Twine Specific for Cue Wrap

Biloxi Boy

Biloxi Boy

Man With A Golden Arm
Just trying to figure out the larger twine picture.

So, when I began shooting with custom pool cues, they were all wrapped, and the term employed to describe the twine was "linen". I occasionally ran into a "nylon" wrap. I read now that silk was used way back when. I am assuming the way it went down was somewhere along the line an unknown cue maker knew something about fishing: cue wraps are applied much like an eye is attached to a rod and it was just a short leap to pick up the spool of actual fishing line itself.
Anyone know the actual tale?

Another thing I wonder is what other twine was ever used beside Cortland? Was there ever a twine specifically manufactured or packaged for cues? On the other hand, there were also hundreds of other braided fishing lines beside Cortland, linen and otherwise. What alternatives were ever explored?

Did no one see the total loss of Cortland coming? The big, and small, cue manufacturers just sat by and let it happen? No one sounded the alarm? Hard to believe for such an important component.

Like everything else in pool's past, I will be surprised if we can develop a real history at this point, but someone has to know something, and it is important to preserve our past. I would like to buy some books or acquire articles specifically on the history and evolution of our most basic tool.

A little help, please.
 
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No direct comment and to the point of seeing an end coming...

Could it be that diamond's loss of dymondwood was predictable? Business that depend on single suppliers always face the risk of poof.

I don't know why Cortland disappeared but nobody saw value in making it.
 
And . . . where did all the color combinations come from? It was always white with green speck. I doubt the fishing folks used much of the others.
 
Biloxi Boy said:
Just trying to figure out the larger twine picture.

So, when I began shooting with custom pool cues, they were all wrapped, and the term employed to describe the twine was "linen". I occasionally ran into a "nylon" wrap. I read now that silk was used way back when. I am assuming the way it went down was somewhere along the line an unknown cue maker knew something about fishing: cue wraps are applied much like an eye is attached to a rod and it was just a short leap to pick up the spool of actual fishing line itself.
Anyone know the actual tale?

Another thing I wonder is what other twine was ever used beside Cortland? Was there ever a twine specifically manufactured or packaged for cues? On the other hand, there were also hundreds of other braided fishing lines beside Cortland, linen and otherwise. What alternatives were ever explored?

Did no one see the total loss of Cortland coming? The big, and small, cue manufacturers just sat by and let it happen? No one sounded the alarm? Hard to believe for such an important component.

Like everything else in pool's past, I will be surprised if we can develop a real history at this point, but someone has to know something, and it is important to preserve our past. I would like to buy some books or acquire articles specifically on the history and evolution of our most basic tool.

A little help, please.
Click to expand...
Linen is traditional and has been used because it absorbs sweat. Silk is a bad idea because silk is not supposed to get wet. Nylon is normally only used on very cheap cues because of price/availability. No serious cue maker would use nylon.
 
Here is what I remember concerning fishing line for cues. Cortland line was never used on a large mass scale for cues by production cue makers. Cortland was more utilized by a smaller group of custom cue makers and was never manufactured by the Cortland line company with the thought of being mass produced for cues- it was a fishing line by priority. The small number of cue makers using Cortland line for cues had no input into the viability of that specific fishing line from a manufacturing perspective. I do believe that the Penn fishing supply manufacturer also produced a fishing line used by some custom cue makers.
Nylon filament line became a more dominant fishing line for several economic and perhaps fisherman choice reasons. Nylon used on cue wraps was much more dominant due to economic factors as well. Many larger production cue house like McDermott offered nylon wraps on their cues, especially in their lower priced cues. However, there were some top players that did use nylon wraps on some of their cues, as they may have preferred a slicker feel to that wrap- I do recall that at least one of Ray Martin's Gus Szamboti cues did have a nylon wrap as original. I do not believe that all of Ray's Szamboti cues had a nylon wrap - I personally handled one that was a linen wrap- it may have been changed by the new owner- not sure.
The sheer volume of cues being made during the post Hustler movie pool boom 1961 to 1968 brought on the search for a more economical high production cue wrap- so nylon just fit the bill at that point. Honestly, only guys who were really into pool had the playing experience to truly develop a preference for a certain type of wrap - most novice players had no idea about wrap differences and just bought what was affordable and available at the time.
 
I now see Atlas has a "genuine Irish linen wrap . . . Handwoven in County Cork, Ireland, from 100% European flax." This being the case, I am wondering how it differs from Cortland if at all.
 
mikemosconi said:
Here is what I remember concerning fishing line for cues. Cortland line was never used on a large mass scale for cues by production cue makers. Cortland was more utilized by a smaller group of custom cue makers and was never manufactured by the Cortland line company with the thought of being mass produced for cues- it was a fishing line by priority. The small number of cue makers using Cortland line for cues had no input into the viability of that specific fishing line from a manufacturing perspective. I do believe that the Penn fishing supply manufacturer also produced a fishing line used by some custom cue makers.
Nylon filament line became a more dominant fishing line for several economic and perhaps fisherman choice reasons. Nylon used on cue wraps was much more dominant due to economic factors as well. Many larger production cue house like McDermott offered nylon wraps on their cues, especially in their lower priced cues. However, there were some top players that did use nylon wraps on some of their cues, as they may have preferred a slicker feel to that wrap- I do recall that at least one of Ray Martin's Gus Szamboti cues did have a nylon wrap as original. I do not believe that all of Ray's Szamboti cues had a nylon wrap - I personally handled one that was a linen wrap- it may have been changed by the new owner- not sure.
The sheer volume of cues being made during the post Hustler movie pool boom 1961 to 1968 brought on the search for a more economical high production cue wrap- so nylon just fit the bill at that point. Honestly, only guys who were really into pool had the playing experience to truly develop a preference for a certain type of wrap - most novice players had no idea about wrap differences and just bought what was affordable and available at the time.
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Interesting, I'd also say nylon was a novelty in that era and didn't have the same bad image as it does now.
 
Catalin said:
Interesting, I'd also say nylon was a novelty in that era and didn't have the same bad image as it does now.
Click to expand...
Nylon as it relates to pool cue wraps was more of an economics decision than it was a decision to introduce a novelty to the cue manufacturing process. Nylon as a man made substance contributed hugely to our success in winning WWII - the Japanese had cut off silk supplies - parachutes, ropes, and hundreds of military related items utilized nylon as a very durable substitute. The ties to our Japanese enemies that silk itself implied was not forgotten easily by American manufacturers after the war and silk lost favor that has never been recovered even beyond the economic benefits of man made polymers.
 
My hands don't sweat and i've had a couple nylon-wrapped Vikings that i really liked. I can't stand IL and now either go wrapless/cork/leather. IMO cork is the nuts, best felling wrap out there. Bitch to keep clean but it feels great.
 
mikemosconi said:
Nylon as it relates to pool cue wraps was more of an economics decision than it was a decision to introduce a novelty to the cue manufacturing process. Nylon as a man made substance contributed hugely to our success in winning WWII - the Japanese had cut off silk supplies - parachutes, ropes, and hundreds of military related items utilized nylon as a very durable substitute. The ties to our Japanese enemies that silk itself implied was not forgotten easily by American manufacturers after the war and silk lost favor that has never been recovered even beyond the economic benefits of man made polymers.
Click to expand...
C'mon, man everybody loves silk.
Screenshot_20250130-103227.jpg
 
Biloxi Boy said:
Just trying to figure out the larger twine picture.

So, when I began shooting with custom pool cues, they were all wrapped, and the term employed to describe the twine was "linen". I occasionally ran into a "nylon" wrap. I read now that silk was used way back when. I am assuming the way it went down was somewhere along the line an unknown cue maker knew something about fishing: cue wraps are applied much like an eye is attached to a rod and it was just a short leap to pick up the spool of actual fishing line itself.
Anyone know the actual tale?

Another thing I wonder is what other twine was ever used beside Cortland? Was there ever a twine specifically manufactured or packaged for cues? On the other hand, there were also hundreds of other braided fishing lines beside Cortland, linen and otherwise. What alternatives were ever explored?

Did no one see the total loss of Cortland coming? The big, and small, cue manufacturers just sat by and let it happen? No one sounded the alarm? Hard to believe for such an important component.

Like everything else in pool's past, I will be surprised if we can develop a real history at this point, but someone has to know something, and it is important to preserve our past. I would like to buy some books or acquire articles specifically on the history and evolution of our most basic tool.

A little help, please.
Click to expand...
Linen wrap for cues started out as fishing line. I always mix up the colours, but I believe green spec was for salt water and blue spec was for fresh water fishing.
 
mikemosconi said:
Here is what I remember concerning fishing line for cues. Cortland line was never used on a large mass scale for cues by production cue makers. Cortland was more utilized by a smaller group of custom cue makers and was never manufactured by the Cortland line company with the thought of being mass produced for cues- it was a fishing line by priority. The small number of cue makers using Cortland line for cues had no input into the viability of that specific fishing line from a manufacturing perspective. I do believe that the Penn fishing supply manufacturer also produced a fishing line used by some custom cue makers.
Nylon filament line became a more dominant fishing line for several economic and perhaps fisherman choice reasons. Nylon used on cue wraps was much more dominant due to economic factors as well. Many larger production cue house like McDermott offered nylon wraps on their cues, especially in their lower priced cues. However, there were some top players that did use nylon wraps on some of their cues, as they may have preferred a slicker feel to that wrap- I do recall that at least one of Ray Martin's Gus Szamboti cues did have a nylon wrap as original. I do not believe that all of Ray's Szamboti cues had a nylon wrap - I personally handled one that was a linen wrap- it may have been changed by the new owner- not sure.
The sheer volume of cues being made during the post Hustler movie pool boom 1961 to 1968 brought on the search for a more economical high production cue wrap- so nylon just fit the bill at that point. Honestly, only guys who were really into pool had the playing experience to truly develop a preference for a certain type of wrap - most novice players had no idea about wrap differences and just bought what was affordable and available at the time.
Click to expand...
I have Rays Szam with the black wrap. I was talking to Barry about that wrap recently. It came off of a spool that “is most likely nylon” as Ray wanted something slicker than cortland. That spool is huge and it was only used on that one cue. The spool is still in the shop.

I’ll get pics today(good timing) of the cue and post them here of the wrap-up close. It’s not normal nylon and not linen. It’s its own thing. I’ve seen the spool years ago. Can’t recall if it had a label on it.

That cue plays so nice, one of the best hitting Gus’s ever imo.

Best
Fatboy 😃
 
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I am not at all sure where I heard or read this, or even if it is in any way true. But here it goes.

Supposedly one of the cue makers had a shop in Chicago on State Street, several blocks south of Marshall Field department store but still in the Loop. (Rambo?) His shop was near an Ambercrombie and Fitch store on the same street.

(NOTE: The Abercrombie and Fitch I am speaking of here was not at all like the retailer with that name now. It was a high end outfitter which sold equipment to wealthy people who wanted to hunt or fish. Think Cabela’s or Orvis but several notches above. I was actually browsing in this store once and still have a wonderful traveling chess set I bought on that occasion.)

According to the information floating in my head, the cue maker went into that store and bought fishing line to wrap his cues.
 
Fatboy said:
I have Rays Szam with the black wrap. I was talking to Barry about that wrap recently. It came off of a spool that “is most likely nylon” as Ray wanted something slicker than cortland. That spool is huge and it was only used on that one cue. The spool is still in the shop.

I’ll get pics today(good timing) of the cue and post them here of the wrap-up close. It’s not normal nylon and not linen. It’s its own thing. I’ve seen the spool years ago. Can’t recall if it had a label on it.

That cue plays so nice, one of the best hitting Gus’s ever imo.

Best
Fatboy 😃
Click to expand...
Yes the nylon wrap Gus cue owned by Ray that I saw was black in color👍👍
 
I believe Blue Mountain irish linen was another popular brand used for cues. Not sure when they came around I think the 60s or 70s.
 
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