table is laid out for you, so I got into a quick paced habit to dog proof it.

"Dog proof"?

My big goal is to be a consistent 100 ball runner, and I feel being too speedy might be hurting that.

Do not confuse speed with haste. Speed is irrelevant: it doesn't matter if you complete all of the steps necessary to make your shot fly true in two, five, or 60 seconds. Haste is releasing your shot before completing the channel for your chi that will carry the balls where you want them, like releasing a flood of water into an unfinished drainpipe.

BTW, your goal should be to achieve satori; then you will be able to run any number of balls. Kensho is the Zen Cueism novice's earliest, temporary experience of satori.

In pool, kensho is known as "dead stroke," the fleeting mental state in which one understands perfectly what the table requires and therefor is unable to miss a shot. If you have run 40-50 balls, you have experienced kensho. You may have noticed that you did so thoughtlessly.

Thought is the mental process through which we build understanding or perfect understanding. Thoght is unnecessary when one is in dead stroke, because understanding is already present and perfect.

Satori, or perpetual dead stroke, is the ultimate goal of the Four-Bank Path to Enlightenment and Correct Thinking.

So, maybe I need a Valium or something to slow down!:D

What you really need is Zen meditation.
 
Flash back Dave....I was into all that 15 years ago when I was an instructor at The Dragon Gym. We were a traditional Korean school that taught Tai Kwon Do, Aikido, an Karate. I was the instructor for the little kids, and had a great time. Yes, I did meditation, centering, and was way into the Eastern philosophy. I'm not putting it down, or anything like that, and I did take away many things I still use today from that experience. Thanks for the reminder

Gerry
 
Gerry,
I play too fast as a rule also. So much so that I forget to chalk up and end up miscuing more than I should. I try to remind myself to slow down, but it rarely works unless I'm playing in a league match where my team is counting on me. Then I have no problem remembering to slow it down. Overall, I feel like I am making some progress in practice with taking more time between shots. However, it's really easy to slip back into shooting too fast when faced with an easily beatable opponent. Most people feel it's better to incorporate changes by engraining them into your subconscious during practice so that you aren't thinking about them when you are playing competitively.
 
recoveryjones said:
That's deep stuff, however, I really like it.Good Post.

Thanks, hope it helps your game.

dhakala said:
"The moment of releasing chi - during which the final stroke of the cue is made - is thoughtless."

recoveryjones said:
I've experienced deadstroke a half dozen times or so where I just couldn't miss. My mind was free of all clutter and basically "thoughtless" as ball after ball disappeared in the pockets.

The question is, is how does one bring on deadstroke?
RJ

By pursuing satori, or kensho at first, through the practice of pool meditation. That is what I mean by "walking the Four-Bank Path to Enlightenment and Correct Thinking."

First, one must change Incorrect Thinking about pool.

Pool is not a frivolous game, but an earnest sacrament. Pool is nothing less than an effort to perfect one's eternal spirit, a task to be undertaken with joy but never carelessly. In episode 127 of Seinfeld ("The Doll," 1996, season 7), a sign on the wall of George's bedroom says it well:

"Pool is not a matter of life or death. It's more important than that."

Pool is not a competitive sport, but a solitary or cooperative pursuit like hunting. Competitors strive for the same thing - dominance over the other. A hunter strives to kill, while the prey strives to live; that is not competition, for their objectives could not be more different. One may hunt alone at a pool table or in cooperation with a team mate, but one's goal is not dominance over anyone. The goal of pool meditation is nourishment of one's spirit. Fortunately, nothing has to die for one's soul food.:cool:

With such Correct Thinking, one may pursue Enlightenment - a. k. a., satori, "dead stroke" - by adapting Zen meditation practices to pool.

Zazen - "sitting still" meditation, the stereotypical lotus position and half-closed eyes - may seem the furthest from pool. But hunters spend a lot of time motionless, patiently waiting for prey to appear. A Zen Cueist needs to develop the skills of motionless patience and thoughtless awareness of his environment.

Kinhin - walking meditation - is practiced in Zen mainly to relieve the physical stress caused by long periods of zazen. Ten minutes of kinshin out of each hour of zazen is often recommended for beginners, while adepts may need less. But kinshin plays a greater role in pool meditation, for obvious reasons.

Kyudo - the "way of the bow" or Zen archery - is an ancient and highly developed form of active meditation that is very much like pool meditation. Kyudo - and pool - bring the practitioner closer to the goal of satori (perpetual Enlightenment) by incorporating more physical activities than zazen or kinhin.

The ultimate goal is to live every moment in satori, while doing all the mundane activities of life. The book One Arrow, One Life: Zen, Archery, Enlightenment, discusses the benefits of Zen in everyday life and how kyudo helps one achieve them.

"Dead stroke" is not a cigarette ligher to be flicked on and off as needed, but a guiding light to be left burning always so that one does not stray from the Path.
 
Gerry said:
I've been working on pace of play recently, and I'm going back and forth between shooting quickly, and slowing down to limit mistakes. When I'm in stroke I play at Earls pace, when I slow down I make "some" better decisions, but it feels awkward at times.

Playing 1 pocket I MUST slow down, so it's not an issue. Playing 9 ball I never really have any issues because a majority of the time the patterns are obvious to me. Now 14.1 is another story, when it's flowing, all is well, but I do make some bad choices that kill runs. When I slow down to not make the errors I feel out of sorts.

Do any of you work on this?, or know anyone who played fast, then slowed a bit and it worked? or maybe found a happy medium somehow?

thanks, Gerry

From my observations...

When your standing up deciding on the shot, the pace may vary...It may be obvous right away, or could take a while to study depending on the game. (Example: 9-ball vs 1-pocket)

Once you have decided on the shot, "click"...now the pre shot routine is its own pace and probably should never vary.

I think the key is...there is a separation between shot selection pace & actual shot process pace.....Where players tend to miss is when there is no separation of the two and mental mistakes occur...or on the other side...they have taken longer than ususal to decide how to play a tricky situation and then "rush" the actual shot to make up for the time spent thinking....(I have done that a few times)

I relate back to teachings from Golf that I feel would apply to the "actual shot process" pace...Your shot routine "tempo" should (and probably will under pressure) mirror your normal everyday tempo....

Example:
Nick Varner - Generally a slow paced slow talking individual = Slow paced shot tempo

Cory Duel - Generally a slow paced slow talking individual = Slow paced shot tempo

Earl - Type A personality quicker tempo paced and talking individual = Quicker paced shot tempo.

I don't think you get to pick your tempo...I think it really picks you...

Watch Earl close though and you will find that when he encounters a tricky situation, he has no problem taking his time to decide what he needs to do...then once he has picked his shot...his normal tempo takes over.......JMO
 
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