Trouble installing Elk Masters

[iusedtoberich]

I have one customer who loves Elk Masters. But I have a very hard time installing them. The problem is trimming the sides to be the same diameter as the ferrule. I have tried using my cutting tool (this is the method I use on all other tips with excellet results), and a utility knife blade. I have also tried a utility knife blade with the edge ground to a blunt edge (like a scraper).

The problem is the tip doesn't shear well. After I take a cut, its as if I didnt remove any leather. It just "grows" back. I have tried low speeds (400-500 RPM) and high speeds as well (1500 RPM). I can eventually do it, but it takes forever (20 minutes instead of 2 for all the other tips).

I don't have a lot of experince with these tips, as I've only had a few guys who wanted them in the past. I would estimate I installed about 30 or 40 of them.

Is there a trick to these soft tips? Oh, I also have the same problem whether or not I press the tips in a vise before installing them.

Thanks,

Nick

 

[blud]

tips

I have one customer who loves Elk Masters. But I have a very hard time installing them. The problem is trimming the sides to be the same diameter as the ferrule. I have tried using my cutting tool (this is the method I use on all other tips with excellet results), and a utility knife blade. I have also tried a utility knife blade with the edge ground to a blunt edge (like a scraper).

The problem is the tip doesn't shear well. After I take a cut, its as if I didnt remove any leather. It just "grows" back. I have tried low speeds (400-500 RPM) and high speeds as well (1500 RPM). I can eventually do it, but it takes forever (20 minutes instead of 2 for all the other tips).

I don't have a lot of experince with these tips, as I've only had a few guys who wanted them in the past. I would estimate I installed about 30 or 40 of them.

Is there a trick to these soft tips? Oh, I also have the same problem whether or not I press the tips in a vise before installing them.

Thanks,

Nick

Hi Nick,

I use a live center to hold the gluerd tip.. I use a collet in the jaws to protect the shaft, then glue the elk-master on, and use a con-caved live center to hold it in place. When I trim the sides, the live center is pushing against the top of the tip. After ther sides are done, I remove the live center, and shape the tip by hand, using a piece of 80 grit sand paper.

The speed is important also. I run my lathe wide open for this, about 2,000 rpm's. If i do this on my engine lathe, it's about 1,400. Much slower and takes more time, but works well also.

By doing tips this way, you never stretch the leather, or tear it and make a sponge out of it.

I've seen guys take and trim the tip down with a single point tool, and do fairly well. But for me, I don't stretch the tip. Works great.

Any time your trimming down the sides of the tip, your torking the tip, this is another reason I use the live center. It keeps from torking or twisting the tips end.
blud

 

[Jon]

Hi Nick,

I use a live center to hold the gluerd tip.. I use a collet in the jaws to protect the shaft, then glue the elk-master on, and use a con-caved live center to hold it in place. When I trim the sides, the live center is pushing against the top of the tip. After ther sides are done, I remove the live center, and shape the tip by hand, using a piece of 80 grit sand paper.

The speed is important also. I run my lathe wide open for this, about 2,000 rpm's. If i do this on my engine lathe, it's about 1,400. Much slower and takes more time, but works well also.

By doing tips this way, you never stretch the leather, or tear it and make a sponge out of it.

I've seen guys take and trim the tip down with a single point tool, and do fairly well. But for me, I don't stretch the tip. Works great.

Any time your trimming down the sides of the tip, your torking the tip, this is another reason I use the live center. It keeps from torking or twisting the tips end.
blud

And my advise would be,

Tell them you don't do elk masters...

That is what i do... then i convince them that a triangle is better, i've made some converts...

Thanks,

Jon

 

[iusedtoberich]

Thanks blud. I'll have to make a cup live center and try that. When you trim the sides, do you use a tool that is the width of the area to trim and plunge straight in, or do use a regular single point tool and cut from right to left? Thre reason I ask is unless you make the cup center smaller than the tip diameter, it will interfere with the side to side movement of the tool.

Do you use the same approach for the harder tips? I never have any problems with them (except for the occasionl lepro that would "explode").

Jon, I believe that is the wrong approach to take. You have to be proficient in anything a customer wants. And I believe many of the top players prefer the soft elk masters (from what I've heard).

 

[Jon]

Thanks blud. I'll have to make a cup live center and try that. When you trim the sides, do you use a tool that is the width of the area to trim and plunge straight in, or do use a regular single point tool and cut from right to left? Thre reason I ask is unless you make the cup center smaller than the tip diameter, it will interfere with the side to side movement of the tool.

Do you use the same approach for the harder tips? I never have any problems with them (except for the occasionl lepro that would "explode").

Jon, I believe that is the wrong approach to take. You have to be proficient in anything a customer wants. And I believe many of the top players prefer the soft elk masters (from what I've heard).

To me, no it isn't the wrong approach to take lol. I won't do elkmasters, or talisman, because of the problems you are asking about. And i don't do much repair work around here, there is a guy in town that takes care of that, and one about 30 miles away, that takes care of most of the others, the only people i service, are the ones that don't like the others lol... And i only stock what i use, which are triangles and moori's and i now have some stingrays and old (23 layer) herc's that a friend gave me for a new router bracket for his cuesmith...

Thanks,

Jon

 

[blud]

tool

Thanks blud. I'll have to make a cup live center and try that. When you trim the sides, do you use a tool that is the width of the area to trim and plunge straight in, or do use a regular single point tool and cut from right to left? Thre reason I ask is unless you make the cup center smaller than the tip diameter, it will interfere with the side to side movement of the tool.

Do you use the same approach for the harder tips? I never have any problems with them (except for the occasionl lepro that would "explode").

Jon, I believe that is the wrong approach to take. You have to be proficient in anything a customer wants. And I believe many of the top players prefer the soft elk masters (from what I've heard).

Hey Rich, Always machine the tip from the right to the left. Doing it this way you never stretch the leather away from it's base, and or twist it. Keep that tail stock pressure on the tip.

And yes, i do use a single point. just take small bites, and move slow. Make darn sure your point is really sharp.

I use this same method with all tips. Good habit to get into.

BYW, Elk-masters, is what Eferin uses. Buddy Hall likes them also, along with many more.

I also agree with what your saying to Jon, Rich.

Never dis-agree with a customer, however, if he ask something out of line, explain why and why not.

Speaking of cue-repair Jon, maybe you should do more of it.

It does several things for you as a new up coming cuemaker.

First, it teaches you other methods other cuermakers use, second, your building up your reputation as a cue-repairman and cuemakers all at the same time, and getting paid to do it.. Becoming popular is important within this industry. Being known and well liked and doing excellant repair work, goes a long ways towards your cuemaking goals.


Blud

 

[Joseph Cues]

Nick, did you pick up that mill yet?
Let us know.
Thanks.