Tough Shot

ENGLISH! said:
Keep in mind that the cue ball squirts in the exact opposite direction of the tip placement, So, for say 7:30 for the tip placement the ball will squirt along a line from there, 7:30, to 1:30 & for a 10:30 tip placement the ball with squirt along the line from there, 10:30, to 4:30. Since the ball is being squirted into the bed of the table, the actual squirt may be a hair less as it can be absorbed by the table, but the ball can also bounce 'out'. To me there always seems to be a hair less net squirt when using high along with the off center.
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Nice point, English. If you want the cueball to stick to the rail, a level cue is very important. Since the nose of the cushion contacts the cueball above it's center, any upward bounce or squirt will cause cueball to ricochet off of the bottom of the cushion nose, forcing it away from the rail - the 'bounce out' mentioned above. Both draw and follow can cause this effect, which is another reason I advocate for shooting away from the cushion with a slight swerve.

If you have to draw this ball, I think the slight swerve (again, only a couple of mm's) and a slow, smooth, maximum draw stroke (much easier with a soft tip) is the best way to go. I would play around to see exactly how low you can hit the CB without miscuing - the softer you can hit your draw shot, the better.

Aaron
 
If you spend 30 min. learning to shoot it straight down the rail, and 30 min learning to bank it cross corner, you will be shooting it cross corner from now on.;)
 
ENGLISH! said:
Keep in mind that the cue ball squirts in the exact opposite direction of the tip placement, So, for say 7:30 for the tip placement the ball will squirt along a line from there, 7:30, to 1:30 & for a 10:30 tip placement the ball with squirt along the line from there, 10:30, to 4:30. Since the ball is being squirted into the bed of the table, the actual squirt may be a hair less as it can be absorbed by the table, but the ball can also bounce 'out'. To me there always seems to be a hair less net squirt when using high along with the off center.

So you can still draw or follow the ball. But... with speed the ball will not swerve back in time to make the correct contact. So.... you will actually have to aim a hair into the rail. The rail side tip location will squirt the ball out away from the rail.

It's sort of like using back hand english. Also keep in mind that the spin will throw the ball some if not hit too hard.

This may sound 'tricky' to some, but IMO it actually gives one a wider margin for error than trying to to roll or slide or draw the ball while maintaining contact with the rail. For those... one needs to be 'perfect'.

I'm not as 'perfect' as I once was when I was very young. I think that is why middle aged 'dogs' learn 'tricks'.

Good Luck with the experiments & don't give up too quickly if at first you don't succeed.

Best to Y'a,
Rick

PS Don't be afraid of it. just play around with it & don't quit to quickly if at first you don't succeed. Once you get it, it will be your friend for more than just that one shot.

PSS If hit at exactly at 3:00 or 9:00 the cue ball basically will NOT swerve back. The spin has nothing to grab on that angle. Picture a ball spinning in place as I hope you've seen before.
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I suggest you study up on the topic, because you are completely wrong on your assumptions. Simple test- if that were true, all cues would deflect the same amount. They don't.
 
Neil said:
I suggest you study up on the topic, because you are completely wrong on your assumptions. Simple test- if that were true, all cues would deflect the same amount. They don't.
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I'll play.

Would you care to explain yourself? Or...would rather not derail the OP's thread?
 
Neil said:
I suggest you study up on the topic, because you are completely wrong on your assumptions. Simple test- if that were true, all cues would deflect the same amount. They don't.
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I think one of us is missing something, Neil, as we are nearly always on the same page. I took English to mean that the direction (not the quantity) of the deflection will be opposite the english applied. This sounds on point to me, and would be cue agnostic. Am I missing something?

Aaron
 
Rail shots are tough because you have to assume that the rails are straight on both sides. If not, you will clip the pocket corner or the rail will actually just send the cueball out from the pocket.

A thing I read a while ago, if you are shooting the cueball past the pocket to the other rail, use a bit of inside on it, as it will curve the cueball a bit out form the rail and back in, helping to avoid the pocket corners and also reducing how much the rail may push the cueball if it's not even.
 
Aaron_S said:
I think one of us is missing something, Neil, as we are nearly always on the same page. I took English to mean that the direction (not the quantity) of the deflection will be opposite the english applied. This sounds on point to me, and would be cue agnostic. Am I missing something?

Aaron
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If that were true, all cues would squirt the cb the exact same amount. How much the cb squirts is the directional quantity. Rick is saying that it squirts exactly opposite the cb contact. That's not true. That is why we have LD shafts and HD shafts. How much the cb squirts is dependent on the mass of the last 6-9" of the shaft.

Yes, if you hit the left side of the cb, it will squirt to the right. That is not all he is saying in his statement though. He is giving a precise amount it will squirt.
 
Since he seems to have left, I'm fairly sure that Neil's point is that I neglected to state that the squirt is actually through the center of the cue ball.

I was pretty much speaking from just the shooter's perspective.

In other words since we are hitting on the side of the ball near the shooter & NOT actually hitting on the cross cut of the ball that would be the clock face, my reference points are not technically correct.

But I think one get's the point from the shooter's perspective.

I was not attempting to conduct a physics lessons.

I was merely trying to help the OP with the problem shot.

Kuddos to Neil.

I'm sorry if I caused any confusion.

Best 2 All,
Rick
 
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I now understand what both of you are saying. I was thinking we were speaking more generally about the direction of the squirt - based on English's most recent post, he was attempting to be more general. I do see what you are saying, though, Neil, which is that while the direction of the squirt is generally opposite the cue tip contact point, it is not exactly opposite, and its deviation from exactly opposite will be dependent on the deflection properties of the cue. Interesting stuff.

Aaron
 
Squirt is not the issue here - don't let folks distract you.

What IS the issue? Friction.

The OB friction draws the ball into the rail. So with the "straight, no English, center ball hit" method described herein, you will almost always hit the tip of the side pocket.

Please read Ray's book. He describes it perfectly, IIRC.

But in a nutshell, you need a tip of inside english, plus the slightest overcut. The overcut takes the OB slightly off the rail, thereby avoiding the tip, and the inside brings the OB back towards the rail to pot the ball.

Visualize it as bending the OB around the side pocket/tip.

On SOME tables, you can make this shot with no english. But this method will guarantee you can make this shot on ANY table. Big difference and a key to winning.

-von
 
Neil said:
If that were true, all cues would squirt the cb the exact same amount. How much the cb squirts is the directional quantity. Rick is saying that it squirts exactly opposite the cb contact. That's not true. That is why we have LD shafts and HD shafts. How much the cb squirts is dependent on the mass of the last 6-9" of the shaft.

Yes, if you hit the left side of the cb, it will squirt to the right. That is not all he is saying in his statement though. He is giving a precise amount it will squirt.
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What I said IS true.

But I'm not going to argue with you.

Just think force vectors.

Force = MASS x Acceleration... & then apply a direction vector.

There are TWO(2) force vectors in play for the off center hit of each different cue. They are on the same lines for the same tip offset.

It's the net of those two(2) force vectors that determine the departing path of the cue ball.

AND I never gave a precise amount for the squirt.

May God Bless You, Neil.
 
Definitely inside english. Practice that shot and see it's not really that hard. Even if cue ball is off the rail I use inside, makes OB hug rail.
 
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